Considering the prophecy of Matthew 24:29

[Spock]

GW,

No doubt, the trumpet and bowl judgments are Gods Wrath being poured out on mankind. I would call that a judgment for sure. Not like the Great White throne judgment but definitely a judgment.

Also, I have no problem seeing the 6th seal cosmic disturbances as being distinct from the 4th trumpet cosmic disturbances. I think you were thinking these are similar. Sorry if I am misquoting you.

The 6th seal will, In my opinion, usher in the Lords return, and the whole world will see this, so I can see why the sky is going dark for this moment (not lasting).

[GlidingWings]

Hi Thunder. I thought you were post trib believer. Are you post or Pre trib?

 

Thunder did you read Revelation chapter 8 the first 4 Trumpets? I just read these to help me more to understand on the sun, moon, and stars aspect why they became darkened in the sky. Read these 4 first Trumpet Angels and especially the fourth who causes these Heavenly bodies to become 1/3 darkened.

 

At a Trumpet feast only would appear so gentle in a Great Tribulation aspect of events. The Jews would also be hiding in the wilderness. Even if the Jews see these signs they can’t do anything about the sun, moon, or the stars, only Jesus will rescue them at the End of the Trib. If Jesus only comes to pick up the Church to Rapture then the Jews are still stuck in the wilderness whom which Jesus is supposed to delver them out of the hands of the Antichrist that Jesus will destroy in the brightness of his second appearing.

 

Ok we don’t see the gathering and God’s wrath aspect. Matthew 24 or 1Thess that only shows the Rapture aspect. But in 2Thess we do see the gathering of the Lord. And the day of the Lord in scriptures Revelation 1-3 both the coming of the Lord and even his gathering mentioned in these 3 passages to show there is a connection to make these one event. Also if we compare Matt 24:29 to the sixth seal that Matt 24:29 shows the Rapture aspect while the sixth seal shows the wrath of God aspect. Read the sixth seal compared to Matt 24:29 signs. These are the same 4 signs mentioned more than once. . Matt 24 shows rapture aspect. Sixth seal the wrath aspect. 2Thess 2:1-3 these 2 happen after the antichrist be revealed.

 

The Church of Thessalonians after all was concerned and troubled and shaken in mind. When shall these things happen? Paul assures us the apostasy and the man of perdition Antichrist man must happen before the appearing Day of the Lord and the gathering to be with Jesus. 1Thess 4:16-17 only says they meet Jesus in the clouds and so shall ever be with him. In this verse actually does not say that they went neither up to the Third Heaven of the Throne or they came down also. This verse is neutral showing they only meet in the clouds to the Church to gather with the groom. Therefor 2Thess chapter 2 answers that question of 1Thess chapter 4.

 

When does this day happen? After apostasy and after the perdition. This also referred to the Day of the Lord. Because in chapter 2 see the gathering and now see the description of the antichrist. We see in this chapter both the gathering and the brightness of Jesus coming to destroy the Antichrist all in this one chapter alone. This shows the gathering and his second coming all in one day event. I am not one who will attempt to change the 2Thess aspect how these events are connected in a single chapter.

 

Now the mystery is when Jesus should gather the elect and those Christians who were not ready what will happen to them. First it may appear if the whole Church were taken no one can populate aspect. You are right that the whole Church won't see the Groom. They did not get to meet Jesus in the air. They were left. They were left as far as the gathering aspect only. The Christians who were left was the lost not being ready. In itself that is a punishment. What does it feel like the other Christians got to meet Jesus and you had to stay out of this gathering? These unready Christians will be saddened.

 

But I believe as you do they will continue to live through the millennium 1000 years. But not only them but also the remnant Jews when Jesus the Messiah returns. For they the Jews fled from Judea yet not knowing who the Messiah still is. They will when every eye sees him Rev. 1:8. Also it is possible there will be those people living on the Earth who did not take the mark nor did they also accept Jesus. . They also might have a chance to begin the 1000 years.

 

So who is killed off? The Antichrist the Second beast and false Prophet. The people of all nations free and slave all those who took the mark and followed this Beast plus all his armies will be killed by the sword Revelation chapter 19. So all those who had an connection with the second Beast Antichrist whether armies, kings, free, or slave who took the mark will be those judged in the first resurrection. Daniel 12:2 both the righteous and contempt will be called out of the dust by Michael the angel..

