Modern Day Apostles?

[Fez]

 

I do believe there are modern day apostles, but I also believe they are not usually those who claim the title.

 

From

http://kentcrockett.com/biblestudies/howmanyapostles.htm

 

 

 

The list 20 apostles. If that is true, then the list of apostles is beyond the original 12

 

1. Simon Peter (Matt. 10:2)

2. Andrew (Matt. 10:2)

3. James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2)

4. John (Matt. 10:2)

5. Philip (Matt. 10:3)

6. Bartholomew (Matt. 10:3)

7. Thomas (Matt. 10:3)

8. Matthew (Matt. 10:3)

9. James the son of Alphaeus (Matt. 10:3)

10. Thaddaeus (Matt. 10:3), or Judas the son of James (Luke 6:16)

11. Simon the Zealot (Matt. 10:4)

12. Judas Iscariot (Matt. 10:4)

13. Matthias (Acts 1:26)

14. Paul (Gal. 1:1)

15. Barnabas (1 Cor. 9:5-6, Acts 14:4, 14)

16. Andronicus (Rom. 16:7)

17. Junias (Rom. 16:7)

18. James, the Lord's brother (Gal. 1:19)

19. Silas (Silvanus) (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6)

20. Timothy (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6)

21. Unnamed apostles (1 Cor. 15:7)

 

 

could you maybe expand on this Q? thank you.

 

and also, would you care to comment on these verses in regards to the 20+ named in the list?

 

Rev 2:1  Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Rev 2:2  I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Rev 2:3  And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

 

in what manner have these self-proclaimed apostles been tried?  is this a reference to a witnessing of the resurrection of Christ and miraculous signs and wonders?

 

and also:

 

Rev 21:14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

 

love to you.

 

how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

 

The scripture is talking about false, evil 'apostles' and cannot be used as a generalization.

God bless

[BlessedByTheBest]

 

2Co 11:12  But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 

2Co 11:13  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

 

i have seen modern day apostles whose main mission appears to be planting churches, which makes sense.  but do these men scripturally qualify to be named an Apostle of Jesus Christ, or are they self-appointed?

 

Scripture makes it clear that any member of the body of Christ is divinely appointed by the Head Himself, through the Holy Spirit.

so i would like to discuss apparent requirements that i believe are found in the Bible for this particular member of Christ's Body;

and whether or not it is valid beyond those who personally walked with Jesus Christ and witnessed Him in resurrected form.

 

1Co 9:1  Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord? 

 

1Co 15:7  After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

1Co 15:8  And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

1Co 15:9  For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

1) Did Paul actually state that seeing Jesus qualified him to be an apostle? In 1 Cor. 1:9 he states four qualifying points for his authority. It looks to me like these four points are separate points rather than the last three extending off the first.

With 1 Cor. 15, where does it state that seeing Jesus was a qualification for Apostleship?

 

thank you for the thoughtful response, neb.

i will respond accordingly.

 

1) I would have to answer no to this specific question, although he surely did believe it to be a necessary mention pertaining to his first question in the verse.

naturally, i believe we can declare it to be a logical conclusion that the honor of Seeing Jesus Christ seems to be a prerequisite for being called by Jesus Christ to Apostleship.  unless you can show me of an instance elsewhere in scripture where something contradicts this.

why else would he ask?

 

i don't believe 1 Corinthians 15 specifically makes the distinction of the witnessing of Christ's resurrection as a qualification, but again, it is deemed important enough for the Holy Spirit to mention those who physically saw Him.

 

 

1Jn 1:1  That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

1Jn 1:2  (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

1Jn 1:3  That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 

1Jn 1:4  And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

2) Is there anything here that indicates John is speaking of apostolic qualifications or calling?

 

2) No, but it is the second declaration i posted in regards to the Apostles making the important distinction that they were Eyewitnesses, and thus had the proper authority to proclaim this Gospel as Truth, with signs and miracles following.

 

Luk 6:13  And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

3) Here is a question - where did the word "apostle" come from? Is this a word Jesus made-up? Or was this a normal Greek word? if so, what does that Greek word mean? And then why were The Twelve called this?

 

3) 

Apostle definition (Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary)

 

 a person sent by another; a messenger; envoy. 

This word is once used as a descriptive designation of Jesus Christ, the Sent of the Father (Heb. 3:1; John 20:21). 

It is, however, generally used as designating the body of disciples to whom he entrusted the organization of his church and the dissemination of his gospel, "the twelve," as they are called. (Matt. 10:1-5; Mark 3:14; 6:7; Luke 6:13; 9:1). 

