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Luke 16:19-31 The Rich Man and Lazarus


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Posted

When Jesus was on the Cross their were two thieves,one on each side of Him.One was repentant and the other thief was not.Jesus said the the thief that was repentant "today you will be with me in Paradise".That indicates that after we die we immediately are in either heaven or hades.

 

Jesus did not go to heaven that day. He was in the grave 3 days. He rose to heaven much later. The belief is that there was a paradise that saved dead prior to Jesus resurrection were in. 


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Posted

Ok, just to be clear, DRS and other one, are you both saying that those who are dead physically can change their minds repent and get saved? Or am I misunderstanding your posts?


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Posted

Here's a from a free resource that allows reposting their material -Helltruth.  I didn't write this but it's what I'd say if I could speak so well.

 

The Rich Man & Lazarus

Doesn't the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 teach an eternal hell of torment?

No, Indeed! It is simply a parable used to emphasize a point. Many facts make it clear that this is a parable. A few are as follows:

  • Abraham's bosom is not heaven (Hebrews 11:8-10, 16)
  • People in hell can't talk to those in heaven (Isaiah 65: 17)
  • The dead are in their graves (Job 17:13; John 5:28, 29). The rich man was in bodily form with eyes, a tongue, etc., yet we know that the body does not go to hell at death. It is very obvious that the body remains in the grave, as the Bible says. If you'd like to know more about what happens after you die visit The Truth About Death website.
  • Men are rewarded at Christ's second coming, not at death (Revelation 22:11, 12)
  • The lost are punished in hell at the end of the world, not when they die (Matthew 13:40-42). The point of the story is found in verse 31 of Luke 16. Parables cannot be taken literally. If we took parables literally, then we must believe that trees talk! (See this parable in Judges 9:8-15).

By representing the beggar as being in heaven and the rich man as lost, Jesus taught His hearers that, contrary to the prevailing view, wealth was not necessarily an indicator of divine favor, just as poverty was not a sign of God's judgement upon a person.

Jesus was also seeking to educate the Jews that salvation would not be theirs by birthright. The rich man in torments calls out to "father Abraham," just as the Jews of Jesus' day were mistakenly pointing to heritage as proof of their assurance of salvation.

Furthermore, Jesus was seeking to lead His hearers to understand that only faithfulness to God's Word would prepare them to enter into eternal life. He told them, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead" (Luke 16:31).

 

Posted

Ok, just to be clear, DRS and other one, are you both saying that those who are dead physically can change their minds repent and get saved? Or am I misunderstanding your posts?

 

No, since this is a parable the rich man and Lazarus are not technically dead. Rather the parable is speaking about the condition of their spirit of unrepentance vs repentance.

Posted

 

Here's a from a free resource that allows reposting their material -Helltruth.  I didn't write this but it's what I'd say if I could speak so well.

 

The Rich Man & Lazarus

Doesn't the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 teach an eternal hell of torment?

No, Indeed! It is simply a parable used to emphasize a point. Many facts make it clear that this is a parable. A few are as follows:

  • Abraham's bosom is not heaven (Hebrews 11:8-10, 16)
  • People in hell can't talk to those in heaven (Isaiah 65: 17)
  • The dead are in their graves (Job 17:13; John 5:28, 29). The rich man was in bodily form with eyes, a tongue, etc., yet we know that the body does not go to hell at death. It is very obvious that the body remains in the grave, as the Bible says. If you'd like to know more about what happens after you die visit The Truth About Death website.
  • Men are rewarded at Christ's second coming, not at death (Revelation 22:11, 12)
  • The lost are punished in hell at the end of the world, not when they die (Matthew 13:40-42). The point of the story is found in verse 31 of Luke 16. Parables cannot be taken literally. If we took parables literally, then we must believe that trees talk! (See this parable in Judges 9:8-15).

By representing the beggar as being in heaven and the rich man as lost, Jesus taught His hearers that, contrary to the prevailing view, wealth was not necessarily an indicator of divine favor, just as poverty was not a sign of God's judgement upon a person.

Jesus was also seeking to educate the Jews that salvation would not be theirs by birthright. The rich man in torments calls out to "father Abraham," just as the Jews of Jesus' day were mistakenly pointing to heritage as proof of their assurance of salvation.

Furthermore, Jesus was seeking to lead His hearers to understand that only faithfulness to God's Word would prepare them to enter into eternal life. He told them, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead" (Luke 16:31).

 

Excellent post, but I would point out that "The lost are punished in hell at the end of the world, not when they die (Matthew 13:40-42)."..maybe a little off. The nonbelievers (soul/spirit) go to hell when they die awaiting judgment for their bodies, that's punishment enough. :wink1:

Guest shiloh357
Posted

 

You are exactly right, DRS81.

 

The Rich man in the parable represents the pharisees who cared nothing for the poor but were often wealthy men.  They got the best seats at the synagogue.  They were honored as they walked down the streets.   They were seen as "the men of God" while those who were poor were disenfranchised by these same "men  of God."  Jesus was telling them that their fortunes were about to be reversed and the poor people they despised in life will enter Kingdom and they who were thought to be the prime examples of godliness wil be in hell.

 

But if this parable is meant for nonbelievers to WAKE UP and repent, then why isn't Luke 16:19-31 changing their unbelief all around the world? Most nonbelievers don't even read the Bible.

 

I didn't say the parable was for nonbelivers.   If anything this parable was for the Pharisees, the religious community.

Guest shiloh357
Posted

 

Ok, just to be clear, DRS and other one, are you both saying that those who are dead physically can change their minds repent and get saved? Or am I misunderstanding your posts?

 

No, since this is a parable the rich man and Lazarus are not technically dead. Rather the parable is speaking about the condition of their spirit of unrepentance vs repentance.

 

No, they are dead and Jesus said they died.

Posted

 

 

You are exactly right, DRS81.

 

The Rich man in the parable represents the pharisees who cared nothing for the poor but were often wealthy men.  They got the best seats at the synagogue.  They were honored as they walked down the streets.   They were seen as "the men of God" while those who were poor were disenfranchised by these same "men  of God."  Jesus was telling them that their fortunes were about to be reversed and the poor people they despised in life will enter Kingdom and they who were thought to be the prime examples of godliness wil be in hell.

 

But if this parable is meant for nonbelievers to WAKE UP and repent, then why isn't Luke 16:19-31 changing their unbelief all around the world? Most nonbelievers don't even read the Bible.

 

I didn't say the parable was for nonbelivers.   If anything this parable was for the Pharisees, the religious community.

 

Pharisees are the definition of nonbelievers! Religious zealots vs. born again real believers. If you read this parable to a nonbeliever, he would laugh at you.

 

 

 

Ok, just to be clear, DRS and other one, are you both saying that those who are dead physically can change their minds repent and get saved? Or am I misunderstanding your posts?

 

No, since this is a parable the rich man and Lazarus are not technically dead. Rather the parable is speaking about the condition of their spirit of unrepentance vs repentance.

 

No, they are dead and Jesus said they died.

 

Now I'm really confused. You can't change your mind about repentance after you die.

Posted

Well, riddle me this.....     Why "do" they baptize for the dead???

 

I accept the idea that Paul didn't suggest baptizing for the dead had any merit but that the people who did this denied the resurrection so there was no point for them to do this. ( from commentary ) It's an interesting scripture.

Posted

Now I'm really confused. You can't change your mind about repentance after you die.

 

 

DRS why are you confused. The only people who are presented as able to repent are the living.

 

 

Luk 16:27-28  "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family,  (28)  for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

 

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