 

So the rest of the Christians who did not take the mark yet were also not ready to meet Jesus stayed on Earth as the end of the trib, Jesus return, the remnant Jews and possibly unbelievers who did not take the mark or accepted Messiah. They may be those who will start off the 1000 years. Only the most righteous gathered at the end of the Trib.

 

The question is now where did they they go? How will they rule on Earth? These 1000 years is the hardest era to know exactly how this Ruler ship is going to work for this 1000 years. Some say they will rule from the Third Heaven. Some say right here on Earth. This is kind of tricky to answer.

 

But even if we don’t understand this fully it’s not a mandatory thing we need to know. The best rule is to keep watch on Jesus at all times. Use our talents and keep our lamps full. Because even if we don’t understand the full mysteries yet by faith and by grace will one be saved” Because Jesus died on the cross for our sins.

Rapture is not the center of the Gospel. The blood Jesus poured out for all mankind is that center. We must believe in Jesus that all Jews and Gentiles of all believers place our hope in the Son of God.

 

I understand and will say clearly I don’t understand every aspect of Revelation or End time Bible prophecy. I have some parts and visions put together. Yet I don’t fully understand how all visions will be eventually put together and especially the 1000 years how this age will actually work.. Personally I don’t know one teacher Haggee, LaHayes, Greg Laurie and including any Mid and post trib teachers that seem to have all the End time Bible prophecy answers.

 

Even before Jesus was born some scholars said well Jesus would would be born in Egypt for it is written I shall call my Son out of Egypt. Other scholars said in BC age. That no He won't be born in Egypt He will be born in Nazareth for He shall be called a Nazarene. Yet a third might say no not Egypt nor Nazareth but Jesus will born in Capernaum by the region of Zebulin and Naphtali by the way of the sea. . see even these 3 BC scholars knew of Jesus locations. Yet neither of these 3 scholars had the correct answer Bethlehem. Its why many Jews won't accept Jesus. They don’t think He the Messiah was born in such a simple city as Bethlehem. .

 

They probably want to see him born in Jerusalem the city of the Great King or any other major city to make the Messiah be more important to the Jews. For He after all is Messiah. They don’t want to think Jesus is in the lower place. This is why they don't understand He Jesus the Son of God made Himself lower than angels.

 

And Jesus was also born in a simple Bethlehem no status area of greatness. Now it does have status that Jesus was born there. Matthew 2: 5-6 ‘One Ruler’ out of this city. not plural. The BC before Christ believes Jews did not know the future with argument and debates. We see the the past now and can judge by past history whom Jesus is now and where He is born. Now that Revelation is future events we stand where the BC scholars did. Now we also debate of this Future end time events. In God's time this will all fold out. .

 

If anyone wants to continue debating this topic they may do so. So far I think I said pretty much what I needed beyond this I am not sure. .

[Spock]

For the record GW,

I don't usually debate topics, I rather just throw out my thoughts, listen to yours, ask questions for clarity, ponder it all, and then move on.

I have no desire for you to believe what I believe. You do your own research and study and figure it out for yourself. We are all grown ups here.

I even taught my daughter that way. I told her that my faith cannot be hers, but only mine. You have to figure it out for yourself. Sure, I told her what I think, but I always reminded her, your faith will be much stronger if you are active in your pursuit, and not just a passive receiver.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hi Thunder. I thought you were post trib believer. Are you post or Pre trib?

Hi GW,

Wow! You sure put a lot on my plate, brother!

None of the above. I was a pre-tribber for about 15 years, but not anymore. I now believe the pre-trib theory has more holes than all of the other theories, though I wish it were true. Post-trib, sure the rapture will occur after the tribulation, but not a 7 yr. trib. The days of tribulation are cut short for the sake of the elect and no one knows the day or hour. But post-trib has the rapture and second coming occurring at once, so count me out. Mid-trib is actually mid-70th week, and is also when the abomination of desolation occurs, which will trigger the trib, so the rapture won't happen then either, since the rapture occurs after the trib. Post-trib/pre-wrath: now we're getting somewhere, but only as far as the timing goes. They still say the entire Church will be raptured. I guess there's no need for believers to be ready then, if that's the case. Maybe Jesus was just kidding about that, huh? I don't think so.

