Who is groaning? Understanding Romans 8:26

[other one]

A few people seem to interpret this verse as the Holy Spirit groaning on their behalf in their prayers to God.

 

well, i don't know about your Bible, but all nine of mine say that it is the Spirit that is groaning, and the context is saying that there just aren't words to express it.

 

If you've never had the spirit speak with/through your mouth/tongue you probably shouldn't discuss it in depth.

[Knowingtruth]

The Holy Spirit is groaning.For those who are into speaking in tongues that is your choice to do so but please do not convince me to.It is just not my cup of tea.

 

Pray that the Holy Spirit to convince you!

[Knowingtruth]

 

 

 

KT

 

 

You really don't how some wrestle with God through prayer.  We groan because we cannot adequately pray,  The HS groans for us because we cannot adequately pray.  His groaning is part of His intercessory.   Scripture says He the HS groans.  Believe it.

 

 

Why should I believe something that blasphemy the Holy Spirit?

 

 

 

KT

 

No blasphemy.

 

Rom 8:26 - In the same way the Spirit helps us in our weakness.  We do not know what we ought to pray for, BUT the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Please read reply no.5

[Knowingtruth]

 

 

 

KT

 

 

You really don't how some wrestle with God through prayer.  We groan because we cannot adequately pray,  The HS groans for us because we cannot adequately pray.  His groaning is part of His intercessory.   Scripture says He the HS groans.  Believe it.

 

 

Why should I believe something that blasphemy the Holy Spirit?

 

 

I would be very careful saying scripture itself is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. In fact, that is impossible. If you don't want to accept scripture, that is your choice, but making statements like that will do no less then grieve the Spirit.

 

I am speaking of misleading interpretation on Scripture. Yes, one can grieve Him, not make Him groan!

 

 

In the many years I have studied this, I have come to realize that there are some who will right out refuse to accept tongues even if the Spirit Himself moved them to speak in such. They have set their feet so firmly in disbelief to the point of even referring to speaking in tongues as demonic.

 

I am not disclaiming the speaking of known tongue moved by the Holy Spirit that does not require an interpreter. What was happening is Corinth was speaking of unknown tongue moved by person's spirit.

 

If you don't believe, as it has been said, then don't. By judging others for how they themselves are led by God, denying parts of scripture in doing so, you are causing more discord then you realize. Nobody is forcing you to accept any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and do realize that it is the Holy Spirit who gives out the gifts, not Paul.

 

Right. But the person is using that with the help of his spirit, not the Holy Spirit who has no part to play once the gift is given for common good.

[Knowingtruth]

 

A few people seem to interpret this verse as the Holy Spirit groaning on their behalf in their prayers to God.

 

well, i don't know about your Bible, but all nine of mine say that it is the Spirit that is groaning, and the context is saying that there just aren't words to express it.

 

If you've never had the spirit speak with/through your mouth/tongue you probably shouldn't discuss it in depth.

 

 

Do you think the Holy Spirit will be short of words like a mortal man?

 

If you've never had the spirit speak with/through your mouth/tongue you probably shouldn't discuss it in depth.

 

I have never had my spirit motivating me to speak in an unknown tongue. I am only questioning the claim that the Holy Spirit speaks an unknown tongue which is not recorded by Paul.

[other one]

 

 

A few people seem to interpret this verse as the Holy Spirit groaning on their behalf in their prayers to God.

 

well, i don't know about your Bible, but all nine of mine say that it is the Spirit that is groaning, and the context is saying that there just aren't words to express it.

 

If you've never had the spirit speak with/through your mouth/tongue you probably shouldn't discuss it in depth.

 

 

Do you think the Holy Spirit will be short of words like a mortal man?

 

If you've never had the spirit speak with/through your mouth/tongue you probably shouldn't discuss it in depth.

 

I have never had my spirit motivating me to speak in an unknown tongue. I am only questioning the claim that the Holy Spirit speaks an unknown tongue which is not recorded by Paul.

 

 

well I can personally testify that he does, and when he wakes you up in the middle of the night praying for someone in trouble it isn't always a pleasant experience.  It can be very intense.  It's also been my experience that sometimes what you pray for isn't always any of your business, but for some reason the prayer is necessary.

 

[Knowingtruth]

 

 

 

A few people seem to interpret this verse as the Holy Spirit groaning on their behalf in their prayers to God.

 

well, i don't know about your Bible, but all nine of mine say that it is the Spirit that is groaning, and the context is saying that there just aren't words to express it.

 

If you've never had the spirit speak with/through your mouth/tongue you probably shouldn't discuss it in depth.

 

 

Do you think the Holy Spirit will be short of words like a mortal man?

 

If you've never had the spirit speak with/through your mouth/tongue you probably shouldn't discuss it in depth.

 

I have never had my spirit motivating me to speak in an unknown tongue. I am only questioning the claim that the Holy Spirit speaks an unknown tongue which is not recorded by Paul.

 

 

well I can personally testify that he does, and when he wakes you up in the middle of the night praying for someone in trouble it isn't always a pleasant experience.  It can be very intense.  It's also been my experience that sometimes what you pray for isn't always any of your business, but for some reason the prayer is necessary.

