Perhaps Love Bakes a Cake?

[Guest ninhao]

But, in terms of your OP, that is interesting an interesting thought about if the train is being missed in not baking cakes for gay marriages. I have been thinking a lot about the way the christian right asserts itself in the public sphere and I have to admit, I don't get it. There's a lot of hand slapping and not a lot of sharing the actual gospel. Why should unbelievers care if a bunch of believers think that extramarital sex at all is wrong? You tell them it's sinful, they give you a funny look, because they don't believe in sin, or God, or know that a savior has died for them. Suppose you get them to stop their particular sinful behavior, but to what end if they don't believe in Jesus?

 

 

Yes Alpha this is important. However; it is unlikely anyone will repent of a life of sin without coming to Jesus. Sinners need to know God loves them and has something better for them. The Holy Spirit convicts people of sin and we need to introduce people to God by presenting the Gospel. During discipleship it becomes important to regulate behaviour as per 1Corinthians 5.

 

I also don't get it, as you say, and I see many Christians poised stone in hand.

 

I have another thought. It came to my attention recently that some non believers I know think Christians present salvation is dependent upon the absence of sin.ie they will point to any sin they see in a Christian and reason " they are the same as us ! ( and hypocrites ! )"   I wonder how many non believers think this and why.

[Sevenseas]

If this is the bakery in Oregon there is a lot more to it. First the couple actually were ok with it at first and he makes other cakes for them like birthday and such. the mother of one of them came back in threw a fit and she is the one that spured on the law suit. the question is if it were a muslim owned resturant would they serve alcohol which is against that religion and if they didn't under religious terms would anyone complain or would a jewish caterer serve unkosher foods. Also the state of Oregon really had a lot to do with harrasment and the protests

 

Is there some way to find out for sure?  I, for one, would be interested in knowing if that is so.

 

Thanks ~

[GoldenEagle]

 

If this is the bakery in Oregon there is a lot more to it. First the couple actually were ok with it at first and he makes other cakes for them like birthday and such. the mother of one of them came back in threw a fit and she is the one that spured on the law suit. the question is if it were a muslim owned resturant would they serve alcohol which is against that religion and if they didn't under religious terms would anyone complain or would a jewish caterer serve unkosher foods. Also the state of Oregon really had a lot to do with harrasment and the protests

 

Is there some way to find out for sure?  I, for one, would be interested in knowing if that is so.

 

Thanks ~

 

 

Yes this is the bakery in Oregon. Like I said I didn't have all the information as to the details. So the bakery owners did bake cakes for birthdays and such. The mother of one of the homosexual partners came back and made a fuss. Interesting... Do you have a link to any of this please to facilitate the discussion?

 

Interesting thoughts regarding a Muslim restaraunt owner or a Jewish catering service.

I guess to me the issue is that a Muslim could easily state that their business would not serve alcohol. Plenty of businesses do this including those owned by Christians.

 

Regarding a Jewish catering service... I'm not sure about that one. I don't think there would be an issue with a Jew serving unkosher food. Isn't it the Jew eating of the food that would be offenseive? I'm unsure.

The issue here is that a bakery that is known for baking goods determined that they wouldn't bake a cake (even though they'd baked others such as birthday cakes) for this homosexual person.

 

Also curious what are the laws in Oregon regarding discrimination against people due to sexual orientation? Is this a protected class in Oregon?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

For clarification I think it's horrible/despicable that those involved threatened and boycotted the business to where it was shut down.

However, one friend said the following:

 

 

 

Lance: No one's saying that a Christian pastor should be a part of a gay wedding. And yes, the bakery owners have the legal right to refuse to do business with whomever they please. The point Micah was trying to make with the bakery example is this: would those bakery owners apply the same criteria of "we don't want to aid in a sinful lifestyle" to couples that had pre-marital sex? What about non-Christian hetereosexual couples? What about clients who struggled with gluttony? Would the bakery owners apply the "not aiding sin" criteria apply to those other categories? I think not.

 

 

 

Couples who had premarital sex are stopping that sin when they get married. So the bakery is not giving the appearance of condoning any sin. 

 

Gay couples who get married are not stopping a sin and baking a cake for them does give the appearance of condoning the sin.

 

It is not hypocrisy.

 

 

See but whether the bakery made the cake or someone else did the homosexual couple was still going to get married. So I'm not sure that baking the cake was giving the appearance of condoning the sin.

To me the bakery was providing a service - bake a cake and get paid to do it. Just like mowing a homosexual couples yard wouldn't mean I approve of their relationship, baking a cake for a homosexual couple wouldn't mean approving of their relationship IMO. What people do with a particular product is their business IMO.

Perhaps it's not hypocrisy. Perhaps it is.

But it certainly is a lack of wisdom IMO. The man lost his business, put his family in danger, and had to find different work. The easiest thing to do would've been to simply bake the cake and be done with it. <sigh>

 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

But, in terms of your OP, that is interesting an interesting thought about if the train is being missed in not baking cakes for gay marriages. I have been thinking a lot about the way the christian right asserts itself in the public sphere and I have to admit, I don't get it. There's a lot of hand slapping and not a lot of sharing the actual gospel. Why should unbelievers care if a bunch of believers think that extramarital sex at all is wrong? You tell them it's sinful, they give you a funny look, because they don't believe in sin, or God, or know that a savior has died for them. Suppose you get them to stop their particular sinful behavior, but to what end if they don't believe in Jesus?