Anyway, I saw holes in all of these theories. So I was determined to start studying the Bible and trying to plug as many of these holes as I could. I found that there are way too many assumptions, misconceptions, misinterpretations and myths that are really confusing a lot of believers, so I wiped the slate clean and started from scratch again, without any preconceived beliefs or ideas.  Then I was studying with a ton of questions and it took years of diligent study, but I kept pressing on and I ended up writing a book.  It was only after I finished my book that I discovered I had actually developed my own theory. It was nothing that I set out to do.  It just came to me as I was breaking down the Scriptures verse by verse.  Most scholars stop at the end of Matt. 24, but not me.  I kept rolling right through chapter 25 as well, because that's where Christ concluded His answer to His disciples question.  People don't realize it, but as long as they keep clinging to these assumptions and misconceptions, they may never understand the resurrection/rapture until it happens. Jesus laid it all out. It's right there in plain view, but we can't see the forest for the trees.

 

Thunder did you read Revelation chapter 8 the first 4 Trumpets? I just read these to help me more to understand on the sun, moon, and stars aspect why they became darkened in the sky. Read these 4 first Trumpet Angels and especially the fourth who causes these Heavenly bodies to become 1/3 darkened.

Honestly, I don't understand why you would go to Revelation and start studying the seals and trumpet judgments, if you want to learn about the sign of the Son of man (rapture), which we know comes before God's wrath. The rapture will be like it was in the days of Noah. Noah was rescued from God's wrath. It had nothing to do with Christ coming then, so why would it now? Who is Christ warning to be ready? Who are the two in the field and the two women grinding in the mill? Who are the ten virgins? Who are those that received talents? All of these questions relate to Christ' answer to His disciples question in Matt. 24:3, about the sign of His coming and nothing else. If you want the rest of His answer, about the sign of the end of the age, then go to Matt. 25:31-46.

 

I'm sure I didn't answer these questions to your satisfaction, but you're really asking a lot here. With all of these questions, you have a lot of studying to do.  But keep pressing on, you'll get there. 

 

Cheers

[Spock]

Hi Thunder. I thought you were post trib believer. Are you post or Pre trib?

Hi GW,

Wow! You sure put a lot on my plate, brother!

None of the above. I was a pre-tribber for about 15 years, but not anymore. I now believe the pre-trib theory has more holes than all of the other theories, though I wish it were true. Post-trib, sure the rapture will occur after the tribulation, but not a 7 yr. trib. The days of tribulation are cut short for the sake of the elect and no one knows the day or hour. But post-trib has the rapture and second coming occurring at once, so count me out. Mid-trib is actually mid-70th week, and is also when the abomination of desolation occurs, which will trigger the trib, so the rapture won't happen then either, since the rapture occurs after the trib. Post-trib/pre-wrath: now we're getting somewhere, but only as far as the timing goes. They still say the entire Church will be raptured. I guess there's no need for believers to be ready then, if that's the case. Maybe Jesus was just kidding about that, huh? I don't think so.

Anyway, I saw holes in all of these theories. So I was determined to start studying the Bible and trying to plug as many of these holes as I could. I found that there are way too many assumptions, misconceptions, misinterpretations and myths that are really confusing a lot of believers, so I wiped the slate clean and started from scratch again, without any preconceived beliefs or ideas.  Then I was studying with a ton of questions and it took years of diligent study, but I kept pressing on and I ended up writing a book.  It was only after I finished my book that I discovered I had actually developed my own theory. It was nothing that I set out to do.  It just came to me as I was breaking down the Scriptures verse by verse.  Most scholars stop at the end of Matt. 24, but not me.  I kept rolling right through chapter 25 as well, because that's where Christ concluded His answer to His disciples question.  People don't realize it, but as long as they keep clinging to these assumptions and misconceptions, they may never understand the resurrection/rapture until it happens. Jesus laid it all out. It's right there in plain view, but we can't see the forest for the trees.