 

 

 

 I am not disputing this. But that doesn't answer the subject of my topic in the OP.

[GoldenEagle]

Cleaned up quotes on this thread... Again.

 

God bless,

GE

[OneLight]

I would be very careful saying scripture itself is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. In fact, that is impossible. If you don't want to accept scripture, that is your choice, but making statements like that will do no less then grieve the Spirit.

 

I am speaking of misleading interpretation on Scripture. Yes, one can grieve Him, not make Him groan!

I have found no place in scripture where it said people made the Holy Spirit groan. In fact, it says the Holy Spirit Himself did the groaning, so your premise is derived from an error you are making and your argument is based on this error.

 

 

In the many years I have studied this, I have come to realize that there are some who will right out refuse to accept tongues even if the Spirit Himself moved them to speak in such. They have set their feet so firmly in disbelief to the point of even referring to speaking in tongues as demonic.

 

I am not disclaiming the speaking of known tongue moved by the Holy Spirit that does not require an interpreter. What was happening is Corinth was speaking of unknown tongue moved by person's spirit.

The fact is, scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit gives gifts according to His will. If He gives a gift of tongues, be it a known or unknown tongue, it is His will to do so. When ones operated in the gift of prophecy, are they doing this with their own spirit of are they guided by God? What about the gift of healing? Does that come from the person or from God. You cannot separate on gift from the others and claim it is different. People are moved by the Spirit to operate within a gift.

 

 

If you don't believe, as it has been said, then don't. By judging others for how they themselves are led by God, denying parts of scripture in doing so, you are causing more discord then you realize. Nobody is forcing you to accept any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and do realize that it is the Holy Spirit who gives out the gifts, not Paul.

 

Right. But the person is using that with the help of his spirit, not the Holy Spirit who has no part to play once the gift is given for common good.

That is incorrect. See my questions above ... where do the operations within the gift come from. Does the spirit of man have the ability to heal, prophesy, perform miracles, or use the gift of knowledge? Read the passage below. Scripture does not separate any of the gifts as these are from God and these are from man. That is the error you are walking in.

1 Corinthians 12:1-11

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

The italics and underlining are mine to point you to the truth in scripture.

[Knowingtruth]

 

 

 

 

I would be very careful saying scripture itself is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. In fact, that is impossible. If you don't want to accept scripture, that is your choice, but making statements like that will do no less then grieve the Spirit.

 
I am speaking of misleading interpretation on Scripture. Yes, one can grieve Him, not make Him groan!

 

I have found no place in scripture where it said people made the Holy Spirit groan. In fact, it says the Holy Spirit Himself did the groaning, so your premise is derived from an error you are making and your argument is based on this error.
 
 

 

In the many years I have studied this, I have come to realize that there are some who will right out refuse to accept tongues even if the Spirit Himself moved them to speak in such. They have set their feet so firmly in disbelief to the point of even referring to speaking in tongues as demonic.

 
I am not disclaiming the speaking of known tongue moved by the Holy Spirit that does not require an interpreter. What was happening is Corinth was speaking of unknown tongue moved by person's spirit.

 

The fact is, scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit gives gifts according to His will. If He gives a gift of tongues, be it a known or unknown tongue, it is His will to do so. When ones operated in the gift of prophecy, are they doing this with their own spirit of are they guided by God? What about the gift of healing? Does that come from the person or from God. You cannot separate on gift from the others and claim it is different. People are moved by the Spirit to operate within a gift.
 
 

 

If you don't believe, as it has been said, then don't. By judging others for how they themselves are led by God, denying parts of scripture in doing so, you are causing more discord then you realize. Nobody is forcing you to accept any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and do realize that it is the Holy Spirit who gives out the gifts, not Paul.

 
Right. But the person is using that with the help of his spirit, not the Holy Spirit who has no part to play once the gift is given for common good.

 

That is incorrect. See my questions above ... where do the operations within the gift come from. Does the spirit of man have the ability to heal, prophesy, perform miracles, or use the gift of knowledge? Read the passage below. Scripture does not separate any of the gifts as these are from God and these are from man. That is the error you are walking in.

1 Corinthians 12:1-11

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

The italics and underlining are mine to point you to the truth in scripture.

 

 

What I mean is that  it may be translation problems. Why should the Holy Spirit, knower of all languages, groan? Is He short of words? Please remember Paul's writings have been distorted by many right from his time. Will not that degrade the Holy Spirit by such an understanding when it is not supported anywhere else in the Bible?
 

Gifts are given for common good. It will have direct effect on receiver by the giver. In case of unknown tongue so such direct result takes place. An interpreter is brought in. No where God works on an agent's agent. He deals directly through one person chosen for that purpose. All prophecies need to be verified. What kind of check is made in case of interpretaton? Any word of God cannot go as a waste, but it happens when there is no interpretation. That contradicts the ways of God.

 

You are belittling in that case the advice of Paul to seek greater gifts.

Edited August 20, 2013 by GoldenEagle
<<< To fix quotes and read members post >>>