The Day of the Lord, will the church be raptured?

[Jzyehoshua]

In fact, I'd point out that John 5 actually has two mentions of resurrection, not just one.

 

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

One could actually consider those two different references to two different resurrections, the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:5) and the Second Resurrection (Revelation 20:13). The First Resurrection Jesus mentions in John 5:23-26 is seemingly addressed to those who hear Jesus' words, believe on God the Father, and have everlasting life, consistent with Revelation 20:5 where only believers are raised. The Second Resurrection Jesus mentions refers to resurrection of the unjust as well as the just, and damnation not just life, consistent with the Second Resurrection of Revelation 20:13 where all are raised from the dead to undergo the Final Judgment.

 

Just a possibility to point out.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Jzyehoshua

[Salty]

 

My words in Blue -

 

Look at the John 5:28-29 verses...

 

²⁸ Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,

²⁹ And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

How do you explain that part in red? It is specific to that one "hour" which is used as marker for the same time. When will those in the graves hear His voice and come forth out of their graves? At the resurrection, which is the subject in the 29th verse.

 

Well, it doesn't contradict the two separate resurrections of Revelation 20. You could have a First Resurrection. And then these two verses, John 5:28-29 could just be referring to the Second Resurrection when all are raised from the dead. John 5:28-29 doesn't remove the possibility of an earlier resurrection before this one.

 

 

But actually it does... contradict men's idea that the Rev.20:5 "dead" are still in graves waiting out Christ's thousand years reign.

 

If it weren't for what our Lord Jesus said in the John 5:28 verse about that "hour" of His voice when both of those come forth out of their graves, then you would be correct. Yet, that Scripture time marker is there; we can't just skip over like it doesn't exist.

[Salty]

In fact, I'd point out that John 5 actually has two mentions of resurrection, not just one.

 

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

One could actually consider those two different references to two different resurrections, the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:5) and the Second Resurrection (Revelation 20:13). The First Resurrection Jesus mentions in John 5:23-26 is seemingly addressed to those who hear Jesus' words, believe on God the Father, and have everlasting life, consistent with Revelation 20:5 where only believers are raised. The Second Resurrection Jesus mentions refers to resurrection of the unjust as well as the just, and damnation not just life, consistent with the Second Resurrection of Revelation 20:13 where all are raised from the dead to undergo the Final Judgment.

 

Just a possibility to point out.

 

If we read the two examples carefully, we should note some differences...

 

John 5:25

²⁵ Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

 

John 5:28-29

²⁸ Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

²⁹ And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

The event of the John 5:25 verse of the dead hearing His voice and living, is about the event of the "spirits in prison" whom He preached to at His death and resurrection (1 Pet.3-4). That happened approx. 2,000 years ago. We were even shown some who came out of their graves and appeared to many in Jerusalem after Jesus' death on the cross.

 

But the events of John 5:28-29 we know is for the end of this world.

[Marilyn C]

Hi inchrist,

 

Are we still on for that discussion, chat, on `The return of the Lord?` On the private thread.

[Salty]

 

 

@ Salty

 

It would seem I'm not going to get you to be honest about your theory in showing its weakness.

 

Talk like that isn't even worth addressing. Don't both to ask me the time of day either with that kind of gibberish in that post.

 

 

You taking my sentence out of context, as mentioned...its not much your fault as you have been conditioned to be defensive...me vs you..."my theory is holy writ"...if I question it I would be bring the entire OT and NT into question...

 

However you proved my point...no one will have a honest look at their rapture theories....All three cant be right, one must be right or all three are wrong

 

 

Sorry, but that's just more gibberish with your false assumption that everyone is wrong, except you. Not even worth addressing.

[Marilyn C]

Hi inchrist,

 

Great. I`ll go & ask George to set it up. Will be in touch.

[Salty]

 

 

Salty are all three raptures correct?

 

 

What does God's Word teach on the matter?

[Salty]

 

Salty are all three raptures correct?

 

 

What does God's Word say about the time of Christ's second coming?

 

What did the 1st and 2nd century Church fathers say on the time of Christ's second coming? I agree with their interpretation.

[Salty]

 

 

 

Salty are all three raptures correct?

 

 

What does God's Word say about the time of Christ's second coming?

 

What did the 1st and 2nd century Church fathers say on the time of Christ's second coming? I agree with their interpretation.

 

 

What does God's word say about the manner of Christ's second coming?

 

So you agree then all three raptures cant be correct? then you must agree only one is correct or all three must be incorrect? 

 

 

Where did I say "manner"?

 

What did I say about what the early 1st and 2nd century Church fathers believed about the time of Christ's second coming? What did... they believe on the 'time' of Christ's second coming? Find that out and you'll know what I believe on the time of Christ's second coming.

[Salty]

 

 

 

 

 

Where did I say "manner"?

 

What did I say about what the early 1st and 2nd century Church fathers believed about the time of Christ's second coming? What did... they believe on the 'time' of Christ's second coming? Find that out and you'll know what I believe on the time of Christ's second coming.

 

 

YOu never mentioned manner, thats why I brought it up, I'm asking you what does the bible say about the manner of Christ's return?

 

I already know you believe in the post trib..however what does the bible say about the manner of Christs return?

 

We both agree all three rapture theories cant be correct, we at the point now of if all three are incorrect or your version of the rapture is correct 

 

 

I don't use the word 'rapture' which originated from the Latin translation. So if you're going to change the subject to the "manner" of Christ's coming when I was speaking about the 'time' of His coming, then you're going to have to make up your mind, because they are two different subjects.

 

If you say you 'know' I believe in a post-trib coming of our Lord Jesus, then why do you keep rattling? I'm not going to discuss this with you because it's fairly obvious you don't believe Scripture about the manner, nor the time, of Christ's second coming. I even wonder if you believe in His return in the near future at all.