Fez Posted March 31, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted March 31, 2014 It is best to obey the Lord in all. So we should stone adulterers? That is a strawman line of reasoning. No it is not. The comment says all and says nothing. If I were under the law, or came from a church like some we discuss here, my question would be answered with a yes. And until recently, because of his one line answers I was uncertain as to Atwood's beliefs. That has since been resolved between us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted March 31, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted March 31, 2014 Are you forgetting that laws are constantly being changed? I live in the US. Our laws against murder haven't changed. In an ideal world, we would consider abortion murder, no birth control. Our government would try and convict abortion doctors on that basis. But our country has lost its moral compass. God's laws are not, but it is not His laws that are being applied and we are not asked to apply His laws to unbelievers...only to oursleves.. we are not living in OT times, nor was the law given to Gentiles...I'm not using that as an excuse...it is simply a fact. This not about applying OT laws. It is about the moral/ethical paradigm those laws create which are NOT limited to one people group. We don't have to go back to OT to realize that murder is murder and should be treated as such. I did not say anything was confusing regarding who you mean by saying 'the church'...I disagree with your collective application of your thoughts on the matter Well, it's the truth. The church has been largely silent on the matter and in some cases even sympathetic to the pro-choice cause. No shiloh...that is true. It is not about applying OT laws....but that is what the op is basing his assertions on...that is what I am responding to You have no arguement with me regarding murder...or cruelty...or abuse...I'm against all of it...however...it is my understanding that laws differ from state to state...don't they? Your country....my country...(we are cross country in my home with my husband being American and me Canadian)....the compass has lost true north many years ago As for the church.....they are not really true to Christ if they are sympathetic to murder which is what I agree abortion is, as I have already expressed I just do not care to lump everyone altogether....adultery is rampant among Christians also...the list is getting ever bigger But here we are saying we do not agree...many others also do not agree I do concede that the world has an idea of church or what it should be and in general, that picture has been very distorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almightyist Posted April 1, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 112 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/03/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Genesis 9:5-6 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being. “Whoever sheds human blood,by humans shall their blood be shed;for in the image of God has God made mankind. ...I found it interesting that this is the first and about the only thing God said after the flood to Noah. So it must be very close to Gods heart. By the way.... shed blood - - to kill by violence; slaughter. slaugh·ter - the brutal or violent killing of a person. - to kill in a brutal or violent manner. I would say that pretty much describes an abortion. So if I'm reading this correctly really the people partaking in abortion should be executed the same way. Whoever slaughters human blood by humans their blood should be slaughtered. I also find it interesting when Jesus was slaughtered....they released a murderer. Why was that murderer even alive? When did we stop obeying God on this? And why? Do u think when Jesus comes back and rules on earth he will implement what his Father told Noah? I think a little thought and understanding is required here.Time did not stand still after the flood.I would expect Noah continued to look towards God and God continued to lead him.Every word or impression or events that occured are simply not recorded in scripture and I think that believing only what is written is all that ever transpired,leads to erroneous conclusions.1. The law was not yet given, so saying that the only stipulation concerning murder was given to Noah after the flood by God would be wrong2. Why didn't God kill Cain right off? Seems He should have done so if your understanding is correct...rather, God had this to say: Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”15But the Lord said to him, “Not soe ; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,f east of Eden. Gen.43. The law was given to define sin. If you cannot keep the entire law, then you have broken all of it.Scripture actually says this regarding keeping the law:Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”d 9So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.10For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”e 11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”f 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”g 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”h 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. Gal. 3Your reasoning does not actually take into account all that the Bible has to say about God's vengeance, God's knowledge of the heart and all the other things we cannot applywhen it comes to deciding the fate of an individual.Homosexuality is also punishable by death.Who is going to run the death squads putting everyone who transgresses God's law to death? Should Christians apply the death penalty?Your premise creates questions and does not address God's solution to sin which is not arrived at by killing everyone who breaks His law because all of us are guilty of breakingHis law and all of us deserve the death penalty...even if we had never aborted a child or murdered someone or even accidentally