Conservatives in America treat liberals like Ninevites? What of grace?

[revolutionist90]

 

I am conservative. I don't think those are unpardonable sins but I do think in a more secular sense they cause more harm than good. For example, a person who believes babies are blood sucking parasites and believe that should be killed after birth does seem like a sin but they can change. The problem is that people who believe that way are normally liberal. And just to flip the coin liberals don't treat conservatives all that nice either. Many liberals just think conservatives are just plain evil and arrogant so let's not generalize and victimize. I mean have you been on a college campus and tried to rally for pro-life...you would be lucky if all the other people was destroy your boards. And let's not forget the rapid pro-evolution science crowd at many universities who can group together enough to ban a person from getting a job. 

 

I think the bigger question is why do we put politics before the person in general and treat them badly. And that goes for liberals and conservatives. 

 

I agree the topics I listed cause more harm than good.

I guess my thing is regardless of how "liberals" act I should treat them in a loving manner. Particularly since I'm a Believer and many who claim that world view are not - particularly atheists, agnostics, etc. I believe as a Christian it is also important to learn to agree to disagree in a peaceful, respectful manner IMO.

I think your last two sentences really hit the nail on the head of the issue Rev.

God bless,

GE

 

I would think even the most mature Christians have a hard time treating their enemies with love. It is a challenge to embrace something with love whose political/social opinions might actually entail harm to you due to your belief. It is difficult to treat a person who is abrasive to you in a loving manner and that is most of my experiences with liberals (then again my liberal peers are immature college students so maybe adults are different?). The difficulty increases immensly when the person who has a different worldview (atheist) cannot agree to disagree and tries to sabotage another person's happiness who has a different view on things (i.e creationism vs. evolution). It is simply difficult to love thine enemy and I think it takes an enormous deal of maturity and a close/serious relationship with God to love someone who is an active enemy. 

[Guest shiloh357]

I believe that we should try to find commonality. Therefore, this thread here:

 

 

 

What commonality?  Modern social liberalism stands opposed to the bedrock core positions and doctrines of the faith.  Liberalsm rejects the infallibility, immutability and plenary inspiration of Scripture (how's that for basics of the Christian faith?).  They reject the biblical definition and model for marriage and the family, which is the basis for any healthy and prosperous society.  Most of the social agendas that liberalism supports like abortion and gay marriage demonstrate their rejection of God's model for marriage and family.  That's a core and basic teaching of the faith.

 

BTW - Salvation issues are not the only basics of the Christian faith and given that most liberals reject the teachings and authority of the Bible on basic, fundamental level, It is unlikely that you will find any real liberal who will accept the basics of the faith.  There are far, far more basics of the faith that have nothing to do with getting saved.

 

Liberal scholars like Marcus Borg teach that it doesn't really matter if Jesus is risen from the dead or not.   How is that not an attack on the basics of the Chrsitian faith?   Paul tells us that the resurrection of Jesus is the lynch pin for Christianity and everything stands or falls on it.  The ressurection of Jesus is the vindication of everything the Bible teaches.   Yet liberal scholars (Weissmann, Bultmann, etc.) have, for generations, rejected need for a resurrection.  

 

With all due respect, I think there is a lack of knowledge here as to the kinds of serious threats that modern social liberalism holds for the Christian faith.  We can't simply ignnore what they say and look for lip service around what we call "the basics of the Christian faith."  I have already begun to show the kinds of "basics" that they reject.  They reject the Christian faith on a basic and fundamental level when they reject the absolute and immutable authority of Scripture.  

 

When the Bible never means what is says, when biblical history is changed to allegory or fiction, when God is rejected as the author of Scripture, when the Bible is suddenly found to being subject to the judgments and criticisms of fallible little men with an atheistic chip on their shoulder, there is no commonality.

 

No one is threatening liberals, no one is mistreating them  or defaming them.  But neither are we coddling their ideology when it comes to discrediting the Bible every time it contradicts what they are not prepared to accept.  I don't think frank and fair honesty means that we are some how "unloving."   What i see are people who, when they can't actually get what they want from us, resort to playing the victim, as if our refusal to compromise with them makes us harsh and unforgiving.

[revolutionist90]

GoldenEagle- maybe there is a difference between political liberalism and liberal Christians? What type of liberal are you referring to?

[Guest shiloh357]

GoldenEagle- maybe there is a difference between political liberalism and liberal Christians? What type of liberal are you referring to?

