The Distant Starlight Problem

[Guest shiloh357]

I wasn't trying to convince you or anyone that I know exactly. I was just giving my theory. I believe the correct terminology is "became" and there are other verses that speak to Satan falling and being admonished in many stones and jewels.

 

Why do you believe the correct word is became?   You, like others are making a textual argument, but up to this point can't really provide any textual evidence.  I have Hebrew and history on my side.   I have every mainstream translator and scholar of Hebrew on my side who say the correct word in Gen. 1:2 is "was" not "became."   You, Spock and Shar have wishful thinking, but pretty much nothing more.   I am curious, though, if anyone can actually make a textual argument.

 

 

That was before he tempted Eve. That was before the fall.

 

i agree.  Satan's fall occured before He tempted eve and before Adam fell. 

 

 

Adam and Eve's creation was not on the same day.

 

Oh yes it was.  Adam and Eve were both created on day six (Gen. 1:26-27)   Now, in Gen. 2: 7-25 we have more details about the events of day six.  You need to read your Bible.

 

 

Adam was at the task of naming all the animals and plants and over time realized he was lonely. How much time had passed? We do not know. You can assume your thoughts and I can assume mine.

 

As you can see above, I don't have to rely on assumptions.  I have the Word of God that informs me.  I don't have dream up fairy tales and baseless theories.  I actually read the Bible and believe it.

 

When did time exactly begin? The bible starts out, "In the beginning..." When was this beginning? Again, I am NOT NOT NOT NOT a supporter of gap theory.

 

 

I am not sure that you completely understand  why others are vigorously defending the reason why Gen. 1:2 should be rendered "became" instead of, "was."  And I am curious if you fuly understand the Gap Theory, because the gap theoriists seem to agree with you.

 

 

You keep saying I am because I am suggesting the earth had a purpose before creation week. I am only going by what I see in the bible

 

.And so far, you have not really explained what the purpose was.  If you are going by what you see in the Bible, what does the Bible say that purpose was?  I would be interested to see those Scriptures.

 

 

Would it be so bad if the earth existed in the past before God decided to use it? Really, please tell me the harm such an idea would do to Christians? I just don't think (my opinion) that God sat by for an eternity past and did nothing. It is possible He created other earths in this vast universe.

 

 My resistance to the claim doesn't stem from the idea that is harmful to Christians if God created other earths and earthlings.  My resistence to it is rooted in biblical truth.   You just said that you are going by what you see in the Bible, but you can't make biblical argument.  Your arguemnt is rooted in imagination.   You imagine that God, in the dateless past must have made other earths. Would it be fair to say that you believe those earths were/are populated by other "earthlings?   But you can't provide any Scripture that even hints at such a thing. 

 

The harm being done doesn't lie in the fact that God may have done things in the past that we don't know about.  The harm being done is that people are trying to fill in the gaps of information with their imaginary scenarios and theories that have no root in biblical truth and what's worse is that they are intepreting the Bible by those imaginary scenarios instead of by sound hermeneutic principles.

 

You just seem very closed minded to any thoughts outside of the text in Genesis.

 

In Genesis, I have the truth.   Why is holding to the truth, "closed minded?"  Am I closed minded because I won't accept a flat earth?  Am I closed minded because I don't think the sun revolves around the earth??    One thing I have learned is that it's okay to be closed minded when you're right.   

 

I have the truth of Scripture and so far, none of your arguments have cited Scripture.  Why should I be open to interpreting the Bible in the light of your colorful imagination? 

 

I am not saying anything that is contrary to the text...I believe the text wholeheartedly.

 

If you believed the text, howcome you can't make a textual argument citing Scripture???   I mean you keep claiming to believe the text, but you can't find anything in the text to cite that says God was making other earths for millions of years before He made our earth.

 

 

I am imaginative by nature. Do you not sit and wonder what Heaven must be like and how life would be like without the concept of time?

 

I wonder about a lot of things the Bible doesn't expclicitly tell us.