 

 

Yes Alpha this is important. However; it is unlikely anyone will repent of a life of sin without coming to Jesus. Sinners need to know God loves them and has something better for them. The Holy Spirit convicts people of sin and we need to introduce people to God by presenting the Gospel. During discipleship it becomes important to regulate behaviour as per 1Corinthians 5.

 

I also don't get it, as you say, and I see many Christians poised stone in hand.

 

I have another thought. It came to my attention recently that some non believers I know think Christians present salvation is dependent upon the absence of sin.ie they will point to any sin they see in a Christian and reason " they are the same as us ! ( and hypocrites ! )"   I wonder how many non believers think this and why.

 

 

Good observations and questions.

[shorryshaggy]

The radio show I heard was the Lars Larson show out of portland.

[ayin jade]

 

But it certainly is a lack of wisdom IMO. The man lost his business, put his family in danger, and had to find different work. The easiest thing to do would've been to simply bake the cake and be done with it. <sigh>

 

God bless,

GE

 

 

The easiest thing for daniel would have been to bow to the idol and not be thrown into the furnace. He chose the hard way and not bow to the idol. 

 

The baker stood up for his principles, for his beliefs. Yes it cost him, but so it will be for those who take a stand for their beliefs. We should not bow to the whims of society and violate our beliefs. 

[GoldenEagle]

Comparing Daniel's act of worship by bowing down to an idol to a business transaction baking a cake... Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree that the two are even comparable. It's like apples and bananas IMO.

 

As to the baker and standing up for his principles not bowing to the whims of society and violating his beliefs... Perhaps Sheba. But what did he really accomplish? Did this somehow change the fact that the homosexual couple got married? Did this change their hearts to be more sensitive to the Gospel?

 

But I do see what you're saying to a certain extent.

 

God bless,

GE

[Sevenseas]

 

 

If this is the bakery in Oregon there is a lot more to it. First the couple actually were ok with it at first and he makes other cakes for them like birthday and such. the mother of one of them came back in threw a fit and she is the one that spured on the law suit. the question is if it were a muslim owned resturant would they serve alcohol which is against that religion and if they didn't under religious terms would anyone complain or would a jewish caterer serve unkosher foods. Also the state of Oregon really had a lot to do with harrasment and the protests

 

Is there some way to find out for sure?  I, for one, would be interested in knowing if that is so.

 

Thanks ~

 

 

Yes this is the bakery in Oregon. Like I said I didn't have all the information as to the details. So the bakery owners did bake cakes for birthdays and such. The mother of one of the homosexual partners came back and made a fuss. Interesting... Do you have a link to any of this please to facilitate the discussion?

 

Interesting thoughts regarding a Muslim restaraunt owner or a Jewish catering service.

I guess to me the issue is that a Muslim could easily state that their business would not serve alcohol. Plenty of businesses do this including those owned by Christians.

 

Regarding a Jewish catering service... I'm not sure about that one. I don't think there would be an issue with a Jew serving unkosher food. Isn't it the Jew eating of the food that would be offenseive? I'm unsure.

The issue here is that a bakery that is known for baking goods determined that they wouldn't bake a cake (even though they'd baked others such as birthday cakes) for this homosexual person.

 

Also curious what are the laws in Oregon regarding discrimination against people due to sexual orientation? Is this a protected class in Oregon?

God bless,

GE

 

 

 

I found this:

 

 

 

A follow-up to the story of the New Mexico photographer who lost her court battle after refusing to take a job at a gay wedding. Different state and a different trade this time but a similar result potentially: The business owners in this case said no when a lesbian couple came into the shop looking for a wedding cake. The latter filed a complaint with the state under the relevant antidiscrimination law and an investigation, which could have taken up to a year, was launched. The bakers, having already been targeted for a boycott by opponents and likely fearing the expense and aggravation of a long court battle themselves, decided to close the shop and move operations into their home, which presumably renders the business “distinctly private” and therefore beyond the reach of the state’s public accommodations law. (Does it?)

 

Link to the rest  of the article It mentions the case of the photographer in NM who refused to shoot a gay wedding...I actually started an op on that one myself and I believe someone else did too?

 

But this, following, is the kicker for me and why I asked the question of shorry's post:

 

Second, note what the guy says in the clip about how they’ve made cakes for this couple before. They don’t refuse to serve gay customers, they refuse to serve gay weddings specifically. 

 

So, it seems to me that the bakery was actually defining their belief about marriage rather than an all encompassing expression of anti-gay sentiment, and the other thing that I found

interesting, is that it was the MOTHER...big momma...that actually made the fuss

 

Anyway, it was not a nice scene before it was all over.  As the article goes into the proceedings regarding the photog case, it kind of makes for interesting reading and comparison as to how

courts are deciding these days, how they they are going to walk a fine line and just how many times they will split hairs and sorry for all the cliches 

 

Anyway, the worms have all left the can already.....

[missmuffet]

Perhaps this is the story about the bakery in Gresham Oregon

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/09/03/todd-american-dispatch-christian-bakery-closes-after-lgbt-threats-protests/