PRE-TRIBBERS Please Explain

[His_disciple3]

ok once again I will from scripture show the Pre-Trib rapture. but really with all honesty know that it may not change anyone's mind.

Dan 12:1-2
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
KJV

                                                                          

Note here that two kinds of people are raised the saved (to everlasting life) the lost (to shame and everlasting contempt).
But at this separate event in scripture only those that are asleep in Christ are raised!!!! nothing about the lost being raised here.

1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
KJV

now we can find the order of end times in the end of scripture, but before I show this let me say this, the Church will not be with Jesus when he comes back for the battle of the end time. for how many kings or warriors, ever take their wife(Church/Bride) to battle with them? now some will try and say that revelation is not wrote in chronological order, but when John says and this happens and then this happens that my friend is in chronologica order!!

Rev 19:6-8
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
KJV

the marriage( the bride is in her white linen) is come but the next scriptures will show this is before the first resurrection, how is the bride there before the first resurrection? duh! by the Pre-Trib rapture/taken up. Now these scripture are still not the time that Daniel spoke of, but is yet the end of the tribulation But before the thousand year reign:

Rev 20:1-6
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV

Note here those that were beheaded and had refused to take the mark of the beast, this is the great tribulation saints the ones that endured. very much crushing the doctrine that none will be saved during the great tribulation( Rev 7:14
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
KJV)

then after the thousand year reign when have the second/last resurrection:

Rev 20:7-15
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

Now I need to pull one more nail out what man has put in the coffin as They have tried to kill truth from scripture Concerning the Pre-Trib rapture. some will ask if the pre-trib rapture is true bible doctrine, why was it not taught til so long into bible history? very good Question and one that one be adressed with another question. If we are indeed saved by grace through faith and not of works why was it not preached until much later even after the pre-trib rapture was taught. before that we needed the seven sacraments(works) in order to be saved.






 

[Enoch2021]

ok once again I will from scripture show the Pre-Trib rapture. but really with all honesty know that it may not change anyone's mind.

Dan 12:1-2

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

KJV

                                                                          

Note here that two kinds of people are raised the saved (to everlasting life) the lost (to shame and everlasting contempt).

But at this separate event in scripture only those that are asleep in Christ are raised!!!! nothing about the lost being raised here.

1 Thess 4:13-18

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

KJV

now we can find the order of end times in the end of scripture, but before I show this let me say this, the Church will not be with Jesus when he comes back for the battle of the end time. for how many kings or warriors, ever take their wife(Church/Bride) to battle with them? now some will try and say that revelation is not wrote in chronological order, but when John says and this happens and then this happens that my friend is in chronologica order!!

Rev 19:6-8

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

KJV

the marriage( the bride is in her white linen) is come but the next scriptures will show this is before the first resurrection, how is the bride there before the first resurrection? duh! by the Pre-Trib rapture/taken up. Now these scripture are still not the time that Daniel spoke of, but is yet the end of the tribulation But before the thousand year reign:

Rev 20:1-6

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

KJV

Note here those that were beheaded and had refused to take the mark of the beast, this is the great tribulation saints the ones that endured. very much crushing the doctrine that none will be saved during the great tribulation( Rev 7:14

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

KJV)

then after the thousand year reign when have the second/last resurrection:

Rev 20:7-15

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

KJV

Now I need to pull one more nail out what man has put in the coffin as They have tried to kill truth from scripture Concerning the Pre-Trib rapture. some will ask if the pre-trib rapture is true bible doctrine, why was it not taught til so long into bible history? very good Question and one that one be adressed with another question. If we are indeed saved by grace through faith and not of works why was it not preached until much later even after the pre-trib rapture was taught. before that we needed the seven sacraments(works) in order to be saved.

 

 

 

 

=========================================================================

 

 

This is Outstanding Work!!! 

 

One minor issue....

 

the Church will not be with Jesus when he comes back for the battle of the end time. for how many kings or warriors, ever take their wife(Church/Bride) to battle with them?

 

Scripture says She will follow HIM.....

 

(Revelation 19:7-16) "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.  {8} And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.  {9} And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.  {10} And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.  {11} And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.  {12} His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.  {13} And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  {14} And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  {15} And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

 

 

 

She won't need to Fight, the LORD takes care of that Himself.....

