THE RESTRAINER

[missmuffet]

The removal of the Restrainer at the time of the rapture has to precede the "day of the Lord".As soon as believers start placing their faith in Christ during the trib.The Holy Spirit will again be present.His Ministry of restraining,though it is limited to the time of the trib.

[Guest]

The "Restrainer", the Holy Spirit, restrains not only the appearance of the anti-Christ but also the intentions of Satan in order to protect the Church. At the Rapture (which I guess I don't know what I know) the Holy Spirit will no longer indwell everyone who is a member of the Church as a guatantee of our salvation because the Church will be gone, any new believer will not be a member of the Church (the Church will have been Raptured) but the Holy Spirit will return to His pre-Christ role of coming upon individual believers. Since the Temple will be rebuilt and sacrifice renewed, each person will be required to maintain their own salvation. Both throught faith in Christ and obedience to the Law. They will no longer have the protection that the Church has as a guarantee of our salvation. But the Holy Spirit will still be doing It's work. Otherwise, no one would be saved after the Rapture.

[Littlelambseativy]

Well said Parker1!

Argosy, if Satan were holding back any of his minions why is there so much evil in the world today?

[Izzel]

2 Thessalonians 2:  Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie

 

Everyone seems to misunderstand this chapter. This is a really really obvious contrast between a revealing ... and the revealing being held back. The restrainer (the one who holds back) is a keeper of secrets, one who hides truth. He is holding back the revealing, he is evil, and stops truth being exposed.

 

Some people think the restrainer is good, and is holding back evil....this is not true! Read carefully he is holding back the secret power from being revealed. 

 

 

 

Revelation 12 also talks of a sudden removal of an evil entity followed by  a short period of deception and wrath:

the accuser of our brothers and sisters,

who accuses them before our God day and night,

has been hurled down.

¹¹ They triumphed over him

by the blood of the Lamb

and by the word of their testimony;

they did not love their lives so much

as to shrink from death.

¹² Therefore rejoice, you heavens

and you who dwell in them!

But woe to the earth and the sea,

because the devil has gone down to you!

He is filled with fury,

because he knows that his time is short.

 

The one who holds back the revealing of the antichrist is Satan/our accuser/the dragon of Revelation 12. When he is suddenly removed from heaven there will be great wrath and deception on earth for 3.5 years.

What do you mean satan will be removed from heaven ?

 

Are you saying satan has access to the heaven ?

God holds back not satan

God is the revealer of secrets

[OneLight]

The problem I see with how the translators went about translating the word "ho" is that in some translations they capitalize the word to He, where when capitalized as such, people are trained to see this as God doing the restraining.  The word in Greek is "the" not He.  The NKJV states "only He^[a] who now restrains will do so until He^[b] is taken out of the way. " - the sub-notes say "or he", removing the capital H.  Every other version I have looked at so far has not made such a change, referring to the one who restrains or the restrainer ... something like that.   This is where the confusion comes from.

Thanks for explaining. But what do you thnk about equating the removal of Satan from heaven in Rev 12 that results in great troubles on earth... to the removal of the restrainer/withholder in 2 Thessalonians 2 that results in great troubles on earth?

I think they are two different and separate occasions. The first, from Revelation is speaking about the birth of Christ and the battle where Satan was thrown out of heaven and the second is during the tribulation, which is future events. Instead of trying to find the similarities, look at the content in its context.

[ARGOSY]

Well said Parker1!

Argosy, if Satan were holding back any of his minions why is there so much evil in the world today?

I think I have made myself perfectly clear in this thread. Satan is holding back the PUBLIC APPEARANCE of the antichrist, but the evil is going on continuously in secret. Thus the spirit of antichrist, and the secret power of lawlessness is already at work, but the public revealing is delayed by Satan.

We know the antichrist has authority only for 42 months (Rev 13) and we know that satan's wrath is also for 3.5 years (Rev 12) so the moment when Satan is removed from heaven to start his 3.5 years of wrath is actually the same moment when the restrainer is removed which causes the revealing of the antichrist and the start of Satan's deception on earth as per 2 Thess 2.

So maybe you think another entity is also taken out the way, but even if this is true, Satan is actually taken out the way at that same moment, both occur at the start of the great tribulation.

[ARGOSY]

The problem I see with how the translators went about translating the word "ho" is that in some translations they capitalize the word to He, where when capitalized as such, people are trained to see this as God doing the restraining.  The word in Greek is "the" not He.  The NKJV states "only He^[a] who now restrains will do so until He^[b] is taken out of the way. " - the sub-notes say "or he", removing the capital H.  Every other version I have looked at so far has not made such a change, referring to the one who restrains or the restrainer ... something like that.   This is where the confusion comes from.

Thanks for explaining. But what do you thnk about equating the removal of Satan from heaven in Rev 12 that results in great troubles on earth... to the removal of the restrainer/withholder in 2 Thessalonians 2 that results in great troubles on earth?