What's the difference?  Social liberals can be both political liberals as well as baptized members in good standing in mainstream churches all over the United States. 

[Elhanan]

 Sometimes grace is called for and at other times we employ the admonition of Matt 7:6:  “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."  Each situation/scenario is different and therefore requires us to exercise discernment & discretion.

[GoldenEagle]

I don't think anyone is treating those things as either salvation issues or unpardonable sins, per se.  

In the past couple of months simply here on the boards people who have conservative (Scripturally or Politically/socially speaking) have attacked/questioned the faith of those who believe in socialism, evolution, and that homosexuality isn't a sin.

That isn't even taking into account other social media (facebook, myspace, etc.) or real life encounters I've had.

I simply have an issue with treating non-salvation issues as salvation issues. God is able, willing, and active in the lives of those around us. Why do we think that bluntly speaking the truth (without love or grace) will somehow convince others they are wrong?

These are the kind of things I'm struggling to understand.

 

God bless,

GE

[revolutionist90]

 

GoldenEagle- maybe there is a difference between political liberalism and liberal Christians? What type of liberal are you referring to?

What's the difference?  Social liberals can be both political liberals as well as baptized members in good standing in mainstream churches all over the United States. 

 

I know many peers who have the "Church and State separate" drilled into their skull so they have a political belief of "Let everyone do what they want" due to the general animosity that they have experienced for their Christian beliefs. So they could be very much against abortion but to not be viewed as  "judgmental" they do not vote according to their beliefs. Many also state that their own children in the future would not have abortions even though they support others getting abortions. They still are a little conservative but vote extremely liberal since their political views go along with whatever society says. 

[GoldenEagle]

Flesh wars against flesh but the spiritual man wars against the spiritual. I think we see liberal's agendas and mistake them for the enemy.

 

The enemy is the destroyer.

The enemy is Satan and his fallen angels. Every person we encounter is a potential heir to God in Christ - if they repent, turn from their sins, and confess Jesus Christ is Lord. Jesus paid an incredible price on the cross for our sins around 2000 years ago. Why do we feel we have to "put people in their place" when it comes to those with a more liberal mindset?

The enemy uses the liberal agenda to further his own agenda. But I would also say that the enemy can use the ultra conservative (legalism) agenda to further his own agenda as well.

 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Unfortunately, I need to go. Please continue the discussion. I'll try to catch up later.

[revolutionist90]

 

I don't think anyone is treating those things as either salvation issues or unpardonable sins, per se.  

In the past couple of months simply here on the boards people who have conservative (Scripturally or Politically/socially speaking) have attacked/questioned the faith of those who believe in socialism, evolution, and that homosexuality isn't a sin.

That isn't even taking into account other social media (facebook, myspace, etc.) or real life encounters I've had.

I simply have an issue with treating non-salvation issues as salvation issues. God is able, willing, and active in the lives of those around us. Why do we think that bluntly speaking the truth (without love or grace) will somehow convince others they are wrong?

These are the kind of things I'm struggling to understand.

 

God bless,

GE

 

Will I be rude to a person? No. But when a person says they support abortion and don't believe homosexuality is a sin then I do question if they believe in God since many liberal positions are supported by atheist/agnostics/just non-Christian religions. I don't think questioning if a person is a Christian based on their political/social beliefs is questioning their salvation. If they are saved then they are saved and to be saved you must believe in Christ (thus are a Christian). Also homosexuality is a sin, murder is a sin, adultery is a sin- those things are blunt because they are stated in scripture quite bluntly. I don't know how I am suppose to sugarcoat homosexuality not being a sin or afterbirth abortion not being a sin. I can say that those who believe those things can be changed but I have to state why they are wrong before the person changes. 

Also some people just don't like others calling things a sin. They don't like others calling something that they do wrong in general. You call abortion/homosexuality a sin and they immediately show their own pride- no matter how gentle a person claims it is a sin. Also if the sin is normalized into society (like with homosexuality) calling it a sin will automatically cause a closing of ears- but it is the truth. The truth hurts.

Also those who vehemntly support Socialism (Lenin, Marx), Evolution (Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris), Homosexuality (Dan Savage) are generally very anti-Christian. When a person associates with a viewpoint that is greatly anti-Christian it brings their position on whether or not they have accepted Christ into question (just like a person who dresses like a gang member can bring question to their motives). And the only way to hopefully change their position is to show scripture and illustrate how their beliefs can be harmful if continued to believe. I think it is difficult to use honey with the internet since it is so difficult to judge emotions.