 

We have four lists of the apostles, one by each of the synoptic evangelists (Matt. 10:24; Mark 3:16; Luke 6:14), and one in the Acts (1:13). 

No two of these lists, however, perfectly coincide. Our Lord gave them the "keys of the kingdom," and by the gift of his Spirit fitted them to be the founders and governors of his church(John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26, 27; 16:7-15). 

To them, as representing his church, he gave the commission to "preach the gospel to every creature" (Matt. 28:18-20). 

 

After his ascension he communicated to them, according to his promise, supernatural gifts to qualify them for the discharge of their duties (Acts 2:4; 1Cor. 2:16; 2:7, 10, 13; 2 Cor. 5:20; 1 Cor. 11:2). 

 

Judas Iscariot, one of "the twelve," fell by transgression, and Matthias was substituted in his place (Acts 1:21). 

Saul of Tarsus was afterwards added to their number (Acts 9:3-20; 20:4; 26:15-18; 1 Tim. 1:12; 2:7; 2 Tim. 1:11). 

Luke has given some account of Peter, John, and the two James's (Acts 12:2, 17; 15:13; 21:18), but beyond this we know nothing from authentic history of the rest of the original twelve. 

After the martyrdom of James the Greater (Acts 12:2), James the Less usually resided at Jerusalem, while Paul, "the apostle of the uncircumcision," usually travelled as a missionary among the Gentiles (Gal. 2:8). 

 

It was characteristic of the apostles and necessary 

 

(1.) that they should have seen the Lord, and been able to testify of him and of his resurrection from personal knowledge 

(John 15:27; Acts 1:21, 22; 1 Cor. 9:1; Acts 22:14, 15). 

 

(2.)They must have been immediately called to that office by Christ (Luke 6:13; Gal. 1:1).

 

(3.) It was essential that they should be infallibly inspired, and thus secured against all error and mistake in their public teaching, whether by word or by writing (John 14:26; 16:13; 1 Thess. 2:13). 

 

(4.) Another qualification was the power of working miracles (Mark 16:20; Acts 2:43; 1 Cor. 12:8-11). 

 

The apostles therefore could have had no successors. They are the only authoritative teachers of the Christian doctrines.

The office of an apostle ceased with its first holders.

 

In 2 Cor. 8:23 and Phil. 2:25 the word"messenger" is the rendering of the same Greek word, elsewhere rendered "apostle."

 

 

Act 1:21  Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 

Act 1:22  Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

4) Well, according to this criteria, Paul could not be an apostle because he didn't accompany them from the time of John's baptism to Jesus' resurrection. So, A and B are not adding up here.

4) it simply refers to the fact that Jesus Christ's ministry began with His baptism, and the appointment of an Apostle from among the 70 disciples (which witnessed His resurrection) was to be of one who was with them constantly from the beginning.

 

i think it is important to note that Matthias was basically never to be mentioned again in scripture outside of this chapter.  which does not make it an absolute truth that He was not used by God..

but is it possible that the silence in scripture concerning Matthias is because he was selected by a casting of lots by men, and not by the divine appointment of Jesus Christ?  

 

i would say every effort of man outside of God's will is vanity.  something to ponder.

 

 

1Ti 1:1  Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope; 

 

2Co 12:12  Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

5) Again, how does this state that signs and wonders are qualifications of apostles?

 

5)  by providing these verses, i proved two points.

 

       1) the appointments of office within Christ's Church are divinely ordained.

       2) that Paul was making an argument for his divine appointment of apostle by miraculous signs, wonders, and mighty deeds.

 

i would say it's plainly evident.  would you like to show how this does not state signs and wonders are qualifications for an apostle?

 

thanks for making me take a closer look as you always do, neb.  i am even more convinced that the modern apostle is fraudulent based upon God's Word now.

unless of course we believe a claim that they have seen the Lord Jesus Christ in glorified form.  if this is the case, i would like to invite them to the nearest children's hospital.

i pray no one is offended, but apostles like Peter were the types of godly men which caused multitudes to strive in hopes of just reaching his shadow to be healed.

​it wasn't Peter or his shadow, but the supernatural anointing that was upon the Apostles of Jesus Christ.

 

 

love to you.

[BlessedByTheBest]

 

 

I do believe there are modern day apostles, but I also believe they are not usually those who claim the title.

