The first sacrifice

[other one]

Not everything that is killed is a sacrifice.

[Remnantrob]

Not everything that is killed is a sacrifice.

so was something killed? 

[Izzel]

 

 

The events preceding the first manslaughter in the scripture also portrait apparently the first sacrificial gifts to God, by Cain and Abel.

 

What in the scripture before this actually tells man to do this? And more specifically, how to do this? The law has not been given, if it has, there is no mention about it.

 

Sure, the desire to worship and praise our Creator rises from within, but I find it interesting things took the course they did.

God offered the first sacrificed 

 

you are assuming that God actually killed animals for those clothes for Adam and Eve......    the Bible does not tell us that....

 

Revelation 13:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

Just as we are to be covered in Christ today 

The animal God killed  in the garden was a shadow of Jesus 

[Izzel]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The events preceding the first manslaughter in the scripture also portrait apparently the first sacrificial gifts to God, by Cain and Abel.

 

What in the scripture before this actually tells man to do this? And more specifically, how to do this? The law has not been given, if it has, there is no mention about it.

 

Sure, the desire to worship and praise our Creator rises from within, but I find it interesting things took the course they did.

God offered the first sacrificed 

 

you are assuming that God actually killed animals for those clothes for Adam and Eve......    the Bible does not tell us that....

 

Hey Other one.  I mentioned this to you before in another thread?  Well more like Adam sacrificed the first animal and God made the coats of skin.  My question to you is remember when God said in the day that they ate the fruit they would surely die...what was it that postponed the sentence? yes I understand the spiritual implication but when I read that verse it also seems to imply physical death.  The theory of the first sacrifice gives me a better understanding of why in that day they did not surely die.  Just a thought.  take care.

 

Might I just say it this way......       In the day that you eat of it.....   your  death will be assured....      it's really not saying that you will die today, but the moment that you eat of it your death is assured.  (whenever that might be).

 

We carry that same physical curse unless he returns before we die.   Considering all, and what it appears we are going to end up being....   and how Lucifer acted...   it's not difficult for me to understand why he's testing each of us for a possible future with him doing things and being responsible for things that we can't even fathom with these simple bodies and minds that we have.      When one looks at theoretical physics and sees all the possibilities when we attain access to these upper dimensions it becomes very easy to understand being totally overwhelmed with it all.

 

 

The whole history of science to me pretty much works out that for the things that we discover, it usually opens a half dozen questions that we didn't even know existed.    sort of goes along with Don Rumsfeld's "there are things that we don't know and there are things that we don't even know we don't know..."

 

 

Oh and it's also possible that considering God made all the animals, he could have just whipped up some skins without hurting some poor animal...    just another of those things we don't know...       difference in my life now than when I was 25 is that it's now OK to understand that I don't know.....       I have a whole head of stuff I studied for years that I would be much better off not knowing......   well more at ease anyway.

 

Hey Other one,

 

Did you watch the debate last night with Ken Ham and Bill Nye?  Ham and his creationist team seem to have come up with the same theory regarding the first sacrifice.  Just made me think of you last night, but I know it's just another man's interpretation of that scripture.  It was a interesting debate in case you missed it.

 

 i spent the first 18 or so years of my life in the Church of Christ....    an incident at our school introduced me to the teaching that if you were not baptized by a member of one of the Churches of Christ you had no hope of going to heaven.....  

 

That kind of rocked my spiritual world and like any self respecting teenager, dumped on God rather than question my church...   Long story short I'd give most anything to get the following 14 months back.

 

Basically I had to dump everything I had learned in Sunday School for those 18 years and start over so I could be sure what I understood as truth or doctrine was actually true.   So I learned the hard way not to trust other peoples reading skills.

 

That's why I'm so leery of assuming things like the animals for the skins were a sacrifice....     if God wanted us to understand it as a sacrifice, in my world he would have mentioned it...   

 

I didn't watch the debate for I've noticed it seems to bring out attitudes that I simply don't like being around....   I have my own ideas of the beginnings, and they include a whole vast set of things that are much too complicated to bring up and try and discuss on here........   especially this subject and here.

 

 

I hear you and can understand why you'd be weary to just take what I'm saying for fact.  But when you look  in chapter 3 of Genesis what other reasonable excuse could there be for  the skins?  The only reason I think it was Adam and not God who sacrificed the animal is because when you read the book of Leviticus it is the sinner that always kills the innocent animal.  Sure God made the garments which represented his righteousness verses the garments that they made of fig leaves(their own righteousness) but the sacrifice still was the job of the sinner.  Since the blood represents the life of the person (Lev. 17:11) they would have to place their life back into the hands of the life giver, let him clean them up and then place his righteous life in them.  I'm not one to use commentators to prove a point but a lof of them do agree with Gen. 3:21 being the first sacrifice.

 

What was Abraham sacrificing Issac was a foreshadow of ?

[Izzel]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The events preceding the first manslaughter in the scripture also portrait apparently the first sacrificial gifts to God, by Cain and Abel.

 

What in the scripture before this actually tells man to do this? And more specifically, how to do this? The law has not been given, if it has, there is no mention about it.

 

Sure, the desire to worship and praise our Creator rises from within, but I find it interesting things took the course they did.

God offered the first sacrificed 

 

you are assuming that God actually killed animals for those clothes for Adam and Eve......    the Bible does not tell us that....

 

Hey Other one.  I mentioned this to you before in another thread?  Well more like Adam sacrificed the first animal and God made the coats of skin.  My question to you is remember when God said in the day that they ate the fruit they would surely die...what was it that postponed the sentence? yes I understand the spiritual implication but when I read that verse it also seems to imply physical death.  The theory of the first sacrifice gives me a better understanding of why in that day they did not surely die.  Just a thought.  take care.

