Biblical support of Eternal Hellfire?

[Reformed Baptist]

Based on the majority view on this thread we may need to edit the bible a little bit. 

 

OLD:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

NEW:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is eternal life in torment; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

I guess both the saved and the lost would have eternal life. 

 

Maybe, or maybe the definition of death (θάνατος) in Rom 6:23 needs to be understood. Death, in scripture, is never an end, that is an entirely pagan concept. No, rather death is always a separation, in spiritual death we are separated from God, in physical death we are separated from our bodies and in eternal death we are separated from the goodness and mercy of God forever. Life, therefore, as the opposite of death is about union, union of body and soul, union with God. Hence the contrast Paul makes in Rom 6:23 is entirely with the biblical teaching of eternal punishment.   

[Guest shiloh357]

Based on the majority view on this thread we may need to edit the bible a little bit. 

 

OLD:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

NEW:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is eternal life in torment; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

I guess both the saved and the lost would have eternal life. 

Again, you are confusing "eternal life" with "living forever."    Sinners will live forever, but they don't have eternal life.   "Eternal life" is a person.  Jesus is eternal life.  it is having Him living within in you in the person of the Holy Spirit. 

[Guest DRS81]

 

Based on the majority view on this thread we may need to edit the bible a little bit. 

 

OLD:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

NEW:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is eternal life in torment; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

I guess both the saved and the lost would have eternal life. 

Again, you are confusing "eternal life" with "living forever."    Sinners will live forever, but they don't have eternal life.   "Eternal life" is a person.  Jesus is eternal life.  it is having Him living within in you in the person of the Holy Spirit. 

 

 

shiloh357 is right. There's no way around it. Rev 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

 

[missmuffet]

 

Alot more people believe in heaven than in hell.Hell is a real place.We are all sinners Romans 3:23.The just punishment for that sin is death Romans 6:23.God is an infinite and eternal Being,the punishment for sin,death,must also be infinite and eternal.The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout scripture as "eternal fire"(Matthew 25-41)"unquenchable fire"(Matthew 3:12 and a "lake of burning sulfur" where the wicked are "tormented day and night forever and ever Revelation 20:10.

Praise God,through Jesus,we can escape this eternal fate.John 3;16,18,36.

 

1) Where is the word "eternal" linked with "hell" or "fire". I found 1 instance of "eternal fire":

 

Jud 1:7  Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 

 

The last time I checked, Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning, so it wasn't eternal.

 

2) "For ever and ever" does not mean eternal:

 

Jon 2:6  I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God. 

 

In this case, for ever was 3 days.

 

Deu 23:3  An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever: 

 

In this case, for ever is 10 generations

 

Exo 21:6  Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

 

In this case, for ever is however long the slave/servant lives

 

1Sa 1:22  But Hannah went not up; for she said unto her husband, I will not go up until the child be weaned, and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the LORD, and there abide for ever. 

 

In this case, for ever is however long Samuel lived

 

3) Most verses people get the idea of "eternal hell" are do not necessarily mean eternal.

 

4) I believe in hell, I just don't see support of it being eternal.

 

Eze 18:4  Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. 

Eze 18:20  The soul that sinneth, it shall die

 

Can a soul "die" for eternity? Where in the scripture has "die" meant anything except for dead? 

 

To be tormented for eternity, you would have to be alive for eternity. Jesus is the only way to eternal life, the opposite of eternal life is destruction. John 3:16 says if we believe in him we will not perish, thus if we do not believe in him, we will perish. Perish means to be completely destroyed. 

 

1.Matthew 25:41

 

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

 

2. If forever and ever does not mean eternal then what does it mean?I guess alot of people are going to find out just how long eternal is unfortunately.You are not interpreting scripture in a literal sense.You are making alot of the meaning up.I can not help you.

 

 

[ProphecyKid]

 

Based on the majority view on this thread we may need to edit the bible a little bit. 

 

OLD:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

NEW:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is eternal life in torment; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

I guess both the saved and the lost would have eternal life. 

Again, you are confusing "eternal life" with "living forever."    Sinners will live forever, but they don't have eternal life.   "Eternal life" is a person.  Jesus is eternal life.  it is having Him living within in you in the person of the Holy Spirit. 

 

 

Don't you see all of the literary gymnastics that needs to be done to support this belief. First you have to say that living forever is different to eternal life. Again I bring John 3:16

 

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH, but have everlasting life. 

 

So now you need to define what it means to perish and how can something that is living forever perish.

 

And also what does everlasting life mean. The use of the conjunction "but" means that it is the opposite. So the opposite of Perish in this verse, is everlasting life. So how does that work?

Edited December 16, 2013 by ProphecyKid

[ProphecyKid]

 

Based on the majority view on this thread we may need to edit the bible a little bit. 