 

From

http://kentcrockett.com/biblestudies/howmanyapostles.htm

 

 

 

The list 20 apostles. If that is true, then the list of apostles is beyond the original 12

 

1. Simon Peter (Matt. 10:2)

2. Andrew (Matt. 10:2)

3. James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2)

4. John (Matt. 10:2)

5. Philip (Matt. 10:3)

6. Bartholomew (Matt. 10:3)

7. Thomas (Matt. 10:3)

8. Matthew (Matt. 10:3)

9. James the son of Alphaeus (Matt. 10:3)

10. Thaddaeus (Matt. 10:3), or Judas the son of James (Luke 6:16)

11. Simon the Zealot (Matt. 10:4)

12. Judas Iscariot (Matt. 10:4)

13. Matthias (Acts 1:26)

14. Paul (Gal. 1:1)

15. Barnabas (1 Cor. 9:5-6, Acts 14:4, 14)

16. Andronicus (Rom. 16:7)

17. Junias (Rom. 16:7)

18. James, the Lord's brother (Gal. 1:19)

19. Silas (Silvanus) (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6)

20. Timothy (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6)

21. Unnamed apostles (1 Cor. 15:7)

 

 

could you maybe expand on this Q? thank you.

 

and also, would you care to comment on these verses in regards to the 20+ named in the list?

 

Rev 2:1  Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Rev 2:2  I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Rev 2:3  And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

 

in what manner have these self-proclaimed apostles been tried?  is this a reference to a witnessing of the resurrection of Christ and miraculous signs and wonders?

 

and also:

 

Rev 21:14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

 

love to you.

 

how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

 

The scripture is talking about false, evil 'apostles' and cannot be used as a generalization.

God bless

 

 

fair enough Fez, but then, in what manner have they been 'tried' and found to be liars?

[BlessedByTheBest]

Apostle means one who is sent out. An ambassador or messenger. If a person is called by God to be an evangelist he will be doing that at home. We have a person or two who are doing this in our church. They have a drive in them to share the gospel that compels them to do so much like that which Paul discribes. When the church recognizes this gift they may send the person out to another country with its blessings. This would technically be an apostle but few would call themselves that. We might call them missionaries today.

We used to have a family in another church that called themselves apostles because they went around to churches singing and preaching. I don't think so. They were self appointed and they considered themselves over the pastors in rank. Not good. God disciplined them by a terrible accident by which he lost his ability to speak fluently. But he could still sing and God used his singing to glorify Himself. While unconscience the guy had seen himself in hell.

There are many false apostles today And no one is comprable to the original Apostles. I especially am warey of those who have appointed themselves as authorities or as ones with special knowledge or insight. That is something that the church must first recognize and evaluate or appoint. People cannot just go around declaring themselves such. And some lead many astray because they tell people what they want to hear (as in the prosperity gospel). That is also how bad leaders deceive and get elected and honost ones get rejected.

 

yes and amen, Willamina.

[Mcgyver]

 

 

 

I do believe there are modern day apostles, but I also believe they are not usually those who claim the title.

 

From

http://kentcrockett.com/biblestudies/howmanyapostles.htm

 

 

 

The list 20 apostles. If that is true, then the list of apostles is beyond the original 12

 

1. Simon Peter (Matt. 10:2)

2. Andrew (Matt. 10:2)

3. James the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2)

4. John (Matt. 10:2)

5. Philip (Matt. 10:3)

6. Bartholomew (Matt. 10:3)

7. Thomas (Matt. 10:3)

8. Matthew (Matt. 10:3)

9. James the son of Alphaeus (Matt. 10:3)

10. Thaddaeus (Matt. 10:3), or Judas the son of James (Luke 6:16)

11. Simon the Zealot (Matt. 10:4)

12. Judas Iscariot (Matt. 10:4)

13. Matthias (Acts 1:26)

14. Paul (Gal. 1:1)

15. Barnabas (1 Cor. 9:5-6, Acts 14:4, 14)

16. Andronicus (Rom. 16:7)

17. Junias (Rom. 16:7)

18. James, the Lord's brother (Gal. 1:19)

19. Silas (Silvanus) (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6)

20. Timothy (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6)

21. Unnamed apostles (1 Cor. 15:7)

 

 

could you maybe expand on this Q? thank you.

 

and also, would you care to comment on these verses in regards to the 20+ named in the list?

 

Rev 2:1  Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Rev 2:2  I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Rev 2:3  And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

 

in what manner have these self-proclaimed apostles been tried?  is this a reference to a witnessing of the resurrection of Christ and miraculous signs and wonders?

 

and also:

 

Rev 21:14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

 

love to you.

 

how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

 

The scripture is talking about false, evil 'apostles' and cannot be used as a generalization.

God bless

 

 

fair enough Fez, but then, in what manner have they been 'tried' and found to be liars?

 

 

I'll jump in here if I may....

 

The word "Apostle" (Lit. One who is sent) carries two meanings in the scripture...One is the "office" of Apostle (which is the normally associated connotation), and one is in the sense of a missionary. In fact the book of Acts is properly titled in Greek: "The Acts of Apostolic Men".