 

 

(Isaiah 63:1-4) "Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.  {2} Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?  {3} I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.  {4} For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come."

[rollinTHUNDER]

ok once again I will from scripture show the Pre-Trib rapture. but really with all honesty know that it may not change anyone's mind.

Dan 12:1-2

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

KJV

                                                                          

Note here that two kinds of people are raised the saved (to everlasting life) the lost (to shame and everlasting contempt).

But at this separate event in scripture only those that are asleep in Christ are raised!!!! nothing about the lost being raised here.

1 Thess 4:13-18

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

KJV

now we can find the order of end times in the end of scripture, but before I show this let me say this, the Church will not be with Jesus when he comes back for the battle of the end time. for how many kings or warriors, ever take their wife(Church/Bride) to battle with them? now some will try and say that revelation is not wrote in chronological order, but when John says and this happens and then this happens that my friend is in chronologica order!!

Rev 19:6-8

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

KJV

the marriage( the bride is in her white linen) is come but the next scriptures will show this is before the first resurrection, how is the bride there before the first resurrection? duh! by the Pre-Trib rapture/taken up. Now these scripture are still not the time that Daniel spoke of, but is yet the end of the tribulation But before the thousand year reign:

Rev 20:1-6

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

KJV

Note here those that were beheaded and had refused to take the mark of the beast, this is the great tribulation saints the ones that endured. very much crushing the doctrine that none will be saved during the great tribulation( Rev 7:14

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

KJV)

then after the thousand year reign when have the second/last resurrection:

Rev 20:7-15

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

KJV

Now I need to pull one more nail out what man has put in the coffin as They have tried to kill truth from scripture Concerning the Pre-Trib rapture. some will ask if the pre-trib rapture is true bible doctrine, why was it not taught til so long into bible history? very good Question and one that one be adressed with another question. If we are indeed saved by grace through faith and not of works why was it not preached until much later even after the pre-trib rapture was taught. before that we needed the seven sacraments(works) in order to be saved.

Hi Hd3,

You may want to re-think your position, or at least the classification of it. The resurrection in Dan. 12:2 is not pre-trib. It is both, after the abomination of desolation (Dan. 11:36, Matt. 24:15), after the time of trouble (Dan. 12:1), see also after the tribulation (Matt. 24:29-31).

Cheers

[Hindsfeet]

That was exactly his point, if you reread it open to understanding, he directly states after the scripture, starting with 'Note here...'

[Montana Marv]

Daniel 12:1,2 is about those of Israel, Daniels people.  No one else.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[ENOCH2010]

ok once again I will from scripture show the Pre-Trib rapture. but really with all honesty know that it may not change anyone's mind.

Dan 12:1-2

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

KJV

                                                                          

Note here that two kinds of people are raised the saved (to everlasting life) the lost (to shame and everlasting contempt).

But at this separate event in scripture only those that are asleep in Christ are raised!!!! nothing about the lost being raised here.

1 Thess 4:13-18

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

KJV

now we can find the order of end times in the end of scripture, but before I show this let me say this, the Church will not be with Jesus when he comes back for the battle of the end time. for how many kings or warriors, ever take their wife(Church/Bride) to battle with them? now some will try and say that revelation is not wrote in chronological order, but when John says and this happens and then this happens that my friend is in chronologica order!!

Rev 19:6-8

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

KJV

the marriage( the bride is in her white linen) is come but the next scriptures will show this is before the first resurrection, how is the bride there before the first resurrection? duh! by the Pre-Trib rapture/taken up. Now these scripture are still not the time that Daniel spoke of, but is yet the end of the tribulation But before the thousand year reign:

Rev 20:1-6

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

KJV

Note here those that were beheaded and had refused to take the mark of the beast, this is the great tribulation saints the ones that endured. very much crushing the doctrine that none will be saved during the great tribulation( Rev 7:14

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

KJV)

then after the thousand year reign when have the second/last resurrection:

Rev 20:7-15

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

KJV

Now I need to pull one more nail out what man has put in the coffin as They have tried to kill truth from scripture Concerning the Pre-Trib rapture. some will ask if the pre-trib rapture is true bible doctrine, why was it not taught til so long into bible history? very good Question and one that one be adressed with another question. If we are indeed saved by grace through faith and not of works why was it not preached until much later even after the pre-trib rapture was taught. before that we needed the seven sacraments(works) in order to be saved.