killed someone.So God changed his mind....so shedding blood is no big deal....just ask forgiveness....so Jesus came to earth....to allow us to abort babies by the millions...innocent blood...it not a human being....it's a choice....please quote scripture that overrides God commandment... Abortionist can be forgiven...if it comes from the heart...but that shouldn't override the punishment of shedding innocent blood...no matter what a man made law says... I feel like us as humans have neglected our responsibilities....to do what God said to do... That's a rather sarcastic response based on nothing I actually wrote, wouldn't you say? How about the scriptural viewpoint I have already expressed? What are you thoughts on all of that ? Why should I or anyone else provide further evidence from the Bible that your viewpoint is skewed, if you ignore what has already been posted? I am wondering why you are just concentrating on abortion here when murder is murder is murder. Is there a special reason for your op?I can't find anywhere in the New Testament that it is unjust, immoral, or inappropriate for secular civil governments to execute those guilty of shedding innocent blood. I wasn't being sarcastic...again it appears that the majority of Christians, like you, don't believe murderers should be executed. The problem isn't God, the problem is humans. I read your responses to shiloh357 and you said it all..if I read it right...you not under the law of the Old Testament. Romans 2:12-16 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. My heart still lines up with Gods Law thru the Holy Spirit. I wouldn't even have to read the Bible and know that shedding human blood is bad and justice needs to be served. My heart tells me it's a human in the womb. terrorist act noun the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear [syn: terrorism] My heart calls it a terrorist act. We got upset on 911...a few thousand people dead....and we wanted justice 57 million slaughtered...supposedly a Christian nation...and it seems like Christians are like a bunch of ostriches...with our heads in the sand...where is justice Talking to Christians offline...come across just like you...most of them take the Joel Osteen approach ....people have been beat down enough...lets encourage the abortionist....not to do it again...and God loves them where their at.. And don't call them a murderer or terrorist...that is not kind....and they shouldn't be executed...they should be prayed for.....don't be so hateful... I don't think this approach helps stop innocent blood from being slaughtered. I guess I'm a hater...I just want justice....oh well.. I will stand with the innocent before I stand with murderers.. That is my conscience bearing witness. Their must be different Jesus's and Holy Spirits....that is my conclusion.http://www.numberofabortions.com/http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/number-executions-state-and-region-1976http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm Edited April 1, 2014 by almightyist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted April 1, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2014 I can't find anywhere in the New Testament that it is unjust, immoral, or inappropriate for secular civil governments to execute those guilty of shedding innocent blood.I wasn't being sarcastic...again it appears that the majority of Christians, like you, don't believe murderers should be executed. The problem isn't God, the problem is humans. I read your responses to shiloh357 and you said it all..if I read it right...you not under the law of the Old Testament. Your op was entirely based on one verse in the OT. You have made entirely different comments now and basically changed your statement. That's right...I am NOT under the law. Please consult the book of Romans to see why and you should not be under the law either. Believers are not under the law unless they put themself there. The unbelievers sometimes act better than believers in that respect. If you have not accepted Christ, then yes, your sin is revealed through the law and God will judge you that way. Now you know I never said murderers should not be executed. You know that full well as you just stated you have read my posts. Why add to my words if you actually want to have a discussion that respects anothers POV and actually 'listens' to the other, weighs the words and then decides how to respond? FYI, perhaps when you have been here a little longer, you will not jump to conslusions about what others here believe. I have stated that abortion is murder and that I also believe that it is a sacrifice to the devil...the Bible does not say that, but that is what I think. You have not understood my posts, even if you have read them as you say, or you would not address me as though I thought murder was not an act that deserves the same What I have actually objected to, is your apparent use of one verse...read your op for reference.... where you simply ask: Have we failed God on this command to Noah? Every single one of us have failed God but He tells us that the more important command is to love one another. Many believers gossip, are jealous, spread rumors and such...let me tell you...that is assassination of the person just as much as physical murder. There is far more to the Bible then simply killing someone who has killed someone. Do you take every command in scripture in the same black and white frame of mind that you did that verse in your op? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseey Posted April 1, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 4 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/18/1970 Share Posted April 1, 2014 No, we are not obeying God on abortion. No where in the Bible God permit us to do abortion. Life is in the hand of God and God is life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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