 

OLD:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

NEW:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is eternal life in torment; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

I guess both the saved and the lost would have eternal life. 

 

Maybe, or maybe the definition of death (θάνατος) in Rom 6:23 needs to be understood. Death, in scripture, is never an end, that is an entirely pagan concept. No, rather death is always a separation, in spiritual death we are separated from God, in physical death we are separated from our bodies and in eternal death we are separated from the goodness and mercy of God forever. Life, therefore, as the opposite of death is about union, union of body and soul, union with God. Hence the contrast Paul makes in Rom 6:23 is entirely with the biblical teaching of eternal punishment.   

 

 

Man, death is the opposite of life. Again literary gymnastics because now you have to define death as being not the end. 

 

Again same question to you. John 3:16 uses the word Perish. How does your definition of death agree with the idea of what it means to Perish. Now you need to define what it means to Perish. 

Also define what it means to destroy:

 

Mat 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 

 

How can something that is living forever perish or be destroyed?

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Everyone,

     Shiloh,BoPeep,FresnoJoe,DRS,& Reformed Baptist(Whom I welcome to Worthy )all have a clear understanding of the Scriptures & have tried to present them to you in their full context(Prophecy Kid)& since they have answered the questions that you posed to me there is nothing I need to add......all I can do is continue to pray that the Holy Spirit guide you into the Timeless Truths that are Written in His Word....as BoPeep has stated I too,cannot help you but love you & am praying for you.....yes,it is twisting the Scriptures when they are taken out of context & as Shiloh put it"Strung together like Christmas Lights"

      You have gotten confirmation from not 1,2 or 3 Brothers & Sisters in Christ but 5 or 6,is that not enough to rethink your interpretation?It takes complete submibssion to Christ,much humility & putting away ones pride to receive revelation by the Counselor,pray dear  brother & do not take offense.God bless you

                                                                                                                           With love,in Christ-Kwik

[Guest shiloh357]

Don't you see all of the literary gymnastics that needs to be done to support this belief. First you have to say that living forever is different to eternal life.

 

 

 

It isn't literary gymnastics.  It's theological reality.  Eternal Life is life that comes from God.  It is His life living within you.   That is a totally different than living forever.  Eternal life speaks to quality not quantity. 

 

 

Again I bring John 3:16

 

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH, but have everlasting life. 

 

So now you need to define what it means to perish and how can something that is living forever perish.

 To perish, in a spiritual/biblical sense, doesn't mean to cease to exist.  It means to die forever separated from God.  Those who die without Christ "perish" in that they are forever out of the presence of God and living for eternity in hell/the lake fire where their torment will never cease.  That is spiritual death.

 

 

And also what does everlasting life mean. The use of the conjunction "but" means that it is the opposite. So the opposite of Perish in this verse, is everlasting life. So how does that work?

 

The word for "everlasting" is in the Greek the word for eternal.   The word eternal in Greek is zoe and refers to the very life of God.  To have eternal life means to have God living within you in the Person of the Holy Spirit.

 

 

[donfish06]

 

Maybe, or maybe the definition of death (θάνατος) in Rom 6:23 needs to be understood. Death, in scripture, is never an end, that is an entirely pagan concept. No, rather death is always a separation, in spiritual death we are separated from God, in physical death we are separated from our bodies and in eternal death we are separated from the goodness and mercy of God forever. Life, therefore, as the opposite of death is about union, union of body and soul, union with God. Hence the contrast Paul makes in Rom 6:23 is entirely with the biblical teaching of eternal punishment.   

 

Right. Death is separation from God, but Rev 14:10  "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: "

 

Obviously these people will not be separated from God, seeing as they will be in the presence of the Lamb. The only way to be separated from an omniscient God is to be annihilated

 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Maybe, or maybe the definition of death (θάνατος) in Rom 6:23 needs to be understood. Death, in scripture, is never an end, that is an entirely pagan concept. No, rather death is always a separation, in spiritual death we are separated from God, in physical death we are separated from our bodies and in eternal death we are separated from the goodness and mercy of God forever. Life, therefore, as the opposite of death is about union, union of body and soul, union with God. Hence the contrast Paul makes in Rom 6:23 is entirely with the biblical teaching of eternal punishment.   

 

Right. Death is separation from God, but Rev 14:10  "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: "

 

Obviously these people will not be separated from God, seeing as they will be in the presence of the Lamb. The only way to be separated from an omniscient God is to be annihilated

 

 

 

Sinners are living in the presence of God, right now and they are separated from Him. Separation from God doesn't mean that one is not in God's presence.  It means that they are separated from His life.   It means that they are not made alive through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

Separation is not about not being in God's presence.  It is about God's presence not being within you.