 

I don't use my imagination to fill in those gaps, pencil my imagination into the Bible and then accuse people of being closed minded because they refuse to see the Bible in the light of whatever pops into my head.  I don't use my imagination to interpret Scripture and pretend that my imagination serves as a standard of measure for truth.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Shiloh

        God bless you Shiloh.....all you are saying ,over & over again ,& I do not understand why anyone can not relate to your example of "Standing firmly,rooted & grounded in the Word of God"........there is much harm in wanting to believe or even consider that the earth had supported life in a time past or anything that contradicts what God says because the Author & Finisher of our Faith says "in the beginning"and prior to that He tells us it was formless and VOID.....to even suggest that it was anything other than what God says it "was" would mean not trusting what is written.To condone this way of thinking is to say it is alright to add or subtract from the Word of God & we are clearly forbidden to do so

       Having an imagination as some would call it,is a wonderful thing to imagine a world without sin or the Beauty of Heaven and how we will be awestruck when we finally can bask in the Glory of God but to let the imagination sway our minds into thinking other than the simple truth of Gods Word is giving an open invitation to the enemy's favorite playground....our thoughts.....that is the danger

         The Word of God is our Sword of the Spirit,this is our weapon........Gods Timeless Truth,Jesus paid the ultimate price that gives us the Authority to to pick up His Sword in His Name.......we must have faith that every single Word is True or we will be of no effect against the god of this world...................His Living Word is our Treasure & nothing is left to the imagination..............Praise & Glory to God

                                                                                                                With love,in Christ-Kwi9k

[Spock]

Blessings Shiloh

        God bless you Shiloh.....all you are saying ,over & over again ,& I do not understand why anyone can not relate to your example of "Standing firmly,rooted & grounded in the Word of God"........there is much harm in wanting to believe or even consider that the earth had supported life in a time past or anything that contradicts what God says because the Author & Finisher of our Faith says "in the beginning"and prior to that He tells us it was formless and VOID.....to even suggest that it was anything other than what God says it "was" would mean not trusting what is written.To condone this way of thinking is to say it is alright to add or subtract from the Word of God & we are clearly forbidden to do so

       Having an imagination as some would call it,is a wonderful thing to imagine a world without sin or the Beauty of Heaven and how we will be awestruck when we finally can bask in the Glory of God but to let the imagination sway our minds into thinking other than the simple truth of Gods Word is giving an open invitation to the enemy's favorite playground....our thoughts.....that is the danger

         The Word of God is our Sword of the Spirit,this is our weapon........Gods Timeless Truth,Jesus paid the ultimate price that gives us the Authority to to pick up His Sword in His Name.......we must have faith that every single Word is True or we will be of no effect against the god of this world...................His Living Word is our Treasure & nothing is left to the imagination..............Praise & Glory to God

                                                                                                                With love,in Christ-Kwi9k

Hey kwik, I hear what you are saying, but would you feel the same way if you were convinced this is not a young universe both biblically and scripturally?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Blessings Shiloh

        God bless you Shiloh.....all you are saying ,over & over again ,& I do not understand why anyone can not relate to your example of "Standing firmly,rooted & grounded in the Word of God"........there is much harm in wanting to believe or even consider that the earth had supported life in a time past or anything that contradicts what God says because the Author & Finisher of our Faith says "in the beginning"and prior to that He tells us it was formless and VOID.....to even suggest that it was anything other than what God says it "was" would mean not trusting what is written.To condone this way of thinking is to say it is alright to add or subtract from the Word of God & we are clearly forbidden to do so

       Having an imagination as some would call it,is a wonderful thing to imagine a world without sin or the Beauty of Heaven and how we will be awestruck when we finally can bask in the Glory of God but to let the imagination sway our minds into thinking other than the simple truth of Gods Word is giving an open invitation to the enemy's favorite playground....our thoughts.....that is the danger

         The Word of God is our Sword of the Spirit,this is our weapon........Gods Timeless Truth,Jesus paid the ultimate price that gives us the Authority to to pick up His Sword in His Name.......we must have faith that every single Word is True or we will be of no effect against the god of this world...................His Living Word is our Treasure & nothing is left to the imagination..............Praise & Glory to God

                                                                                                                With love,in Christ-Kwi9k

Hey kwik, I hear what you are saying, but would you feel the same way if you were convinced this is not a young universe both biblically and scripturally?