 

The group coming with the Lord spoken about in Rev. 19 isn't the whole bride, that group has been dying for the past 2000 years or so.(that is how they got with the Lord, not some pre-trib rapture) The bride (as people call it) won't be complete until the group that refuse the mark of the beast join in. You quoted it yourself Rev.7:14 they have white robes that have been washed it the Blood of the Lamb just like the bride. The rapture (the first resurrection) happens at the second coming as described in Rev. 20  or are you another pre-tribber that believes more than 1 first resurrection. If you are maybe you can show me where in the Bible it describes the other first resurrection.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Daniel 12:1,2 is about those of Israel, Daniels people.  No one else.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Not so, Marv. There's a few things to consider here.

Yes, it involves Daniel's descendants. But look what time it is.

This is still in the future. And now re-consider who Daniel's descendants were/are.

Now think all the way back to the cross. Christ was one of Daniel's descendants. His disciples were none other than Daniel's far off descendants as well.

Now look at it again. Everyone who is found written in the book.

And now consider that these same descendants that were the first to be converted to Christianity have passed the Gospel down to us, even us gentiles.

Just for Israel, I don't think so. That's the same thing many say about Matthew 24, but I don't think so. Look again, and look often.

Cheers

[rollinTHUNDER]

Oh, yeah! One more thing, Marv.

When Daniel's descendants, the ones who became Christ's disciples and have their names written in the book get resurrected, it's gonna be a sad day if we don't go with them. They are the dead in Christ. But that's not all, because the Old Testament saints will be going with them too, Daniel included.

Now let me leave you with one last question, or maybe two. Do you still believe the rapture will be before Daniel's 70th week (pre-trib)? Or will the dead in Christ rise first?

Check mate!

Cheers

[Montana Marv]

Oh, yeah! One more thing, Marv.

When Daniel's descendants, the ones who became Christ's disciples and have their names written in the book get resurrected, it's gonna be a sad day if we don't go with them. They are the dead in Christ. But that's not all, because the Old Testament saints will be going with them too, Daniel included.

Now let me leave you with one last question, or maybe two. Do you still believe the rapture will be before Daniel's 70th week (pre-trib)? Or will the dead in Christ rise first?

Check mate!

Cheers

Thunder

 

We do not think alike.

 

We as the Church/Bride of Christ have been given power when the HS came upon us, and then we became His witnesses.  When?  At Pentecost. Christs Disciples are part of this group, Daniel is not.  So OT Israel, all OT Saints (Adam to ???) are not the Church/Bride.  Only the Bride goes up in the Rapture; the dead in Christ first, then we who are still alive (In Christ).  Yes we do go before the 70th Week (unknown time). Enough time for  a wedding and a wedding supper.  Mid-trib, Pre-Wrath, Post-Trib all known times. 

 

Now the NT was written for NT saints, believers in Jesus Christ.  Its instructions are for us, not Israel (for they have already been yanked out of the Olive Tree.

 

What makes us different than all OT Saints. We have been given power when the HS came upon us.

 

Jump, Jump, Jump - King Me

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[rollinTHUNDER]

 

Oh, yeah! One more thing, Marv.

When Daniel's descendants, the ones who became Christ's disciples and have their names written in the book get resurrected, it's gonna be a sad day if we don't go with them. They are the dead in Christ. But that's not all, because the Old Testament saints will be going with them too, Daniel included.

Now let me leave you with one last question, or maybe two. Do you still believe the rapture will be before Daniel's 70th week (pre-trib)? Or will the dead in Christ rise first?

Check mate!

Cheers

Thunder

 

We do not think alike.

 

No doubt about that, brother.

 

 

We as the Church/Bride of Christ have been given power when the HS came upon us, and then we became His witnesses.  When?  At Pentecost.

That is true, and we have received gifts and better promises as well. But remember, to whom much is given, much more will be required (regarding rewards Luke 12:35-48). And because we have been given more, many New Testament believers will not be ready for the kingdom of heaven when He appears. But I think this is keeping you from seeing the bigger picture here. In my book I proved that the OT saints are also in Christ, but lets skip them for now. We can discuss that later if you like. So let me state my case again, without including the OT saints. Besides, what I posted last night was sloppy because I was tired. So let me clean it up some.

