ny pastor raffles off rifle during church

[Guest P_W]

The Holy Spirit changes hearts.  He is the only one who can.  We do not change people, we carry the gospel of Jesus Christ and God does the changing.

 

Christians are called to many different areas.  We are all given different "gifts" and abilities.  Each ability is the design of God and we can choose to use our abilities for Him, or for whatever we desire.

 

When I was in college there were those who thought if a Christian student chose a vocation in accounting, for example, then they were not fully serving God.  To me, this seems to say that those who thought this way also thought that if every Christian was not a minister, or missionary, then they were not fully serving God, and this is a false idea.

 

We are to reach people for the Lord in whatever way God leads.  One who works in an office will lead other people to Christ by the example he or she sets while on the job, and this goes for those who work in factories, teach school, or run for a certain political office.

 

I do understand there are those who would have us be silent, and tell us what vocation, or role we are allowed to take on, but they are not the one who is in charge, or qualified to make these decisions.  In my previous post, I explained how God raised up kings and had a hand in government and social issues.  God leads us, not the opinions of man.  That there are certain opinions on how we, as Christians, should act, or live, is no concern to me.  God leads His people and He places them where He wants them.  

 

That position might be President of The United States, or it might be a stay at home mother or father.  Either way, the part is honorable and a part of God's design.  Each position is as important as the next, maybe not to man, but it is to God.  I base this fact on the Bible.  God gave Sarah a child in her old age and He told Sarah and Abraham that many nations would arise from their offspring.  Their roles played a very integral part of creating a Nation that would give us Jesus Christ.

 

Always in His care, delighted to be in His service, whatever role that would be, wherever He sends me.

 

Shalom, PrairWarur

 

 

1 Corinthians 12:27-31

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.

28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?

30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?

31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts.

And I show you a still more excellent way.

[The_Patriot21]

 

Changing laws can and does change people. Furthermore it gets the churches name out there. You don't reach souls by sitting quietly and minding your own business you reach souls by getting out there. By feeding the needy. By preaching to the lost. And yes, by changing laws for the benefit of Christ.

 

Changing laws change actions, not hearts.  God changes hearts.  Not too many examples of anyone in the New Testament out there trying to change laws, in fact there are none.

 

 

yet, there are countless examples of followers of Christ in government roles in the Old Testament, countless. Did you ever consider those? Jesus did away with the old covenant-not the old testament. If your not called to be politically active, then thats fine, but don't diss on those that are-because Jesus is needed in politics to. I agree, only the holy spirit can change hearts-changing laws doesn't change the heart, but changing laws, and influencing them, can help change hearts-for example, christians in politics can make it easier for churches to go out there and preach, they can influence what is taught in our public schools, they can even help change the hearts of other politicians.

 

and dont get me started on westboro.

[LookingForAnswers]

 

 

Changing laws can and does change people. Furthermore it gets the churches name out there. You don't reach souls by sitting quietly and minding your own business you reach souls by getting out there. By feeding the needy. By preaching to the lost. And yes, by changing laws for the benefit of Christ.

 

Changing laws change actions, not hearts.  God changes hearts.  Not too many examples of anyone in the New Testament out there trying to change laws, in fact there are none.

 

 

yet, there are countless examples of followers of Christ in government roles in the Old Testament, countless. Did you ever consider those? Jesus did away with the old covenant-not the old testament. If your not called to be politically active, then thats fine, but don't diss on those that are-because Jesus is needed in politics to. I agree, only the holy spirit can change hearts-changing laws doesn't change the heart, but changing laws, and influencing them, can help change hearts-for example, christians in politics can make it easier for churches to go out there and preach, they can influence what is taught in our public schools, they can even help change the hearts of other politicians.

 

and dont get me started on westboro.

 

 

 I did not say that Christians should not be politically active, I said that churches should not.  There is a time and a place for everything, church is not the place for political activity.  

