Salvation

[redroses42]

is there a difference to ...salvation  and being born again......I have been reading on the forum....can a beliver  lose salvation and find themselves in hell

I belive once you are born again you are born again....if you are saved you are saved....

 

                                                                                                                           maggie

[Guest man]

Anyone got a can opener?  

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest man]

Never mind, we'll use mine. 

 

 

 

 

Revelation 3

1“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 

2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.

 

3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

 

4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 

 

5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

 

6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

 

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I think everyone can agree that if ones name is in the Book of Life, their salvation is guaranteed. No one can enter the kingdom unless their name is in the Book. 

 

Verse 5 makes reference to names being blotted out of the Book of Life if certain conditions aren't met. If names can be removed from the Book of Life, that would indicate that the saved can become unsaved.

[Qnts2]

A person who receives eternal salvation by faith, is born again.

 

 

 

The question of whether a born again person can lose their salvation is a very controversial subject. One which causes a large number of disagreements based on differing beliefs.

 

I personally believe that a person is eternally saved and therefore eternally secure. This belief is held by people who subscribe to Calvinism, also the majority of Baptists, and various others.  

 

Using the same verse as man.

 

Rev. 3:5

5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

 

A person who overcomes is clothed in white garments and will not have their name blotted out of the book of life. So, the question is, how does a person overcome and receive these white garments?

 

Rev 7:14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

So I believe this verse says that to have white robes/garments is by being washed by the blood of the lamb, or being saved/born again.

 

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

 

How to overcome is again by the blood of the Lamb (salvation) and continued belief even to the time of death.

[asper]

is there a difference to ...salvation  and being born again......I have been reading on the forum....can a beliver  lose salvation and find themselves in hell

I belive once you are born again you are born again....if you are saved you are saved....

 

                                                                                                                           maggie

 

Hi redroses42,

 

My personal opinion is that many make a mistake by assuming that the word saved means the same thing all the time. You have to take it in the context of what they are talking about.

 

4982. σωζω sozo sode’-zo; from a primary σως sos (contraction for obsolete σαος saos, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): —  heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

 

An example,

 

Jude 1:5  I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved <4982> the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

 

Even though God had saved them  (what I usually refer to physically as apposed to using truly saved to refer to spiritually saved)  they still did not believe.

 

Another mystery to me is that some assume that all the members of the early church were spiritually saved and apply that same belief to themselves and others because they attend what they consider a proper church.

 

It is always the individual that needs to be saved, there is no group salvation because you happen to be a member of a certain group.

 

Just read the seven letters to the churches in revelation,

 

At the closing verses of each letter (no matter how good or bad the church was) there is a call to the individual.

 

Re 2:7  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

 

Re 2:11  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

 

Re 2:17  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

 

Re 2:26  And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

 

Re 3:5  He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

Re 3:12  Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

Re 3:21  To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

 

 

So who is Jesus talking to?

 

Individuals who are church members who are not spiritually saved.

 

How do I know they are not spiritually saved?

 

1Jo 5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

 

1Jo 5:5  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

I’ll end here so as to not make too many points to defend.

 

God bless,

Tony

 

 

Side note taken from J.F.B commentary.

 

I will not — Greek, "I will not by any means."

 

blot out … name out of … book of life — of the heavenly city. A register was kept in ancient cities of their citizens: the names of the dead were of course erased. So those who have a name that they live and are dead (#Re 3:1), are blotted out of God’s roll of the heavenly citizens and heirs of eternal life;  not that in God’s electing decree they ever were in His book of life. But, according to human conceptions, those who had a high name for piety would be supposed to be in it, and were, in respect to privileges, actually among those in the way of salvation; but these privileges, and the fact that they once might have been saved, shall be of no avail to them. As to the book of life, compare #Re 13:8 17:8 20:12,15 21:27 Ex 32:32 Ps 69:28 Da 12:1. In the sense of the "call," many are enrolled among the called to salvation, who shall not be found among the chosen at last. The pale of salvation is wider than that of election. Election is fixed. Salvation is open to all and is pending (humanly speaking) in the case of those mentioned here. But #Re 20:15 21:27, exhibit the book of the elect alone in the narrower sense, after the erasure of the others.