This involves the children of Daniel's people (descendants) at the time of the end.

Overlook Daniel for now, for this promise is for Israel's descendants, when?

Look what time it is. We're looking far into the future at the great tribulation.

Now re-consider who the children of Daniel's people (descendants) were/are.

Now think all the way back to the cross 2000 years ago.

Christ was one of the descendants of Daniel's people.

Christ' disciples were also descendants of Daniel' people as well.

Now look at it again. It says everyone who is found written in the book.

And now consider that these same descendants (Christ' disciples) beginning 2000 years ago, who were the first to be converted to Christianity and includes everyone in Christ since then.

They have passed the Gospel down, even to us gentiles, and now we are also in Christ and included in the body of Christ.

Just for Israel, I don't think so.

When Daniel's descendants, the ones who became Christ's disciples and have their names written in the book get resurrected, it's gonna be a sad day if we don't go with them, because they are the dead in Christ!!! It all begins with them, who were the descendants of Daniel, and ends during the great tribulation. This is irrefutable evidence.

Now let me leave you with one last question, or maybe two.

Do you still believe the rapture will be before Daniel's 70th week (pre-trib)? Or will the dead in Christ rise first?

 

Christs Disciples are part of this group, Daniel is not.  So OT Israel, all OT Saints (Adam to ???) are not the Church/Bride.  Only the Bride goes up in the Rapture; the dead in Christ first, then we who are still alive (In Christ).

Again, we can discuss the old covenant saints later, but this is clearly a promise for the descendants of Daniel, which also includes Christ and His disciples.

Daniel 12:1-4

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

(2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

(3) And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

(4) But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

Yes we do go before the 70th Week (unknown time). Enough time for  a wedding and a wedding supper.  Mid-trib, Pre-Wrath, Post-Trib all known times.

I just gave you irrefutable evidence proving that Daniel's descendants beginning 2000 years ago are and will be the dead in Christ? Do the dead in Christ rise first, or is it the rapture of living believers first???  Don't you think seven years is a bit much for the wedding supper?? How about seven days, like it was in the days of Noah's rescue. This would also allow the rest of the fall feasts (Atonement & Tabernacles) to be celebrated and fulfilled on time, without prolonging them seven years, which would violate God's appointed times (feasts).

A seven day wedding supper would fit the Day of Atonement like a glove. Both the Jews in Judea that flee to the mountains, as well as the tribes of Israel that are still scattered around the world, when they will see the sign of the Son of Man appear (rapture), they will mourn for the one that they pierced. And they will also look up and know that their redemption draws near. They will then declare, "Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord," after He defends Israel, and Israel's will finally be forgiven on the Day of Atonement (8 days later). So a seven day wedding supper would fit in rather nicely. One other thing the rapture will do is make Israel envious or jealous, which has never happened yet (Rom. 11:11).

 

 

Now the NT was written for NT saints, believers in Jesus Christ.  Its instructions are for us, not Israel (for they have already been yanked out of the Olive Tree.

Not a chance. The old covenant saints were not yanked out, they are saints forevermore. Only the unbelieving remnants were cut out.

 

 

What makes us different than all OT Saints. We have been given power when the HS came upon us.

Some of the old covenant saints and all of the prophets exercised in the power of the Holy Spirit as well.  The Holy Spirit was here before Pentecost. It is not the old covenant saints fault that they lived before Christ, for they were just as faithful as new covenant saints are, and many of them have outshined believers today, even when we have been given more. God will certainly not hold anything against the OT saints that were obedient. Their faith and obedience was counted as righteousness, but today, the blood of Christ is our righteousness, if only we will believe. But Christ died once (for all), both old and new covenant saints. Both must live by faith and obedience. The major difference between the two covenants, is that for 2000 years they were looking forward to the fulfillment of the promise (feasts every year), while today, we are looking back 2000 years to the cross, where Christ died once (for ALL), both old and new covenants. He did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Both are saints that are in Christ which I can prove later.

 

 

Jump, Jump, Jump - King Me

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

   No jumping aloud when the game is over, my friend, so much for the pre-trib theory. This is irrefutable evidence.