WN: Arizona bill letting businesses deny service for religious reason

[nebula]

Baking a cake no more supports the lifestyle than fixing a pipe in a house or selling a gay couple a car.

 

Hey Eve, if you eat the fruit of that tree you won't die.....

 

 

Jesus died to put sin to death, not so that we can cater to it to try to make Jesus look appealing.

[SandyU]

I hear christians say "hate the sin, and love the sinner". Baking a cake is a good time to show love to the sinner? But everyone has to decide were to draw the line. The government shouldn't be part of that decision. But in the world they see gays as a race, not just a lifestyle. This could be the beginning of laws to force christians to accept gays. It reminds me of Obama making hospitals and christian insurances companies to sell birth control insurance.

[other one]

I hear christians say "hate the sin, and love the sinner". Baking a cake is a good time to show love to the sinner? But everyone has to decide were to draw the line. The government shouldn't be part of that decision. But in the world they see gays as a race, not just a lifestyle. This could be the beginning of laws to force christians to accept gays. It reminds me of Obama making hospitals and christian insurances companies to sell birth control insurance.

 

Problem is that if we truly do love the sinner, how in the world can we just stand by and watch them go to hell.

[SandyU]

Other one: Problem is that id we truly love the sinner, how in the world can we just stand by and watch them go to hell.

Me:

Good question we must show the love of Jesus to them. Yet make it known that we are christian, and get to a point were we can invite them to become a christian. Not an easy thing in the world today. The world is blinded into believing there is something wrong with the christian, but that homosexuals are normal. I think it's possible but it would take super natural help from the Holy Spirit. I can't say I have an answer to this problem.

[nebula]

In the Epistles, did any of the apostles mention catering to people's sin as a means of witnessing to them?

 

Anyway, I was thinking about the conflict the early Christians had about meat sacrificed to idols. Some believed it didn't matter; others believed it did. Paul's answer was to appeal to what your behavior would do to other believers - would it make your brother stumble to eat the meat sacrificed to idols? What did Paul recommend as far as being a witness to non-believers?

 

But is interesting that in Revelation, Jesus judged a church for the "prophetess" they listened to who taught them to eat the meat sacrificed to idols.

 

So, what can we learn from this?

[other one]

In the Epistles, did any of the apostles mention catering to people's sin as a means of witnessing to them?

 

Anyway, I was thinking about the conflict the early Christians had about meat sacrificed to idols. Some believed it didn't matter; others believed it did. Paul's answer was to appeal to what your behavior would do to other believers - would it make your brother stumble to eat the meat sacrificed to idols? What did Paul recommend as far as being a witness to non-believers?

 

But is interesting that in Revelation, Jesus judged a church for the "prophetess" they listened to who taught them to eat the meat sacrificed to idols.

 

So, what can we learn from this?

1 Cor 10:20-22

20 No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice , they sacrifice to demons, and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? We are not stronger than He, are we?

NASB

 

 

 

that there is more to it than just eating.....

[LookingForAnswers]

 

Baking a cake no more supports the lifestyle than fixing a pipe in a house or selling a gay couple a car.

 

Hey Eve, if you eat the fruit of that tree you won't die.....

 

 

Jesus died to put sin to death, not so that we can cater to it to try to make Jesus look appealing.

 

 

exactly, why then are so many Christians ok with supporting a sinful lifestyle by allowing Christian plumbers work on the pipes at the homes of these people?  Or allowing a taxi driver to let them into their taxi?   All of these things are supporting their lifestyle.  None should be allowed. 

[SandyU]

Therefore, since through Gods mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. Rather we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every mans conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbeliever, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your servants for Jesus sake. For God who said, "let the light shine out of the darkness" made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us, We are heard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; .....2 Corinthians 4:1-9

[SandyU]

A good example of Gods people working with others in the old testament would be the book of Daniel. He is an example of how a man of God lived and worked among the ungodly. I really can't think of a reason you couldn't bake cookies, plum a sink or sell a car to a non-christian sinner. We are to live in the world without becoming of the world. We are to become Christ to the world. I think 2 corinthians 4 said it; we are to be plain and clear about what we believe. We are to be the conscience to the world. We are to let our lives show how God (not us) is the power and light within us.

[Guest Butero]

Thank you for your answers. Why should such a opt out policy be limited to Christians. What if an atheist disagrees with gay marriage and does not want to bake them a cake

For the record, I am opposed to the government telling any business owner they must serve anyone.  If there was a homosexual owned bakery that wouldn't bake a cake for a heterosexual couple, I would be fine with that.  I am opposed to any anti-discrimination laws.  If a person starts their own business, they should be free to run it as they see fit. 

 

I would personally support this bill, as a step in allowing business owners to regain the freedom that was taken away from them from an oppressive government.  I would close up shop before I would make a cake for a homosexual couple's wedding.  There is no way I would do it.