 

Thunder did you read Revelation chapter 8 the first 4 Trumpets? I just read these to help me more to understand on the sun, moon, and stars aspect why they became darkened in the sky. Read these 4 first Trumpet Angels and especially the fourth who causes these Heavenly bodies to become 1/3 darkened.

Honestly, I don't understand why you would go to Revelation and start studying the seals and trumpet judgments, if you want to learn about the sign of the Son of man (rapture), which we know comes before God's wrath. The rapture will be like it was in the days of Noah. Noah was rescued from God's wrath. It had nothing to do with Christ coming then, so why would it now? Who is Christ warning to be ready? Who are the two in the field and the two women grinding in the mill? Who are the ten virgins? Who are those that received talents? All of these questions relate to Christ' answer to His disciples question in Matt. 24:3, about the sign of His coming and nothing else. If you want the rest of His answer, about the sign of the end of the age, then go to Matt. 25:31-46.

 

I'm sure I didn't answer these questions to your satisfaction, but you're really asking a lot here. With all of these questions, you have a lot of studying to do.  But keep pressing on, you'll get there. 

 

Cheers

RT,

I love your style here, like any good teacher, you throw out just enough to catch the fish, before you hook him in.

Knowing GW as I do, I'm sure he is all in on this one. You could expect to continue this dialog because that brother is tenacious when he gets fixed on a topic. He too really wants to find contentment in knowing when the rapture will occur. I think he feels confident in what he believes, but you may have baited him enough here to want to know what you are thinking.

His reply should be fun to monitor. I have my popcorn ready.

Spock out

[wingnut-]

Pls what do you all think about Matthew chapter 24 verse 29. Does the prophecy imply being literal or symbolic? I have my own symbolic interpretation but I don't know your own opinions. I will gladly quote the passage. "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky and the powers of space will be shaken" Concerning the part which says the moon will not shine, on my own opinion it means Islam will cease as a common religion or will cease to dominate the earth since the moon is a symbol of Islam. Islam will not give its light. I don't know the part about the sun but it should also be symbolic. The stars, in prophecy represents an angel. So the stars of heaven that will fall are perhaps fallen angels or spirits of the sky or gods that will lose their position in heavens. This may mean that worship of idols will cease. The powers of space or the heavens are perhaps the planets or stars or hosts. They will be shaken. The ancient Romans worshipped gods which had the name of planets for example Mercury the messenger of the gods and Jupiter the king. So the powers of heaven being shaken may mean that the planets which represent Roman gods will be shaken from their course. It may mean that Roman worship of gods or idolatry as a whole will cease to exist. Whereby God will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed. Islam and other pagan forms of worship will stop during or after the tribulation of those days. Pls I need your opinions.

I believe it means this as literal, but I don't dismiss there is a symbolic meaning to it as well, there have been some interesting posts on this.  I also believe it represents the same sign we see after the opening of the sixth seal (Rev. 6:12-17).  I believe someone already pointed out that Zechariah prophesied about this very thing, and it also gives clearer understanding to every eye seeing Him come as He will be the only light in the sky.

 

The symbolism of the stars for angels is definitely true, we see that in Revelation multiple times as well as other places in the bible.  However, I'm not sure that I see it aligning with scripture in this instance due to the timing of this sign.  The reason I say that is because of this passage from Revelation 9.

 

Revelation 9    The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. ² When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.

 

The star becomes a he in verse 2, and we all know that Satan is an angel.  This event happens to coincide with what we see in Revelation 13 as well.

 

Revelation 13:The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. ⁶ It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. ⁷ It was given power to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. ⁸ All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

⁹ Whoever has ears, let them hear.

¹⁰ “If anyone is to go into captivity,

    into captivity they will go.

If anyone is to be killed with the sword,

    with the sword they will be killed.”

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.

 

This is the point at which the anti-christ rises from the fatal head wound, as well as the implementation of the mark of the beast by the false prophet.  It also coincides with the time Jesus tells those living in Judea to flee immediately. (Matthew 24:15-18)  I think it is obvious that at some point the devil will be thrown out of heaven permanently, it is established in Job that he still has access to God.  In Revelation 12 we see this happen.