 

Perhaps if you could actually come up with something from the Bible that identifies a pre-adamite earth, it might make a difference.   So far, you are shooting blanks.

[Guest]

God bless you Shiloh....

 

.....all you are saying, over & over again, & I do not understand why anyone can not relate to your example of "Standing firmly, rooted & grounded in the Word of God"....

 

....there is much harm in wanting to believe or even consider that the earth had supported life in a time past or anything that contradicts what God says because the Author & Finisher of our Faith says "in the beginning"and prior to that He tells us it was formless and VOID....

 

....to even suggest that it was anything other than what God says it "was" would mean not trusting what is written....

 

....To condone this way of thinking is to say it is alright to add or subtract from the Word of God & we are clearly forbidden to do so....

 

....Having an imagination as some would call it,is a wonderful thing to imagine a world without sin or the Beauty of Heaven and how we will be awestruck when we finally can bask in the Glory of God but to let the imagination sway our minds into thinking other than the simple truth of Gods Word is giving an open invitation to the enemy's favorite playground....our thoughts.....that is the danger....

 

....The Word of God is our Sword of the Spirit,this is our weapon....

 

....Gods Timeless Truth,Jesus paid the ultimate price that gives us the Authority to to pick up His Sword in His Name....

 

....we must have faith that every single Word is True or we will be of no effect against the god of this world....

 

....His Living Word is our Treasure & nothing is left to the imagination....

 

....Praise & Glory to God....

 

....but would you feel the same way if you were convinced this is not a young universe both biblically and scripturally?

 

~

 

Feelings, nothing more than feelings http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/morris_albert/feelings.html

 

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. Mark 13:31

 

Trying to forget my feelings of love http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/morris_albert/feelings.html

 

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. Jeremiah 31:3

 

Teardrops rolling down on my face http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/morris_albert/feelings.html

 

And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. Luke 22:44

 

Trying to forget my feelings of love http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/morris_albert/feelings.html

 

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:18-20

 

Feelings

 

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Hebrews 10:22-24

 

Amen~!

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Dear Spock

     God Bless You this day & Praise the Lord! I am not really sure what you mean when you ask if I were convinced both "biblically & spiritually"?What could  possibly convince me to not trust Gods Word? I must not be understanding what your asking because it does not make sense to me......

      To be convinced Biblically,to me means that I believe what is Written is true & is the final Authority.....Spiritually,I am convinced by the Power of the Holy Spirit that gives me the Wisdom & Understanding of Gods Written Words

           But you see Spock,I do not need to be convinced of anything,if God says it,I believe it.......whether it makes sense or not,for me that is irrelevant............Just as the Lord asked Job,"where were you when I laid down the foundations for the earth..........."hmmmm,I cannot even consider questioning God's Authority.

                                                                                                                            With love,in Christ-Kwik

[Spock]

Blessings Dear Spock

     God Bless You this day & Praise the Lord! I am not really sure what you mean when you ask if I were convinced both "biblically & spiritually"?What could  possibly convince me to not trust Gods Word? I must not be understanding what your asking because it does not make sense to me......

      To be convinced Biblically,to me means that I believe what is Written is true & is the final Authority.....Spiritually,I am convinced by the Power of the Holy Spirit that gives me the Wisdom & Understanding of Gods Written Words

           But you see Spock,I do not need to be convinced of anything,if God says it,I believe it.......whether it makes sense or not,for me that is irrelevant............Just as the Lord asked Job,"where were you when I laid down the foundations for the earth..........."hmmmm,I cannot even consider questioning God's Authority.

                                                                                                                            With love,in Christ-Kwik

I had a feeling your answer would be something like this. Oh well, I tried.

