Irreducible Complexity

[Enoch2021]

Dr. Michael Behe: Irreducible Complexity (Blood Coagulation Cascade)

 

This is a very complicated mechanism and I'm just highlighting a few steps: Basically....

Fibrinogen (Inactive in Blood),  Prothrombin (Inactive in Blood).  Also bear in mind, Plasminogen breaks down the clots after the cascade is complete and healing has taken place.

When you cut yourself, Prothrombin is converted to Thrombin which then converts Fibrinogen to Fibrin which then forms networks of polymerized Fibrins that clots the blood and stops the bleeding.   These factors have to be inactive in the blood until insult or else you'd get runaway clotting and vapor lock.
Professor Russell Doolittle (Professor of Biochemistry @ UC San Diego, Member of the National Academy of Sciences) has worked on Blood Clotting for 50 years and is the world's foremost expert, published "A Delicate Balance" in Boston Review which is Published by MIT: "Recently the gene for PLAMINOGEN(sic) was knocked out of mice.....then the same workers knocked out the gene for Fibrinogen in another line of mice.  And what do you think happened when these two lines were crossed?  For all practical purposes, the Mice lacking both genes were normal! Contrary to claims about irreducible complexity, the entire ensemble of proteins are not needed.  Music and harmony can arise from a smaller orchestra."

Dr Doolittle of course is wrong and was referring to a paper that he apparently just skimmed through, as in...just looked @ the Title, and not the whole Title but just "Loss of Fibrinogen Rescues Mice": This paper is..... "Loss of Fibrinogen Rescues Mice from the Pleiotropic Effects of Plasminogen Deficiency" Thomas Brugge et al (1996), Cell Volume 87, 709-715.

 

Authors Abstract...."Mice deficient in plasminogen and fibrinogen are phenotypically indistinguishable from fibrinogen-deficient mice".  That is to say...the new line of mice that are missing both (plasminogen and fibrinogen) have all the problems of the Fibrinogen Missing line except Thrombosis (Plasminogen breaks the clots down after healing): Blood doesn't clot (duh), hemorrhage (duh), female mice die during pregnancy (duh)!!  See other Knockout Gene studies that ALL resulted in offspring death: (Bugge et al 1995, Suh et al 1995, Suh et al 1998, Bugge et al 1996). 

Each time one factor was KNOCKED OUT in each line....The respective OFFSPRING MICE DIED!!  Which is exactly the POINT of Irreducible Complexity that Dr. Behe was illustrating!  Moreover (and this is quite troubling), Professor Doolittle obviously didn't know as evidenced by reviewing (extremely superficially) another study while being the world's foremost expert on the topic .....what does that tell you?

We're not done: watch how the "a priori adherence" to fairytales "cascades" and a typical CLUMSY tactic used by evolutionists propagates.... Note in Professor Doolittle's response to Dr. Behe in the previous MIT article, PLAMINOGEN(sic) is misspelled.  It was just a typo from Professor Doolittle... not a big deal he surely knows how to spell the word correctly. 

Michael Ruse (Philosopher of Biology and world renowned Darwinian supporter) decides to chime in on this issue a year later...."For example, Behe is a real scientist, but this case for the impossibility of a small-step natural origin of biological complexity has been trampled upon contemptuously by the scientists working in the field.  They think his grasp of the pertinent science is weak and his knowledge of the literature curiously (although conveniently) outdated.  For example, far from the evolution of clotting being a mystery, the past three decades of work by Russell Doolittle and others has thrown significant light on the ways clotting came into being.......One step in the cascade involves fibrinogen, required for clotting, and another PLAMINOGEN {sic}, required for clearing clots away."
Ruse, M, "Answering the creationists: Where they go wrong and what they're afraid of," Free Inquiry, March 22, 1998, p. 28.
And then he goes on to quote Dr. Doolittle's exact passage from the MIT article!!

 

HE #%^%$#  COPY AND PASTED the fine Professor Doolittle's legitimate mistake (spelling error, PLAMINOGEN) along with the erroneous results without DUE DILIGENCE as USUAL and added his color commentary of "TRAMPLED CONTEMPTUOUSLY" into his mindless spiel. AND his opinion of what other "un-named" scientists think of Behe: "They think his grasp of the pertinent science...."  Did Ruse go and ask these other 'un-named' scientists what they think? 