[Willa]

The letters to the churches in Revelations are just that; they are addressed to church bodies rather that to individuals. But I do believe that there are reprobates who have turned away from Christ and died renouncing Him. I believe it takes an awful lot to commit the unforgivable sin, and it must be done till you die. The Bible does not even say that those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit have ever been Believers. When Jesus prayed for us in John 17, He told the Father He had kept all that the Father had given Him but for Judas. So you have to think about what Judas did to be lost. Even Peter denying Christ 3 times did not qualify.

I do think that there are denominations that tolerate evil, and some that are dying, and some that are luke warm that keep Christ outside their doors. So of course, individuals make up a church and it would be very for those true believers that remain. We are told in the last days there would be a falling away and reprobates. I know of people who have been raised in good churches but not discipled or taught. They often get deceived by cults. So it is a warning to be on guard against false doctrine and read your Bible. But I believe that all who want to be saved shall be saved and Jesus will keep us.

[Jerry1023]

There is a song that says,i will never end my journey half way,untill i reach my home,satan was in heaven before but the day he disobeyed God and stop doing the will of God he was cast down from heaven: In my own opinion,and level of my understanding,pertaining the things of God,for someone to be saved,and gaurantee a place in heaven,you must confess Jesus as your Lord and savior,and your confession will be irrevocable,and after that you will be ready to obey his instructions,and lives a righteous life, till you die,you are saved indee,like wise if you are unbeliver,someone preach about Jesus to you,instantly you accept Jesus as your Lord and savior,you give your life to him,you become born again,i believe heaven is for you,God is a divine gentle man he has no busines with your pass, if you end your journey half way,"whao".i don't think heaven is for you,if you confess Jesus today you are saved,as long as you still believe in him,but if you renounce Jesus,you no longer believed in him,and you die,you have end your journey half way,and i don't think heaven is for you, Jesus is the only ladder that can take us to heaven,Jesus says in the scripture,iam the way the truth and the life,no one cometh to the father expect thru me,just my own opinion"

[nebula]

When Jesus talked to Nicodemus about being "born again", Jesus was surprised Nicodemus did not understand what He meant. Does this not imply that Jesus spoke of a previously accepted and known concept expressed in the Scriptures (what we now call the Old Testament)?

 

 

As for the Book of Life, one of the Fall Feasts - I forget which one - celebrates the opening of the book. The principle about a name being written in and blotted out is a concept that comes from this feast. So, to understand what Jesus meant by this, one ought to study the element of the Feast this alludes to, don't you think?

[Guest man]

When Jesus talked to Nicodemus about being "born again", Jesus was surprised Nicodemus did not understand what He meant. Does this not imply that Jesus spoke of a previously accepted and known concept expressed in the Scriptures (what we now call the Old Testament)?

 

 

As for the Book of Life, one of the Fall Feasts - I forget which one - celebrates the opening of the book. The principle about a name being written in and blotted out is a concept that comes from this feast. So, to understand what Jesus meant by this, one ought to study the element of the Feast this alludes to, don't you think?

 

 

If I don't know what it is, I can't study it. Does that make sense?

[nebula]

 

When Jesus talked to Nicodemus about being "born again", Jesus was surprised Nicodemus did not understand what He meant. Does this not imply that Jesus spoke of a previously accepted and known concept expressed in the Scriptures (what we now call the Old Testament)?

 

 

As for the Book of Life, one of the Fall Feasts - I forget which one - celebrates the opening of the book. The principle about a name being written in and blotted out is a concept that comes from this feast. So, to understand what Jesus meant by this, one ought to study the element of the Feast this alludes to, don't you think?

If I don't know what it is, I can't study it. Does that make sense?

 

Yes, and I apologize for tha. But unfortunately I did not have the time to search the resources to explain these things this morning, and I still don't have the time (work break). I'm hoping someone more versed in such things can chime in. If not, I'll fill in the blanks later when I can.