Does God DESIRE to save everyone?

[RustyAngeL]

Right God does not wish for anyone to parish.  His heart if for His creation but it's up to us to reach out for Him.  I pray for revival for this nation.  

[Hall7]

...............

[Elhanan]

Judging from the posts submitted, it seems that a commonly held view is the belief that God predestines people to salvation based on his foreknowledge of those individuals whom he knew would choose to believe in him. In other words he elects those to salvation based upon man’s free will to choose him. However many verses in Scripture indicate otherwise.  We didn’t choose God – he chose us first – before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4-5 “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…” He chose us based on his good pleasure, his will; not on our choice.   Romans 9:15-16 states, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion. It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.” 

If one accepts that God alone is the one who chooses those to be saved based solely upon his sovereign will, then it is certainly reasonable and acceptable for DRS81 to ask how a merciful God can then consign millions of souls to an eternal punishment in hell particularly since they had no choice in the matter to begin with.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Elhanan

[Guest DRS81]

Those are important scriptures to study Elhanan. Good work. I kept reading on, and I found something interesting, the word mystery. I think it's important to understand the word mystery and what they mean by it. God is certainly a mystery, but there is indeed a deeper meaning behind this word when discussing the God of creation. Notice it says the mystery of his will. Very interesting stuff here..Eph 1:9-11 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. 11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
 

However, I'm still struggling with the question of why and the word "predestined". If he knows and predestines who will go to hell even before they're born and knowing that he DOESN'T take pleasure in this, then why create the unbelievers in the first place. I find this baffling. Doesn't it seem like God is torturing himself? It's healthy to ask questions. That's all I'm doing here. I'm hoping to go deeper into the mystery. - David

[kenyamamoto]

Whatever God wants = He gets.

 

Except for man. It is true that God is in control over anything but not with our choice. He can be in control in our lives only if we let Him. Even if God wants everyone to be saved, He will not get it, or it will not happen if we don't want to be saved. 

[Elhanan]

Those are important scriptures to study Elhanan. Good work. I kept reading on, and I found something interesting, the word mystery. I think it's important to understand the word mystery and what they mean by it. God is certainly a mystery, but there is indeed a deeper meaning behind this word when discussing the God of creation. Notice it says the mystery of his will. Very interesting stuff here..Eph 1:9-11 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. 11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.

 

However, I'm still struggling with the question of why and the word "predestined". If he knows and predestines who will go to hell even before they're born and knowing that he DOESN'T take pleasure in this, then why create the unbelievers in the first place. I find this baffling. Doesn't it seem like God is torturing himself? It's healthy to ask questions. That's all I'm doing here. I'm hoping to go deeper into the mystery. - David

I think the text/context of these verses itself provide you with the answers you are searching for.  To paraphrase: The mystery of his will, according to God's plan, in the fullness of time is to unite all things in him.  In other words the mystery is that in the fullness of time, God will predestine all things to unity under Christ.  Also known as apokatastasis or the "restoration of all things." 

[Guest]

If God predestine's his children....

 

 

Predestined ~ Believe

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

 

Predestined ~ Believe And Be Saved

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25

 

Predestined ~ Believe And Be Saved

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

Predestined ~ Believe And Be Saved

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

 

Predestined ~ Believe And Be Saved

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

 

Predestined ~ Believe And Be Saved

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[kwikphilly]

God Bless you Bopeep,
          I was referring to the King James Version....Acts13:29
(And when they had fulfilled all that was written of Him,they took Him down from the tree ,and laid Him in a sepulchre)

          Tree is also used  in Galatians Chapter 3 the Greek "xulon"is used in both Acts and Gal...meaning tree), Matthew and Mark use stauros(greek -cross,stake,post)and therefore we read''cross"

           Honestly,sister,I refer to both and at this time that is the verse that came into my mind....there is much contraversy  as to whether or not it was a tree or a cross but personally I know He was nailed through His hands and His feet and so it is not an issue for me. I do think it was a cross because  Matthew says so and he was the eyewitness who gave a first hand account,but thats just me

          I did not want you to think I was ignoring your question(lol)and I do apologize for going way off topic

                                                                                                                                   In Christ,Kwik

[Elhanan]

 

Whatever God wants = He gets.

 

Except for man. It is true that God is in control over anything but not with our choice. He can be in control in our lives only if we let Him. Even if God wants everyone to be saved, He will not get it, or it will not happen if we don't want to be saved. 

 

So to extend your argument further, you subscribe to the idea of God having unlimited love but limited power as he stands by and watches millions upon millions of people damn themselves to hell.  Our heavenly father is greater than our earthly father yet your idea of God would be like a father who instructs his child not to jump in the deep end of a pool because the child cannot swim, yet when the child disobeys his father, the father stands by and does nothing to save his child’s life allowing the child to suffer death owing to the consequences of disobedience.  Surely any loving earthly father would rescue their child (even a stranger would).  Would not God who loves us more than our own fathers do the same?

At the other end of the spectrum, God possesses unlimited power but limited love.  God is totally in charge and chooses some to salvation and by default consigns most to hell.             

 

[kenyamamoto]

 

 

 

Whatever God wants = He gets.

 

Except for man. It is true that God is in control over anything but not with our choice. He can be in control in our lives only if we let Him. Even if God wants everyone to be saved, He will not get it, or it will not happen if we don't want to be saved. 

 

So to extend your argument further, you subscribe to the idea of God having unlimited love but limited power as he stands by and watches millions upon millions of people damn themselves to hell.  Our heavenly father is greater than our earthly father yet your idea of God would be like a father who instructs his child not to jump in the deep end of a pool because the child cannot swim, yet when the child disobeys his father, the father stands by and does nothing to save his child’s life allowing the child to suffer death owing to the consequences of disobedience.  Surely any loving earthly father would rescue their child (even a stranger would).  Would not God who loves us more than our own fathers do the same?

At the other end of the spectrum, God possesses unlimited power but limited love.  God is totally in charge and chooses some to salvation and by default consigns most to hell.             

 

 

You are absolutely right, Elhanan. As painful as it may seem, God will let His 'child' to suffer death because the child chooses to disobey his Father. This is what happened to our first parents Adam and Eve. God loves Man so much that he prepared all of the things that he will need before his existence. But with His unlimited power, God let the consequences affect Man which is death. This is what we called 'free will'. This makes us unique from all God's creation. God does not interfere in our choices. Although He is more than willing to guide us in our choices if we let Him lead our lives. 

 

Although we can sometimes compare God and our earthly father on love and fatherhood, but we can't totally compare them always. God is way beyond our understanding. We must not try to understand all of His works or else we will only questioning His will. This is called Faith. Just because we don't understand His will or it doesn't met our standard doesn't mean He is wrong and irrational. God will remain God whether we accept it or not. After all, He is God. He is the Creator and the Owner. He makes His own rules. Who are we to question Him? But I'm not worrying about injustice because I know He is just and perfect, way smarter than I am.