 

Through the first five verses of chapter 12, it appears as though we are being told about a past event, based on the information given to establish who the characters are.  You are right to say the woman is Israel (the nation), because clearly the church did not give birth to Jesus, Jesus gave birth to the church via the Holy Spirit as recorded by the apostles in Acts 2.  In verse 6 we see something that has not happened yet.

 

Revelation 12:⁶ The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

 

The middle section of chapter 12 establishes more information, we see the accuser of the brothers being thrown down, there is rejoicing in heaven, but woe to the earth and sea because the devil is there, furious, and short on time.  He immediately pursues the woman, who is taken to safety for 3 1/2 years out of the devil's reach.  The exact amount of time that the anti-christ has authority.  The dragon goes off to make war against the rest of her offspring, the ingrafted gentiles.

 

Revelation 12:¹⁷ Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

 

Hosea prophesied about this long ago, and no one seems to want to account for this prophecy.  Most people have the Jews evangelizing or getting beheaded, but a close examination of the first 3 chapters of Hosea puts it into context.

 

Hosea 2:

¹⁴ “Therefore I am now going to allure her;

    I will lead her into the wilderness

    and speak tenderly to her.

¹⁵ There I will give her back her vineyards,

    and will make the Valley of Achor a door of hope.

There she will respond as in the days of her youth,

    as in the day she came up out of Egypt.

¹⁶ “In that day,” declares the Lord,

    “you will call me ‘my husband’;

    you will no longer call me ‘my master.’

 

I love how he illustrates this, allure her to the desert where He will tenderly speak to her, or in other words, bring them to belief.  While this is going on, war is being waged against the church.  There is also more confirmation from scripture in regards to this, we see the absence of the Jews in Israel from several passages which address the same length of time.

 

Revelation 11  I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. ² But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.

 

and also here...

 

Luke 21:²⁴ They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

 

It amazes me when anyone eludes to signs not being for us.  If that were the case, then the book of Revelation doesn't belong in the bible, along with a large majority of what Jesus had to say since He was fond of using parables and signs.  Are rainbows not meant for us to see either?

 

If you aren't seeing the signs, you are missing out on quite a bit.  The entire bible is filled with symbolism, old and new testaments.

[GlidingWings]

Hi wingnut. Thanks for joining in this Prophecy End time discussion hosted by our good friend kingdom witness opening poster.   I really appreciate much the aspect and dimensions you add in scripture to unfold these End time events. I admit this part I need more study concerning some of these things you have brought out. I learned something new from your post. How Satan used to be able in Job visit God. Now He is permanently banned in the Book of Revelation showing us this is past but rather Futuristic.

 

Please forgive me but recently I had been posting with a Preterism believer.   Shall I make this topic discussion more interesting. Lets make this a “Combo” Preterist and Futurism Revelation study where we can combine 70 AD with 21 century combined future and past events. Let's add Nero who to help Satan punish people in Revelation. Let's combine Rev 17 as being both Rome and Jerusalem. For yes they share the Mediterranean Sea after all. Let she the woman be manifested in 2 forms the Vatican Church and the great city Jerusalem. Nero wants to be in this picture. Ok I’m just kidding about all this Preterist mix stuff but I thought it to be entertaining get the past and future both in one book..

 

Now more on the serious side. Thanks Spock for the kind words you had shared. You're right I, also like the others, already have Pre existing Rapture Second coming beliefs. So I am not lost. Just like everyone else looking for the right answers. Spock knows I like other posters am trying hard to find out the answers to these scriptures how they all work and fit together. I got a number of them assembled. But I have other portions like wingnut brought in as I need more reading and study how those parts fit in. Working with a basic outline and trying to add other parts as they come along randomly even on days I don’t expect to find these answers..

 

To Thunder.. I’m sorry I asked too many questions at one time. It was not my intention to overwhelm how much you would need to answer at one time. I'm starting to understand what you're saying Thunder about these holes.

 

I agree with you that Pre Trib Rapture has the most mistakes where even my girlfriend who is not a Prophecy expert was easily to find the problems in Pre Trib Rapture theory. As I told one friend Pre trib rapture is a “Theory’ but truth. When I go to older commentaries I usually don’t have any problem running into Pre trib since it was believed less and not even in existance before the 19^th century. .

