The Amish

[BFP]

Welllll...just did a google search on "ex-Amish"  and I have to admit that you may be absolutely right alphaparticle...about the works having everything to do with salvation.  I am also thankful that you have pressed me to look into this further.

Although I still have great admiration for thier simplicity and culture, AND thier faithfulness...they are some issues.

I grew up under very legalistic standards myself...to this day have issues with whether or not I should partake of communion.  I think alot of how we see things comes from how we are raised.  BUT at the same time, I am happy about who I am today, and those strict standards DID make me a better person all in all.  So it's not all bad

[nikki1]

I've noticed several people holding up the amish a some kind of  model community lately, and I have to admit, I find this baffling. This is a group that shuns those who leave the community, that demand adherence to a strict set of complicated rules to be in good standing at the community and the thought that God will allow them into heaven based on how well they do at following these rules. There are rules about how men have to wear their beards, the allowed color of clothing, against belts. Their young people are poorly educated, so that if they do want to leave, they are at a huge disadvantage. Not to mention, they do not evangelize as we are commanded to. I also find it strange that these people are lauded as a model on an internet forum, which they are forbidden to use. It's not a matter of personal choice here, they are forbidden to by their community if they want to remain in the place they grew up, around their family, for the only life they were really prepared for at all. What is so fantastic about this? If you crave simplicity, why not just create that? If you feel that wearing simpler more covering clothes would be better, why not just do that? I don't think holding this group up though is a good idea.

 

Check out this below:

http://web.missouri....udduthfs00.html

 

"Indeed, the Amish believe that the entire purpose of this life is to prepare for the life to come by overcoming their corrupt human nature. Not only does this process take most people an entire lifetime to complete, one's salvation must always be in question (Hartman). A person overcomes his or her sinfulness by yielding to the church authority structure, a concept known as Gelassenheit (Kraybill 102). If one obeys the church leaders, who are God's mouthpieces, or the rules those leaders establish under divine guidance, one is disobeying God Himself. To borrow a Buddhist term, the church is the Mahayana, or "great vehicle," used to bring people to salvation, and all those not on board have no hope of achieving eternal life. It is only available through the guidance and authority of the Amish faith."

 

One obeys church leaders, if they don't, they are disobeying God Himself. This is disturbing.

 

 

I live in a heavily populated Amish area.  As does my brother.  Their horse and buggy carriages pass by my brother's country home daily.  He knows personally many Amish people and has working relationships with some.  Recently one Amish couple left the Amish community (was banned) and  apologized to my brother,  who is born again,  for what he called "using Christians."  The husband said the Amish use other people by hiring them to take them places in  their vehicles, to sell their goods, use other people's telephones, but don't own one,  electric, etc., assisting the Amish to live off of others, while at the same time, receive big tax exemptions because they are considered a church community.  This particular former Amish is now born-again and made this apology in the front of 40 other born-again Christians.  You can make your own conclusions.

 

Another odd thing.... Even though "outsiders" are not invited into their regular church meetings and services, unless you are Amish, they hold services in their homes weekly, and not a public meeting place.  Yet they have a "church" tax exempt  classification

 

Personally, I think the Amish are people of good quality with good "Christian morals," outside of a few rebellious ones,  but they have a belief system that does not exactly agree with what the Bible tells

us about "taking the Gosepl to all nations".  I have yet to hear one say or preach anything about Jesus, or tell others about Him.  We are to be witnesses for Him;  and their living example, though admirable, is not one that conforms to biblical standards.  I am around the Amish very often and I often witness to them about Jesus and talk about Jesus in my conversation, yet they seldom respond in the same respect.  I think this is odd.

[BFP]

 

They are a group that strives for holiness...and believes on Christ to be saved.  Nothing wrong with that.  And looking from the outside in...which is as close as any of us can get...we can't say for absolute certain that they use the rules as a guideline for salvation.  I don't think they do.  I have known mennonites in my time but not Amish.  No they don't evengelize anymore,they used to.  But they live thier faith every single moment.

If they were truly living the Christian faith they *would* evangelize. That in itself is a huge red flag. IF you look at the information I provided you'll see also that they link salvation with the following the rules of their community, an even bigger red flag. There are Mormons who 'live out their faith', same with Muslims. What does that mean in the end? Besides which, we have no idea why they are doing that. If they think they will go to hell if they fail, they may do it out of fear. Perhaps some do it out of fear of shunning. I see no good in that.

 

Were you raised in  Christian home?  I think many who were raised in an evangelical Christian home come to Christ through fear and guilt.  Catholics have no fear of hell as children because Catholics dont believe in hell in the same way as evengelists do.

When someone comes to Christ on thier own, with no religious background having been instilled, they better see it for what it truly is in some ways, but often don't understand the faith and works thing.  Ahhh it can go round and round can't it?

I know that I came back to Christ after a huge prodical session...and came back out of fear and guilt...but then Christ started showing me himself...who HE is, not who i thought he was.  Do I believe in faith with works?  Yes, I do.  I believe that faith without works is nothing...BUT without faith your works are nothing as well.  They go hand in hand

[*Zion*]

I've noticed several people holding up the amish a some kind of  model community lately, and I have to admit, I find this baffling. This is a group that shuns those who leave the community, that demand adherence to a strict set of complicated rules to be in good standing at the community and the thought that God will allow them into heaven based on how well they do at following these rules. There are rules about how men have to wear their beards, the allowed color of clothing, against belts. Their young people are poorly educated, so that if they do want to leave, they are at a huge disadvantage. Not to mention, they do not evangelize as we are commanded to. I also find it strange that these people are lauded as a model on an internet forum, which they are forbidden to use. It's not a matter of personal choice here, they are forbidden to by their community if they want to remain in the place they grew up, around their family, for the only life they were really prepared for at all. What is so fantastic about this? If you crave simplicity, why not just create that? If you feel that wearing simpler more covering clothes would be better, why not just do that? I don't think holding this group up though is a good idea.