 

The key requirement of the "office" of Apostle was to have been an eyewitness to the resurrected Christ. The requirement of apostle in the sense of missionary (one who is sent) hinged on the proclaimation of the gospel.

 

When we consider that by the time Revelation was written (circa AD 95) all the other apostles were dead, then I believe that we can surmise that the false apostles mentioned in Revelation are either those who who were preaching a "different" gospel (most likely), or were self-proclaiming that they had seen the risen Christ and actually had not.

 

In any event, the commendation to the church is that they did not heed these heretics...and of course the condemnation is that they had left their first love...

[kwikphilly]

Beloved,

       I really don't think I can honestly answer this question because I do not know everyone in this great big world of ours....Do I think it possible that there are modern day apostles,sure-as all things are possible with God,And God is the One that would call one to apostleship...we know the requirements,which are witnessing our resurrected Savior,miracles,signs and wonders(BTW nebula ,that was such accurate and appropriate application of Scripture).

      Do I think it's probable,no-not really....I believe after the Bible was completed I don't think that signs and wonders were necessary any longer because light and truth in a man is known by the degree he holds to the Scriptures.....if there were really apostles out there today wouldn't at least one of them be clearing out cancer wards or St,Judes Childrens Hospital and so on?Instead we see many false apostles on T.V. "performing"healings in a stadium,blowing on people and they fall down in a trance only to get up babbling gibberish......

     As I said,I simply cannot honestly answer this question,I don't know a mans heart,I can't know if what an individual claims to have seen is true and I have not seen anyone work any mighty wonders.....All I can do is pray for discernment,look at the fruit one produces,be responsible that what I am listening to is in alignment with Gods Word and love the Lord with all my heart,all my soul ,all my mind and give Him glory for all the wonderful things He has done for me in the Name that is above all names,Christ Jesus....Halleluliah!

                                                                                                                     With love,in Christ-Kwik

[BlessedByTheBest]

 

 

The scripture is talking about false, evil 'apostles' and cannot be used as a generalization.

 

 

God bless

 

 

fair enough Fez, but then, in what manner have they been 'tried' and found to be liars?

 

 

I'll jump in here if I may....

 

The word "Apostle" (Lit. One who is sent) carries two meanings in the scripture...One is the "office" of Apostle (which is the normally associated connotation), and one is in the sense of a missionary. In fact the book of Acts is properly titled in Greek: "The Acts of Apostolic Men".

 

The key requirement of the "office" of Apostle was to have been an eyewitness to the resurrected Christ. The requirement of apostle in the sense of missionary (one who is sent) hinged on the proclaimation of the gospel.

 

When we consider that by the time Revelation was written (circa AD 95) all the other apostles were dead, then I believe that we can surmise that the false apostles mentioned in Revelation are either those who who were preaching a "different" gospel (most likely), or were self-proclaiming that they had seen the risen Christ and actually had not.

 

In any event, the commendation to the church is that they did not heed these heretics...and of course the condemnation is that they had left their first love...

 

 

excellent, thank you brother Mcgyver

[OneLight]

We are given scripture that tells us in 1 Corinthians 12:27-28:

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

God has not removed the church, so yes, there are Apostles today. Saying that, I don't see everyone who calls themselves an Apostle are true Apostles, but self appointed, or even appointed by elders without His blessing, acting on their own for their goals.

I believe a person who is appointed to be an Apostle is humble enough to not go around feeling like they need to carry a title for people to respect their position. Out of their fruit they will be given respect and become recognized as to what position in Christ they have. The Glory of God will go before them.

[MarkNigro]

We are given scripture that tells us in 1 Corinthians 12:27-28:

 

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

God has not removed the church, so yes, there are Apostles today. Saying that, I don't see everyone who calls themselves an Apostle are true Apostles, but self appointed, or even appointed by elders without His blessing, acting on their own for their goals.

I believe a person who is appointed to be an Apostle is humble enough to not go around feeling like they need to carry a title for people to respect their position. Out of their fruit they will be given respect and become recognized as to what position in Christ they have. The Glory of God will go before them.

 

To be an apostle you have to see the risen Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Acts 1:21-22

 

²¹ Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

²² Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

 

That is why Paul wrote the follwoing to solidify his claim as an apostle.

 

1 Corinthians 9:1-2

1 Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

² If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

 

But Paul is the last to become an apostle. There are no more apostles.

 

1 Corinthains 15:8

And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

 

In fact, Paul warns against anybody claiming to be an apostle.

 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15

 

¹² But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

¹³ For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

¹⁴ And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

¹⁵ Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.