 

But let's not make this a pre and post trib debate here. For then that will take us off track. Rather whether one is Pre Mid or Post let focus on Futurist aspect Bible prophecy in this thread topic.

 

Thunder I think perhaps you might be running into some problems as I have concerning God’s wrath and the timing of the Rapture. Who will be raptured and who will not.? Who will see Jesus coming in his wrath and who will survive these things? Plus things like this if Jesus returns at the end of the trib . Why would Jesus rule an imperfect 1000 years on Earth? Why would Jesus want an imperfect kingdom 1000 years that will still see the war of Gog and Magog at the end of those years just before the second resurrection? These are things I struggle to try to make sense out of. At this time you don't have to answer these questions I just asked.

 

For now I ask this. I see you do believe both the Rapture and second coming do happen after the revealing of the Abomination. So now I ask when do you believe the rapture will occur? You believe this as one separate event at the end of the trib? . Now if the rapture and if the second coming happens after as it should when do yo believe the Second coming His wrath is to take place? Are you saying at the End of the 1000 years? How far apart do you think the Rapture and Second coming happen?

[rollinTHUNDER]

Thunder I think perhaps you might be running into some problems as I have concerning God’s wrath and the timing of the Rapture. Who will be raptured and who will not.? Who will see Jesus coming in his wrath and who will survive these things? Plus things like this if Jesus returns at the end of the trib .

I appreciate your concerns, GW, but you should know that I'm not the one who is searching for these answers. In post #8 I gave a nutshell version of what I believe will happen to not only those who are ready and go in the rapture, but also those who are left and become martyrs afterward, while also identifying who the sheep are that are separated from the goats at His second coming at the end of the age. I also know who those men are that will seek death, but death will flee from them. No other theory that I'm aware of even attempts to identify who these men are and/or why they won't be able to die. It's amazing what we can find when we remove the assumptions and myths.

If you want to continue this discussion, then answer the questions I asked you in the previous post....Who is Christ warning to be ready? Who are the two in the field and the two women grinding in the mill? Who are the ten virgins? Who are those that received talents? These questions must be answered if you're going to understand the rapture. But I get the feeling that you are one that believes Matt. 24 is the second coming. If so, it is not workable. Just take the two in the field, one was taken and the other left, for example...

I see people arguing all the time, over which one of these was the evil one. Either way, it does not work if you think this is the second coming and God's wrath. If you say the one that was taken was raptured and the one that was left was swept away and destroyed, then who will be left to re-populate the earth and who will the saints reign over in the millennium? There won't be anyone left. On the other hand, if you say those taken were destroyed, then those that were left will remain on the earth, but what about the rapture? Both of these scenarios have holes. The only possible way this makes sense at all, is when both are saints, while one is the faithful servant that was ready, and the other was the lazy servant that gets caught unaware of His masters coming for them. You may not see it this way, but this mystery is already solved as far as I'm concerned. There are no holes here. And I really don't mind if you disagree, that's no problem at all. You're free to work it out your own way.

 

Why would Jesus rule an imperfect 1000 years on Earth? Why would Jesus want an imperfect kingdom 1000 years that will still see the war of Gog and Magog at the end of those years just before the second resurrection? These are things I struggle to try to make sense out of. At this time you don't have to answer these questions I just asked.

Sorry, but I don't have the foggiest idea of what you're talking about here.

 

For now I ask this. I see you do believe both the Rapture and second coming do happen after the revealing of the Abomination. So now I ask when do you believe the rapture will occur? You believe this as one separate event at the end of the trib? . Now if the rapture and if the second coming happens after as it should when do yo believe the Second coming His wrath is to take place? Are you saying at the End of the 1000 years? How far apart do you think the Rapture and Second coming happen?

I will never be a date setter, for no one can know the day and hour. I won't even try to predict the year. All I can say is keep a very close eye on the scriptures. We'll know when the time is getting near. I do know that the rapture and second coming are not the same event. Those who are ready and go in the rapture, these will be going to the wedding supper (read Luke 12:35-48 to prove this).

Now if you want to know about the second coming and the Day of the Lord wrath, (read Matt. 25:31-46). The goats, those who destroy the earth will be killed and the sheep will enter into the millennial kingdom. I can not and will not be able to tell you how far apart the rapture and second coming are, and I don't believe anyone else can answer that question either.