I think they are two different and separate occasions. The first, from Revelation is speaking about the birth of Christ and the battle where Satan was thrown out of heaven and the second is during the tribulation, which is future events. Instead of trying to find the similarities, look at the content in its context.

Ok let's look at the context of Revelation 12. It is central to this topic, because obviously I'm placing the 1260 days of protection of Israel and the persecution of the saints directly into the Great Tribulation.

For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night,has been hurled down. They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea,because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short

Yes you are correct that Rev 12 concerns the birth of Jesus, but if you read the above wording you see that Rev 12 continues to describe events well after the crucifixion when Christianity was birthed. Firstly the term "brothers and sisters" is used to denote Christians, this is confirmed by the phrase "blood of the lamb" , and "word of our testimony". The order of events is , birth of Jesus, then the accuser accuses Christians until Christians overcome Satan. Then Satan falls down to earth for a short period of wrath.

This short period of wrath is after Satan is hurled down, and is for exactly 3.5 years ( a time, times and half a time), Israel is kept safe during this period of wrath:

When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

Yet Christians are persecuted during this short period of 3.5 years of Israel's protection and Satan's wrath:

Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

This fits in with Daniel 7 that also refers to this 3.5 years of persecution just before the second coming:

25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time. “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High

This also fits in with Rev 13 which also talks of the 3.5 years of persecution of the beast:

5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

So let's not be immature about this, its the bible speaking here, not the words of man. The bible is saying that after Christians have been accused for a period, we will overcome Satan who will be removed from his heavenly place , and come to earth for 3.5 years of wrath and persecution of Christians. This fits in with other verses like 2 Thessalonians 2 , Daniel 7, Rev 13 which also speak of a short period or 3.5 years of Satan's wrath and persecution, known as the great tribulation.

So if you read your bible carefully you can see that the timing of Satan's removal from heaven occurs at the same moment as the timing of the restrainer's removal, and both result in the same short period of Satan's manifestation on earth.

[ARGOSY]

2 Thessalonians 2: Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie

Everyone seems to misunderstand this chapter. This is a really really obvious contrast between a revealing ... and the revealing being held back. The restrainer (the one who holds back) is a keeper of secrets, one who hides truth. He is holding back the revealing, he is evil, and stops truth being exposed.

Some people think the restrainer is good, and is holding back evil....this is not true! Read carefully he is holding back the secret power from being revealed.

Revelation 12 also talks of a sudden removal of an evil entity followed by a short period of deception and wrath:

the accuser of our brothers and sisters,

who accuses them before our God day and night,

has been hurled down.

¹¹ They triumphed over him

by the blood of the Lamb

and by the word of their testimony;

they did not love their lives so much

as to shrink from death.

¹² Therefore rejoice, you heavens

and you who dwell in them!

But woe to the earth and the sea,

because the devil has gone down to you!

He is filled with fury,

because he knows that his time is short.

The one who holds back the revealing of the antichrist is Satan/our accuser/the dragon of Revelation 12. When he is suddenly removed from heaven there will be great wrath and deception on earth for 3.5 years.

What do you mean satan will be removed from heaven ?

 

Are you saying satan has access to the heaven ?

God holds back not satan

God is the revealer of secrets

Yes Satan has access to heavenly places. Our enemy is known as "the rulers and authorities in heavenly places"

Rev 12 clearly states that through the testimony of the believers, Satan is thrown out of heaven.

And I agree God is the revealer. This is what I am saying , the one who holds onto the "secret power of lawlessness" is not from God. God does not hold onto secrets, God removes the restrainer, resulting in the antichrist's exposure/revealing. The restrainer is evil, holding onto the secrecy.

The restrainer is removed, then all is exposed.

[ARGOSY]

The "Restrainer", the Holy Spirit, restrains not only the appearance of the anti-Christ but also the intentions of Satan in order to protect the Church. At the Rapture (which I guess I don't know what I know) the Holy Spirit will no longer indwell everyone who is a member of the Church as a guatantee of our salvation because the Church will be gone, any new believer will not be a member of the Church (the Church will have been Raptured) but the Holy Spirit will return to His pre-Christ role of coming upon individual believers. Since the Temple will be rebuilt and sacrifice renewed, each person will be required to maintain their own salvation. Both throught faith in Christ and obedience to the Law. They will no longer have the protection that the Church has as a guarantee of our salvation. But the Holy Spirit will still be doing It's work. Otherwise, no one would be saved after the Rapture.

This is all unbiblical speculation. There is nothing in the bible that supports an earlier rapture, and nothing in the bible that hints that the Holy Spirit will be removed. You are using one unbiblical view to support another unbiblical view, and then using both views to support eachother. Yet in every case that a rapture is actually mentioned, the context has more support for a second coming event that a pre-tribulation event.

[Littlelambseativy]

Though you may not desire to read the topic on www.gracethrufaith.com by Jack Kelly but he had a great explanation of this today called "The nature of post church salvation". May I recommend that you read it?