Does God DESIRE to save everyone?

[Butch5]

Hi butch,

 

Still says the same thing, the principal is the same for Gnostic or any other heresy. Those who belong to Christ will not leave.

 

KJV

 

1Jo 2:19  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

MKJV

 

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they were of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out so that it might be revealed that they were not all of us.

 

NET BIBLE

 

19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us, because if they had belonged to us, they would have remained[53] with us. But[54] they went out from us[55] to demonstrate[56] that all of them do not belong to us.[57]

1 John 2:19 (NET1)

53 tn See note on the translation of the Greek verb μένω (menō) in 2:6. Here μένω has been translated as “remained” since it is clear that a change of status or position is involved. The opponents departed from the author's congregation(s) and showed by this departure that they never really belonged. Had they really belonged, they would have stayed (“remained”).

—NET Bible Notes - First Edition

 

 

Also word order or not it still says the same thing.

 

TNTActs 13:48 The getyls hearde and were glad and glorified the worde of the Lorde and beleved: even as many as were ordeyned vnto eternall lyfe. (Act 13:48 TNT)

 

KJV

 

Ac 13:48  And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

MKJV

 

48 And hearing, the nations rejoiced and glorified the Word of the Lord. And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

NET BIBLE

 

48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began to rejoice[181] and praise[182] the word of the Lord, and all who had been appointed for eternal life[183] believed

Acts 13:48 (NET1)

 

Your mistake is to think that I don’t believe in free will. The Bible teaches both even if we haven’t figured out how they work together: at least I don’t deny any part of the Bible so my own feelings can be satisfied.

 

The Bible is for true Christians. We don’t need someone who thinks they are educated to change the natural understanding of words in favor of their understanding.

This is what watchtower society tries to do. At least they were smart enough to make their own Bible so they could eliminate questions from their followers and the unlearned.

 

I believe that anyone who thinks that they can do a better job at translating the Scriptures then what we have now should do it.

 

 

God bless,

Tony

The passage from 1 John doesn't say those who believe in Christ won't leave. John says the one who were trying to seduce his readers went out from them because they were not of them.

 

Regarding Acts 13:48, remember, the Greek text didn't have punctuation. So, no it doesn't necessarily say the same thing. Besides as I pointed out verse 46 contradicts the Calvinist interpretation of verse 48 unless one believes that there are two methods of salvation. That being that the Jews got choose but the Gentiles don't.

 

You said the Bible teaches both. But the Bible doesn't teach contradictions, so if we have them there is something we don't understand. You see, I haven't denied any of the Bible, what I've done is rid myself of the doctrines that men have to manipulate the Scriptures. By doing so I am able to reconcile these things that seem to be at odds with each other. You see predestination and free will are completely compatible when you understand what the Scriptures are saying about them. However, when people reject what the Scriptures say because they don't line up with what someone was taught they wind up with contradictions.

 

What is telling about Ephesians 1 is a good example. The Calvinist uses Ephesians 1 to prove that free will plays no role in salvation. However, what I said about the passage fits the grammar, it fits the context, it fits the historical understanding of the passage and it reconciles free will and predestination. It shows that the passage in fact doesn't prove the free will plays no role in salvation.

[asper]

Hi butch,

 

I already showed you plenty of evidence on eph, chapter 1, but you just ignore it. Then you state your opinions as if they were facts. But your answers don’t make any sense. So why should I bother to continue?

 

Somehow you think that you know more then the scholars that translated the Bible into English.

From what I have seen you do not.

 

The method you are using is cult like.

Ignoring or making light of other people’s responses is a pretty old tactic of making them question their logic. And then you keep repeating the illogical and changing God’s Word till it starts to make sense.

Is that what happened to you?

 

I have seen this before. It is like talking to a zombie.

 

The only response to that tactic is the traditional one.

 

 I believe God and His Word.

 

 

God bless,

Tony

[Julio191]

I think God has put the means for salvation by the shedding of the blood of our Lord Jesuschrist. It is therefore His desire that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth 1Timothy 2v3-4. But from experience we all know that not all will accept Gods invitation to reconciliation.

I certainly believe in predestination. God knows who is going to be saved, we dont and therefore we have to preach to every creature and leave the Holy Spirit do His work on people. In any case God will be glorified whatever we do or decide. He can draw children from stones!! Blessings Julio191

[Floatingaxe]

I'm defending the belief that God does not predestine his children,

that he loves ALL of humanity..

and ALL human beings have a choice to choose salvation or death.

If God predestine's his children, then what's the point of preaching.

 

Matthew 11:28 Come to me, ALL who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

 

There is nothing in scripture that says that individuals are predestined to know God. Believers are predestined to become like Jesus.

 

Romans 8:29 (NLT)

²⁹ For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

 

That said, God's word says that He desires that all come to Him.

 

 

1 Timothy 2:3-4 (NLT)

³ This is good and pleases God our Savior, ⁴ who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.

[Guest DRS81]

There is nothing in scripture that says that individuals are predestined to know God. Believers are predestined to become like Jesus.

 

But Jesus IS God, and becoming like Jesus is to know God. Individuals become believers, and I believe certain individuals are predestined to become like Jesus/God and to know Jesus/God. You have to be careful with words when discussing circled debates.

[OneLight]

The passage reads:

 

Romans 8:29

For whom He

foreknew

, He also predestined

to be

conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

God foreknew who would choose His Son and who would not.  There is a choice we have to make.

[Guest DRS81]

The passage reads:

 

Romans 8:29

 

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

 

God foreknew who would choose His Son and who would not.  There is a choice we have to make.

 

It just doesn't seem like a choice if in reality our choice is predestined. That's my only beef, ha.

[asper]

Ro 8:29  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

Actually it says whom, not what.

 

“Whom” is a pronoun.

 

 

Foreknow?

 

Ac 26:5  Which knew <4267> me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.

 

Ro 8:29  For whom he did foreknow <4267>, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

Ro 11:2  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew <4267>. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

 

1Pe 1:20  Who verily was foreordained <4267> before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

 

2Pe 3:17  Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before <4267>, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

 

 

 

 

Ro 8:29  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

Saying that the verse is is teaching  God knew who would choose His Son is a bit of a stretch.

 

 

God bless,

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

[OneLight]

 

The passage reads:

 

Romans 8:29

 

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

 

God foreknew who would choose His Son and who would not.  There is a choice we have to make.

 

It just doesn't seem like a choice if in reality our choice is predestined. That's my only beef, ha.

 

 

If you examine what the verse said, God looked down through time to see who would choose salvation.  Those who did, he predestined them to conform to the image of His Son.  This was all done far before you were born.

[Guest DRS81]

If you examine what the verse said, God looked down through time to see who would choose salvation.  Those who did, he predestined them to conform to the image of His Son.  This was all done far before you were born.

 

But having a choice is having the power to choose something. Where's our power if God was behind it all from the start. By our salvation being predestined, is turning into the image of Christ forced? For example, I choose to not drink and drive. I have power behind that choice. Now, is my power coming from the Holy Spirit or me/self? God didn't make the decision FOR me. I made the decision on my own, or was I persuaded by the Holy Spirit to not drink and drive. So, I guess what I'm saying is that if God is drawing unbelievers in, do they really have a choice to deny Christ? On an end note, I rather have my power, force and persuasion come from the Holy Spirit rather than man anyways.