Cheers

[GlidingWings]

Hi Thunder. So far I don’t think as of yet what you shared fixes all the problems of the End times. I honestly can say I agree with someone or I disagree. Mostly because every Christian and Believer should know that only ‘God” has the answers to all mysteries, truth, knowledge, revelations, parables, symbolic allegoric and even plain language. I believe it was wing nut that says we seem to have a problem when there are some who say here we know more than Paul, Peter, or these Disciples. Somehow some believers they are more knowing of the word even greater than John of Revelation.

 

But who is the truth of Revelation John? No John is not the true Author. John only records the Word of the true author Jesus Christ. So this is God’s Testimony. If that is the case then God is and must be always right. If you believe the mystery is already solved I don’t believe as of yet these mysteries are all solved. I think because these are future events. That actually once they do get unfolded they will make more sense than what we believe now. Even after Jesus rose on the Third Day Old Testament suddenly made a lot of sense.

 

 You believe when Jesus returns that no one will be saved? Well I see the signs in Matthew 24:29 and I also see the Sixth seal with the same 4 exact signs.. I believe it is more than a coincidence both parts show the sun is darkened or as Sackcloth the moon not giving its light, the Blood moon, the heavens shaken and the stars fallen. Because the sixth seal in my opinion agrees with Matthew 24:29.

 

However Matthew 24 shows the gathering aspect of these 4 signs. And Revelation 6 now shows the wrath with these 4 signs. Why did not God put the Sixth seal and Matt 24:29 in one place? I’m not sure why. However please look at 2Thess 2:1-3 is both the gathering and the Day of the Lord. But side by side to these verses 4-11 now shows the coming of his Brightness. The gathering and Jesus wrath all in one chapter Thess 2.

 

See in Revelation 19 they are in the Heaven. They are at the supper of the lamb. This is the gathering of the Elect. Gen. 1:8 ⁸ And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

 

Now see in that very same chapter 19 Jesus comes down on a white Horse with those other Horses. The Faithful whom follow after Jesus to destroy the armies of the antichrist And all those who followed after the Beast. So 2Thess and Revelation 19 shows the gathering supper of the lamb and the wrath of God all both in one chapter together side by side. That’s why I believe these will happen in one day..

 

Wait you say but who is going to survive? Isn’t everyone supposed to die at this point? No I don’t believe everyone dies. But I believe everyone who had any part with the Beast will die. So who is to be killed ? The antichrist the false Prophet the armies of his. The kings of the earth. Their armies especially those ten horn rulers. Then all those free slave of every kind who also took the mark also were killed when Jesus returned.

 

Who then is alive? The remnant Jews first who hid in the wilderness which they will believe Jesus as Messiah. 2. Christians who were not ready to meet Jesus at his coming. They did not receive Eternal Life. 3 other people who did not take the mark but neither did they accept Jesus as the Lord and Savior.

 

So these Parables you speak of those who were left only show that they don’t meet the Lord in the air they were left. But now see they were not killed either. Why weren’t they killed? because these will be the ones Jesus will allow to live in the1000 years. .

 

So it is like this Matt 24:29 aka the sixth seal Jesus appears in the clouds The Angels first gathering the Elect for they are the true and righteous of God and had endured all things . They received a new body they received the crown of Life. They will never see the second Death. These are those who will rule with Christ 1000 years. This is the Gathering of the elect which will happen in a Twinkling of an Eye. 

1 Corinthians 15:52 (NKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

Michael the arch Angel will call them out of the Graves to gather them unto Jesus who has returned in the clouds. First those who were Dead and sleeping in Christ who were in the Dust of the Earth. Dan. 12:2

² And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

And this called the 1st resurrection.

 

Next the other Arch or powerful Angels now round up those alive in Christ. All this ‘instamatic’ super speedy quick a Twinkling of an Eye.

 

Next after they are Gathered Rev 19 Jesus will be the first to go down from the first Heaven and they who were raptured then should follow after He who is true and faithful. This will be the time of the “Armageddon war sometimes called the Megiddo war of the valley of Megiddo.