 

Check out this below:

http://web.missouri....udduthfs00.html

 

"Indeed, the Amish believe that the entire purpose of this life is to prepare for the life to come by overcoming their corrupt human nature. Not only does this process take most people an entire lifetime to complete, one's salvation must always be in question (Hartman). A person overcomes his or her sinfulness by yielding to the church authority structure, a concept known as Gelassenheit (Kraybill 102). If one obeys the church leaders, who are God's mouthpieces, or the rules those leaders establish under divine guidance, one is disobeying God Himself. To borrow a Buddhist term, the church is the Mahayana, or "great vehicle," used to bring people to salvation, and all those not on board have no hope of achieving eternal life. It is only available through the guidance and authority of the Amish faith."

 

One obeys church leaders, if they don't, they are disobeying God Himself. This is disturbing.

 

One at the very basis of claiming to have such authority must at least have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them.  Do they even believe in the Holy Spirit?  And if they do, do they believe in the infilling of the Holy Spirit TODAY?

Even Paul said: follow me AS I FOLLOW CHRIST.  Only God Himself in heaven can demand blind obedience, and He certainly doesn't need any human being doing it on His behalf.  Otherwise we wouldn't call it free will, would we?

[alphaparticle]

Welllll...just did a google search on "ex-Amish"  and I have to admit that you may be absolutely right alphaparticle...about the works having everything to do with salvation.  I am also thankful that you have pressed me to look into this further.

Although I still have great admiration for thier simplicity and culture, AND thier faithfulness...they are some issues.

I grew up under very legalistic standards myself...to this day have issues with whether or not I should partake of communion.  I think alot of how we see things comes from how we are raised.  BUT at the same time, I am happy about who I am today, and those strict standards DID make me a better person all in all.  So it's not all bad

That's a very interesting perspective BFP, thanks for sharing. I appreciate your feedback. I came from somewhat of an opposite background, in that my parents (who are secular) gave me a lot of personal freedom and I had few rules by the time I was a teenager. It's made the transition to being a Christian very interesting at times particularly as I set out thinking about my family and future family.

 

I think that answers most of your second post also. I've found for myself that since the beginning I have been bothered over certain things I do or fail to do and over time have recognized that as the Spirit. There's a progression of things and I imagine it will not end until I am dead.

[BFP]

 

Welllll...just did a google search on "ex-Amish"  and I have to admit that you may be absolutely right alphaparticle...about the works having everything to do with salvation.  I am also thankful that you have pressed me to look into this further.

Although I still have great admiration for thier simplicity and culture, AND thier faithfulness...they are some issues.

I grew up under very legalistic standards myself...to this day have issues with whether or not I should partake of communion.  I think alot of how we see things comes from how we are raised.  BUT at the same time, I am happy about who I am today, and those strict standards DID make me a better person all in all.  So it's not all bad

That's a very interesting perspective BFP, thanks for sharing. I appreciate your feedback. I came from somewhat of an opposite background, in that my parents (who are secular) gave me a lot of personal freedom and I had few rules by the time I was a teenager. It's made the transition to being a Christian very interesting at times particularly as I set out thinking about my family and future family.

 

I think that answers most of your second post also. I've found for myself that since the beginning I have been bothered over certain things I do or fail to do and over time have recognized that as the Spirit. There's a progression of things and I imagine it will not end until I am dead.

 

It definitely is a progression,whether you come from a faith background or not.  I find coming from a faith background there are hang-ups..you feel suspended between what you were taught, or what you think you were taught (because as a child maybe i took that the wrong way?)  And I question things in my own background.  But at the same time, the Lord has lead me through my whole life, and when I look back it is amazing.  I have alot of questions for God when I finally reach my destination!

[LadyKay]

I watched a documentary about an Amish family. The father of the family had begun to question the Amish ways. He said he read the Bible and did not see anything in the Bible telling him he had to ride in a horse and buggy in order to make it into heave. The Amish have different rules depending on which set they are. The leaders of the Amish community make all the rules for their community. This Amish guy said that he was told by the leaders in his community that he was not allowed to study the Bible on his own. He form and Bible study group for him and a few other men who wanted to study the Bible on their own. He got into trouble with the leaders of his Amish community and they order that he should be shunned. He said he could not believe that forming a Bible study group would get him shunned.

[LadyKay]

 

but they are a very good model of how faith and works work together...how to keep from being prideful...and putting God first in thier everyday lives.

And we do not? I try to do this everyday of my life. So how are they so much more of a model of faith then I am?   Poke that hornet nest is what I like to do!

 

 

But they live thier faith every single moment.

I am unsure as to how you know this to be true?  I feel I live my faith every single moment of my life. Even though I wear jeans and drive a jeep instead of a buggy. Just how does being Amish prove that you are living your faith?

 

 

There was the beard shaving that took place that was in the news a while back.

[LadyKay]

I do like many aspects of the Amish life. The sense of community. If someone in their community is in need of help, they all come together to help. I feel that more of our churches need to be doing this. And we do not need to be Amish to do so.

[Qnts2]

I do like many aspects of the Amish life. The sense of community. If someone in their community is in need of help, they all come together to help. I feel that more of our churches need to be doing this. And we do not need to be Amish to do so.

I agree. While I'm not sure about some of the things which are connected to the concept of community among the Amish, in my experience, our churches lack usually lack an understanding of community.