Who else was ready to put their foot in the snare?..... Neil Greenspan Professor of Pathology, Case Western University, Ohio:  "The design advocates also ignore the accumulating examples of the reducibility of biological systems.  As RUSSELL DOOLITTLE has noted in commenting on the writings of one ID advocate {Behe}, mice genetically altered so that they lack either thrombin or fibrinogen have the expected abnormal hemostatic phenotypes. However, when the separate knockout mice are bred, the double knockouts apparently have normal hemostasis reducible complexity after all, at least in the laboratory."
Greenspan, Neil S. "Not-so-intelligent design," The Scientist, March 4, 2002, p.12.

Absolutely pitiful...he not only repeats the same exact mistake Professor Doolittle made concerning the mortality of bred knockouts (THE MICE DIED!!).... Thrombin wasn't knocked out in the study, it was FIBRINOGEN and PLASMINOGEN!!!!!!!!

This is Pathetic and Reprehensible Intellectual Laziness @ best and Academic FRAUD @ worst!! They deferred to Professor Doolittle without the slightest scrutiny or Due Diligence then propagated the company line.

 

Moreover, Why didn't the Editors of "The Scientist" catch this before publishing??

There's your "SCIENCE"!!!!  Take a Big Whiff !!!!

 

** UNOFFICIALLY ** -- Dr. Behe confronted Dr. Doolittle and pointed out his mistake concerning mortality; Dr Doolittle replied back in an email........"Ooops"!!!  But never retracted his statements.

[Fez]

My head hurts......

[ncn]

My head hurts......

 

I need some aspirin care to share 

 

[Enoch2021]

 

My head hurts......

 

I need some aspirin care to share 

 

 

 

Ironically, aspirin interferes with the Coagulation Cascade

[ncn]

 

 

My head hurts......

 

I need some aspirin care to share 

 

 

 

Ironically, aspirin interferes with the Coagulation Cascade

 

 

Yes I can be ironic ,forgive me I am Brit 

 

Just don't ask me to say, "Please sir, can I have some more" 

[Guest]

My head hurts......

 

I need some aspirin care to share 

 

 

Ironically, aspirin interferes with the Coagulation Cascade

 

 

And Coffee Restores It Again... And Again....... And Again

 

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. Psalms 139:14

[other one]

Dr. Michael Behe: Irreducible Complexity (Blood Coagulation Cascade)

 

This is a very complicated mechanism and I'm just highlighting a few steps: Basically....

Fibrinogen (Inactive in Blood),  Prothrombin (Inactive in Blood).  Also bear in mind, Plasminogen breaks down the clots after the cascade is complete and healing has taken place.

When you cut yourself, Prothrombin is converted to Thrombin which then converts Fibrinogen to Fibrin which then forms networks of polymerized Fibrins that clots the blood and stops the bleeding.   These factors have to be inactive in the blood until insult or else you'd get runaway clotting and vapor lock.

Professor Russell Doolittle (Professor of Biochemistry @ UC San Diego, Member of the National Academy of Sciences) has worked on Blood Clotting for 50 years and is the world's foremost expert, published "A Delicate Balance" in Boston Review which is Published by MIT: "Recently the gene for PLAMINOGEN(sic) was knocked out of mice.....then the same workers knocked out the gene for Fibrinogen in another line of mice.  And what do you think happened when these two lines were crossed?  For all practical purposes, the Mice lacking both genes were normal! Contrary to claims about irreducible complexity, the entire ensemble of proteins are not needed.  Music and harmony can arise from a smaller orchestra."

Dr Doolittle of course is wrong and was referring to a paper that he apparently just skimmed through, as in...just looked @ the Title, and not the whole Title but just "Loss of Fibrinogen Rescues Mice": This paper is..... "Loss of Fibrinogen Rescues Mice from the Pleiotropic Effects of Plasminogen Deficiency" Thomas Brugge et al (1996), Cell Volume 87, 709-715.