For unto this day is the “Thief in the Night” for those who were not looking for Jesus were surprised as a Thief to that they were not ready. Those unready Christians were not in the rapture supper of the Lamb. They did not receive Eternal life. They were left on Earth yet not killed. So Jesus comes down with a sword and smites only those people who took part in any involvement with the second Beast “Antichrist ‘ in Revelation.

 

So any person of any status at any position all over the Earth who took this mark or had any loyalty to the Beast were all killed. This means a large number of people will be killed. It will seem like the End of the World. Close enough yes. But not so.

 

For even Noah and his family were spared to repopulate the Earth. So the remaining living are the saints in their new bodies living forever 1. 2 Remnant Jews. 3 Christians not ready for the Rapture. 4. possibly non believers who did not take the mark and nor accept Jesus. So whoever did not follow after the Beast remained on Earth to repopulate the 1000 years. So the World was”Almost’ wiped out that is why Matt 24:21 Those Days were shortened for the Elects sake.

 

So the Gathering of the elect and his wrath happen on the same day. That’s why this is called The Day of the Lord or The Day of the Son of Man. Because if you say even for one moment that Jesus will appear in 2 more circumstances then you see this will be called a third appearance. Even when the moon appears in the sky that counts as appearing. So if Jesus came to Rapture first and returns later that would be his third time appearing which I don't believe will happen. Jesus will only return once. Is once why it is called His Second coming.? Any in between Rapture would make the second appearing to be not true.

 

Well as you said we are all allowed to agree or disagree. I hope what I have wrote all makes sense. If there are some confusing parts in my posts I will try to clarify them to make them simpler.

After all some of my posts including this one are long and hard to grasp everything at once.

Edited January 13, 2014 by GlidingWings

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hi Thunder. So far I don’t think as of yet what you shared fixes all the problems of the End times. I honestly can say I agree with someone or I disagree. Mostly because every Christian and Believer should know that only ‘God” has the answers to all mysteries, truth, knowledge, revelations, parables, symbolic allegoric and even plain language. I believe it was wing nut that says we seem to have a problem when there are some who say here we know more than Paul, Peter, or these Disciples. Somehow some believers they are more knowing of the word even greater than John of Revelation.

GW,

Once again, you have bitten off much more than I care to chew in one sitting. Have you ever considered posting shorter posts? I'm sure it's no problem for you to write such long and drawn out posts, but you are not being very considerate to those who you want to reply. Take a good long break, because I'm going to have to break this up into several segments in order to make it more manageable. So please do not reply until I'm completely finished, which will require patients on your part, because it will take me a while to finish this. I'm not even sure I'll be finished tonight. I have other things to do as well.

Let me start by saying you have really misunderstood much of what I've said. And if you do that with my writing, what about scripture? This thread is about Matthew 24:29. Matt. 24 & 25 are solved in my mind and have been for a few years now. I never stated that I have solved all mysteries in the Bible, nor did I ever claim to know more than the disciples. You are the one that carried this over to Revelation, because you believe the signs are the same. I do not believe the signs are the same. The sun may be the same, as well as the stars, but the appearance of the moon is much different. In Matthew the moon will not give its light, but in Revelation 6:12 the moon became blood. A blood moon is an eclipse, so there is a HUGE difference here. As far as I'm concerned, there is no warrant here to jump on over to Revelation.

 

But who is the truth of Revelation John? No John is not the true Author. John only records the Word of the true author Jesus Christ. So this is God’s Testimony. If that is the case then God is and must be always right. If you believe the mystery is already solved I don’t believe as of yet these mysteries are all solved. I think because these are future events. That actually once they do get unfolded they will make more sense than what we believe now. Even after Jesus rose on the Third Day Old Testament suddenly made a lot of sense.

Once again, I made no claims as to having solved all mysteries and prophecies. There are plenty of things that I don't understand yet. However, I do whole heartedly believe that it is possible to solve some of these mysteries. It's not easy by any means, but not impossible. It's like putting a gigantic puzzle together, and the puzzle pieces and clues have been scattered everywhere in God's word. It takes years of study, but you know you are close when there's no more holes and none of the other scriptures contradict your work.

That's it for now. I'll try to come back later and take another little bite, but please don't put anymore on my plate yet. If you want to reply to this, please wait.

Cheers