 

Might I just say it this way......       In the day that you eat of it.....   your  death will be assured....      it's really not saying that you will die today, but the moment that you eat of it your death is assured.  (whenever that might be).

 

We carry that same physical curse unless he returns before we die.   Considering all, and what it appears we are going to end up being....   and how Lucifer acted...   it's not difficult for me to understand why he's testing each of us for a possible future with him doing things and being responsible for things that we can't even fathom with these simple bodies and minds that we have.      When one looks at theoretical physics and sees all the possibilities when we attain access to these upper dimensions it becomes very easy to understand being totally overwhelmed with it all.

 

 

The whole history of science to me pretty much works out that for the things that we discover, it usually opens a half dozen questions that we didn't even know existed.    sort of goes along with Don Rumsfeld's "there are things that we don't know and there are things that we don't even know we don't know..."

 

 

Oh and it's also possible that considering God made all the animals, he could have just whipped up some skins without hurting some poor animal...    just another of those things we don't know...       difference in my life now than when I was 25 is that it's now OK to understand that I don't know.....       I have a whole head of stuff I studied for years that I would be much better off not knowing......   well more at ease anyway.

 

Hey Other one,

 

Did you watch the debate last night with Ken Ham and Bill Nye?  Ham and his creationist team seem to have come up with the same theory regarding the first sacrifice.  Just made me think of you last night, but I know it's just another man's interpretation of that scripture.  It was a interesting debate in case you missed it.

 

 i spent the first 18 or so years of my life in the Church of Christ....    an incident at our school introduced me to the teaching that if you were not baptized by a member of one of the Churches of Christ you had no hope of going to heaven.....  

 

That kind of rocked my spiritual world and like any self respecting teenager, dumped on God rather than question my church...   Long story short I'd give most anything to get the following 14 months back.

 

Basically I had to dump everything I had learned in Sunday School for those 18 years and start over so I could be sure what I understood as truth or doctrine was actually true.   So I learned the hard way not to trust other peoples reading skills.

 

That's why I'm so leery of assuming things like the animals for the skins were a sacrifice....     if God wanted us to understand it as a sacrifice, in my world he would have mentioned it...   

 

I didn't watch the debate for I've noticed it seems to bring out attitudes that I simply don't like being around....   I have my own ideas of the beginnings, and they include a whole vast set of things that are much too complicated to bring up and try and discuss on here........   especially this subject and here.

 

Something to think about 

 

 Did God created male and femal in the plant kingdom ?

 

How can you prove that from the bible ?

[Izzel]

Genesis 3:21  

King James Version (KJV)

21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

  Revelation 13:8

King James Version (KJV)

 

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

Death took place  first   when God made coats of skins to clothe Adam and Eve. God killed animal, Most likely a  lamb, to provide clothing to cover Adam and Eve's exposed nakedness.  Thus this lamb represented God grace and mercy and Jesus Christ 

God unwillingly and willingly  shed the very first drop of blood ever shed for the sake of mankind to make the atonement . Thu it represented Jesus shed blood 

[Willa]

We cannot make doctrine of that which is not stated in scripture. We know that Adam and eve sinned. They became aware that they were naked and hid from God. God provided animal skins for them for tunics. They were kicked out of the garden and had to survive in harsher conditions. We get into trouble when we assume what we do not know.

Able's blood sacrefice of a sheep was accepted.

Cain''s grain sacrifice was not.

A pattern starts to emerge.

[other one]

 

Not everything that is killed is a sacrifice.

so was something killed? 

 

I have no idea.....   Bible doesn't say....

[other one]

 

 

 

The events preceding the first manslaughter in the scripture also portrait apparently the first sacrificial gifts to God, by Cain and Abel.

 

What in the scripture before this actually tells man to do this? And more specifically, how to do this? The law has not been given, if it has, there is no mention about it.

 

Sure, the desire to worship and praise our Creator rises from within, but I find it interesting things took the course they did.

God offered the first sacrificed 

 

you are assuming that God actually killed animals for those clothes for Adam and Eve......    the Bible does not tell us that....

 

Revelation 13:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

Just as we are to be covered in Christ today 

The animal God killed  in the garden was a shadow of Jesus 

 

First of all, you don't know that God or anyone killed an animal to get the skins.....    The entity that said let there be light certainly could whip up a couple of skins without harming his creation.

 

That being a shadow is way more of a stretch than I am willing to make.....   especially since we don't really know if something died..

 

Makes a cute story though......   but it's that kind of thinking that my childhood pastor says that most all of you are going to hell.

[Remnantrob]

First of all, you don't know that God or anyone killed an animal to get the skins.....    The entity that said let there be light certainly could whip up a couple of skins without harming his creation.

 

That being a shadow is way more of a stretch than I am willing to make.....   especially since we don't really know if something died..

 

Makes a cute story though......   but it's that kind of thinking that my childhood pastor says that most all of you are going to hell.

 

 

 

We speculate based on the evidence available for other things in the bible and accept it as truth so why can't it be done here?  For example, from history we know that the crucifixion was a slow death. It usually lasted

several days. Death followed from exhaustion,inability to respire property as a result of being in an upright position or attacks by wild animals. Why did Jesus, who was a fit and healthy man used to walking the countryside for long distances, die so

quickly in only a matter of a few hours?  Many of us say it was from a broken heart and that would be speculation right?  But the information available leads us to that conclusion does it not?