[Guest P_W]

What if a church stands against abortion and joins something like Life Chain?  Is that what you consider "political activity"?

[nebula]

But even so, when a person gives a tithe or an offering, it is given to the Lord and the work of His ministry. Are you fine with a portion of the money you gave to the church to give to the food bank to be given instead to the government?

If my church were to leave the realm of religion and enter the secular realm i would be fine with it.

Ah, so you are a believer in separating the "sacred" from the "secular"?

That isn't Biblical.

[nebula]

I did not say that Christians should not be politically active, I said that churches should not.  There is a time and a place for everything, church is not the place for political activity.

What is "the church" but the congregation? And what is the "congregation" but the people?

[LookingForAnswers]

 

 

But even so, when a person gives a tithe or an offering, it is given to the Lord and the work of His ministry. Are you fine with a portion of the money you gave to the church to give to the food bank to be given instead to the government?

If my church were to leave the realm of religion and enter the secular realm i would be fine with it.

 

Ah, so you are a believer in separating the "sacred" from the "secular"?

That isn't Biblical.

 

 

It is not my distinction, it is the worlds. 

[LookingForAnswers]

 

I did not say that Christians should not be politically active, I said that churches should not.  There is a time and a place for everything, church is not the place for political activity.

What is "the church" but the congregation? And what is the "congregation" but the people?

 

 

In this instance it is the gathering of a group of people who have come together to worship the Lord and be with each other and hopefully show the love of Christ to those who do not know it.  It is a time and a place set aside for a specific activity.  I am a CBIP by trade but when I gather with other Christians in a church service I am not there to do ply trade or to watch football or read SiFi books, we are there to worship the Lord.  There is a time and a place for everything.  Why would we want to take a time set aside for God and give it over to political talk? 

[ayin jade]

I'm of two minds on this.  First, raffling anything off in a church seems a bit strange to me.  If the church needs money to fund its various ministries, then the leadership should simply ask the congregation to give more.  That's what we do.  We don't have car washes, bake sales, etc., etc., etc.  When we need money beyond our budget, we approach the people and they give.  That's pretty simple. 

 

But I do find it equally strange that anybody would get all uptight about the church - Christians in general - having anything to do with a *gasp* gun!  People, guns are legal!   Guns are what they are; they are objects.  They are not inhabited by evil spirits and they don't do any harm to anybody.  They go up in value, and if I may say, they make an awesome fashion accessory here in the Appalachia's.  Honestly the liberal Chistians that flit around this website are, well, humorous.  However, their attitude does point to a more serious problem; the problem of first principles.  The debate shouldn't be about guns and BIbles co-mingling, it should be about first principles in a free society.  But that's a topic for another day.

 

Im not uptight about the gun. Im uptight about doing this inside the church on sunday. Worship service should be about the Lord, not about stuff. If he wanted to raffle off a gun, that should have been during some other time. 

[ayin jade]

 

 

how about the church make a spiritual statement instead.  Seems to be more in line with what Jesus would expect.  Jesus didn't commission the church to make political statements, He did so to win over the lost.   You cannot serve two masters, either a church is political or it is spiritual.

There you go again with the misconception that a church can't be involved in politics and spread Christ's love. When in reality a church should be willing to do both there is no reason why you can't spread Gods love through politics-in fact churches being politically active can do a great many things, in fact if more churches were politically active our government wouldnt be nearly as corrupt, perhaps we even have outlawed abortion and we wouldn't be teaching kids that their a bunch of animals that evolved by chance from a random explosion x amount of years ago.

 

 

Any time spent being politically active is time spent not trying to save souls.  Being politically active might change laws but it does not change people.  If the church worried more about saving souls and less about changing laws the latter would take care of itself.

 

 

The time you spend reading a book, watching tv, posting on this forum is time wasted not spreading the gospel. To paraphrase you, you should worry more about saving souls and less about convincing folks that you are right on this forum,