 

Authors Abstract...."Mice deficient in plasminogen and fibrinogen are phenotypically indistinguishable from fibrinogen-deficient mice".  That is to say...the new line of mice that are missing both (plasminogen and fibrinogen) have all the problems of the Fibrinogen Missing line except Thrombosis (Plasminogen breaks the clots down after healing): Blood doesn't clot (duh), hemorrhage (duh), female mice die during pregnancy (duh)!!  See other Knockout Gene studies that ALL resulted in offspring death: (Bugge et al 1995, Suh et al 1995, Suh et al 1998, Bugge et al 1996). 

Each time one factor was KNOCKED OUT in each line....The respective OFFSPRING MICE DIED!!  Which is exactly the POINT of Irreducible Complexity that Dr. Behe was illustrating!  Moreover (and this is quite troubling), Professor Doolittle obviously didn't know as evidenced by reviewing (extremely superficially) another study while being the world's foremost expert on the topic .....what does that tell you?

We're not done: watch how the "a priori adherence" to fairytales "cascades" and a typical CLUMSY tactic used by evolutionists propagates.... Note in Professor Doolittle's response to Dr. Behe in the previous MIT article, PLAMINOGEN(sic) is misspelled.  It was just a typo from Professor Doolittle... not a big deal he surely knows how to spell the word correctly. 

Michael Ruse (Philosopher of Biology and world renowned Darwinian supporter) decides to chime in on this issue a year later...."For example, Behe is a real scientist, but this case for the impossibility of a small-step natural origin of biological complexity has been trampled upon contemptuously by the scientists working in the field.  They think his grasp of the pertinent science is weak and his knowledge of the literature curiously (although conveniently) outdated.  For example, far from the evolution of clotting being a mystery, the past three decades of work by Russell Doolittle and others has thrown significant light on the ways clotting came into being.......One step in the cascade involves fibrinogen, required for clotting, and another PLAMINOGEN {sic}, required for clearing clots away."

Ruse, M, "Answering the creationists: Where they go wrong and what they're afraid of," Free Inquiry, March 22, 1998, p. 28.

And then he goes on to quote Dr. Doolittle's exact passage from the MIT article!!

 

HE #%^%$#  COPY AND PASTED the fine Professor Doolittle's legitimate mistake (spelling error, PLAMINOGEN) along with the erroneous results without DUE DILIGENCE as USUAL and added his color commentary of "TRAMPLED CONTEMPTUOUSLY" into his mindless spiel. AND his opinion of what other "un-named" scientists think of Behe: "They think his grasp of the pertinent science...."  Did Ruse go and ask these other 'un-named' scientists what they think? 

Who else was ready to put their foot in the snare?..... Neil Greenspan Professor of Pathology, Case Western University, Ohio:  "The design advocates also ignore the accumulating examples of the reducibility of biological systems.  As RUSSELL DOOLITTLE has noted in commenting on the writings of one ID advocate {Behe}, mice genetically altered so that they lack either thrombin or fibrinogen have the expected abnormal hemostatic phenotypes. However, when the separate knockout mice are bred, the double knockouts apparently have normal hemostasis reducible complexity after all, at least in the laboratory."

Greenspan, Neil S. "Not-so-intelligent design," The Scientist, March 4, 2002, p.12.

Absolutely pitiful...he not only repeats the same exact mistake Professor Doolittle made concerning the mortality of bred knockouts (THE MICE DIED!!).... Thrombin wasn't knocked out in the study, it was FIBRINOGEN and PLASMINOGEN!!!!!!!!

This is Pathetic and Reprehensible Intellectual Laziness @ best and Academic FRAUD @ worst!! They deferred to Professor Doolittle without the slightest scrutiny or Due Diligence then propagated the company line.

 

Moreover, Why didn't the Editors of "The Scientist" catch this before publishing??

There's your "SCIENCE"!!!!  Take a Big Whiff !!!!

 

** UNOFFICIALLY ** -- Dr. Behe confronted Dr. Doolittle and pointed out his mistake concerning mortality; Dr Doolittle replied back in an email........"Ooops"!!!  But never retracted his statements.

 

 

[Spock]

Focus Spock focus! (While banging head on table)

[other one]

Seriously Enoch.....  I'm just not in the mood to think that hard today..

[Guest]

Focus Spock focus! (While banging head on table)

 

 

~

 

True

 

And he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here. See the place where they laid him. Mark 16:6 (ESV)

 

Focus

 

For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:11 (NASB)

 

On Afterburners

 

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6