What I tried to do was to get you to TRY to put yourself in someone's else's shoes-people who are equally convinced that the bible does NOT say God created the universe 6000 years ago, but rather a dateless past, based on their interpretation of Genesis 1:1. Obviously this is different from your interpretation.

In ther words, you couldn't understand why many were disagreeing with Shiloh BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE AS HE DOES. I was trying to get you out of that mode and pretend you didn't believe as Shiloh. Would you have still felt as you did.

I can see you were incapable of doing that because you believe so strongly your interpretation is right and thus the will of God, very much like we believe. Anyhow, never mind. Have a good day.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Blessings Dear Spock

     God Bless You this day & Praise the Lord! I am not really sure what you mean when you ask if I were convinced both "biblically & spiritually"?What could  possibly convince me to not trust Gods Word? I must not be understanding what your asking because it does not make sense to me......

      To be convinced Biblically,to me means that I believe what is Written is true & is the final Authority.....Spiritually,I am convinced by the Power of the Holy Spirit that gives me the Wisdom & Understanding of Gods Written Words

           But you see Spock,I do not need to be convinced of anything,if God says it,I believe it.......whether it makes sense or not,for me that is irrelevant............Just as the Lord asked Job,"where were you when I laid down the foundations for the earth..........."hmmmm,I cannot even consider questioning God's Authority.

                                                                                                                            With love,in Christ-Kwik

I had a feeling your answer would be something like this. Oh well, I tried.

What I tried to do was to get you to TRY to put yourself in someone's else's shoes-people who are equally convinced that the bible does NOT say God created the universe 6000 years ago, but rather a dateless past, based on their interpretation of Genesis 1:1. Obviously this is different from your interpretation.

In ther words, you couldn't understand why many were disagreeing with Shiloh BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE AS HE DOES. I was trying to get you out of that mode and pretend you didn't believe as Shiloh. Would you have still felt as you did.

I can see you were incapable of doing that because you believe so strongly your interpretation is right and thus the will of God, very much like we believe. Anyhow, never mind. Have a good day.

 

It's nice to know that some people actually believe and trust the Word of God and are not so easily led into unbiblical pre-adamite delusions.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Spock...

       God bless you brother,now i understand what you are asking......there is no need to get fresh,I am not incapable of doing anything & that is why I said I probably did ot understand your question

        I can put myself in anyone's shoes & I usually try very hard to understand why a person thinks like he does because I respect others opinions .....& I do not have to agree with them to understand what they are saying........it is not necessarily that "I BELIEVE AS SHILOH DOES"  but that I believe what God says.And yes,you are 100% accurate in that God dod not say the earth was created 6000 yrs ago & He never would have said that because at the time the Scriptures were inspired by Him & Written it would have been untrue(2000 yrs ago)LOL.......Anyway,Okay so maybe it was 6,724 years ago,the point for me is that we trace back(as best we could)the lineages of the people written about in the Bible & we go back to Adam & Eve,that were created on the 6th DAY OF CREATION  it was not a dateless time ...

           Yes Spock,I can understand exactly what you are saying & Scripture does not support that,I love you brother!

                                                                                                                                                            Yours in Christ-Kwik

[Guest]

I can see you were incapable of doing that because you believe so strongly your interpretation is right and thus the will of God, very much like we believe. Anyhow, never mind. Have a good day.

 

 

Brain

 

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:3

 

Washed

 

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

 

Or Heart Washed

 

Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son. Genesis 18:14

 

The Question Goes Straight To Who The LORD Jesus Is

 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3

 

~

 

And I'd Rather Have A Bible In Front Of Me

 

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:10-12

 

Than A Frontal

 

Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? Isaiah 29:16

 

Lobotomy

 

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

 

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.  Exodus 20:8-11

 

~

 

From The Dawn Of Creation, Every Seventh Day

 

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Genesis 2:1-3

 

Has Been A Celebration Of The First Six Days

 

~

 

So Beloved Hold Fast To What God Has Planted

 

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

 

And Be Prepared To Be Astonished

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. Revelation 21:1

 

Love, Your Brother Joe