Post Tribbers - Please explain

[ENOCH2010]

Spock the kings, the great men, the rich men, the mighty men, the bondman and the free men say that the wrath of the Lamb has come, that is their opinion of what is happening, but the Bible says the vials contain the wrath of God. They remind me of the pre-tribbers in this thread, they think the wrath of God starts with the opening of the first seal.

[Spock]

Spock the kings, the great men, the rich men, the mighty men, the bondman and the free men say that the wrath of the Lamb has come, that is their opinion of what is happening, but the Bible says the vials contain the wrath of God. They remind me of the pre-tribbers in this thread, they think the wrath of God starts with the opening of the first seal.

Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. Peace.

[Montana Marv]

 

And yet the Post-Trib view is the only view where the rest of mankind continues to worship demons and idols.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Maybe I should quote Scripture: Rev 9:18 - A third of mankind was killed by the three plague of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths.   v.20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands, they did not stop worshiping and idols...

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

OK, well reading this verse i find it difficult to base a whole doctrine around it. For me i would need much more "back up: scripture for me to make a solid assumption of what it is saying.

 

Also, i think that the verse is open to the fact that it may not be 100% literal when it says "the rest of mankind".

 

Third, Israel has still not been saved and wont be until further on in rev.

 

Just my thoughts bro. What do you think?

 

Matt

 

Then 1/3 of mankind must be in question also.  If 1/3 of mankind die with the plagues, I wonder who the rest of mankind then is.  Those who did not die, 2/3's.

 

Israel won't be saved until they see Christ at the Second Coming.  Zech 96 - The Lord their God will save them on that day as the flock of his people.  Zech 3:9b - I will remove the sin of this land in a single day.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Enoch2021]

The Bible says the wrath of God is poured out of the vials, right after the 7th trumpet. That's when Gods wrath starts, but I'm sure the pre-tribbers want agree with what the Bible says.

 

 

R U kiddin me?  That doesn't Preclude the fact that "Wrath" didn't/doesn't come before it.     Like this one BY NAME...

 

(Revelation 6:16) "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

 

Which came from the Opening of the Sixth Seal     Present Tense!  What wrath from the Lamb??....

 

Great Earthquake, Sun as Sackcloth, Moon as Blood, Stars of Heaven Fall to Earth, Heaven Departing Like a Scroll, and Every Mountain and Island Move from Their Place.

 

What would you call these :rolleyes: ??:   Daisy Pickin??

 

 

Are you defending this graph?  If you walked into my 11 Year Old Daughters Sunday School Class with that Graph you'd get laughed out of the Building.

 

Riddle me this, How is the beast/antichrist in the the First Seal ( I actually can't believe I'm writing this) when he's in the Bottomless Pit?

 

This guy that's Locked in the Bottomless Pit until after the 5th Trumpet Sounded....

 

(Revelation 17:8) "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

 

 

And the Coup De Gras....... the 2 Witnesses in-between the 3rd and 4th Seal.   ahhh, 

 

 

Are you Endorsing the Graph....for the Record?

[ENOCH2010]

There isn't a graph in my Bible.

 

When do you say the wrath of God starts?

[Montana Marv]

Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the holy place the A/D... v16 - Flee.   v21 - For then there will be great distress, unequaled form the beginning of the world until now..  So this great distress is great tribulation filled with great wrath.  The last 3 1/2 years will be ugly for those who live on this earth.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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There isn't a graph in my Bible.

 

I'll take that as a "No" then?

 

 

When do you say the wrath of God starts?

 

@ the Latest....... 6th Seal.  See Previous Post: Rev 6:16 "wrath of the Lamb"

 

and...

 

(Revelation 6:17) "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

 

"Is come" Present Tense, not "will come".

 

 

The First 4 Seals (Four Horseman) appear to echo the "beginning of sorrows" in:  (Matthew 24:7, Luke 21:10-11, and Mark 13:8)

 

Note, Just because they are labeled the "Beginning of Sorrows" doesn't Preclude the notion that these aren't GOD'S Wrath.  They look pretty terrible to me....and All are Sourced by HIM.

 

This is pretty much academic however, the 24 Elders Seal the Deal.  In fact, I have "The Church" out of here before the Psalm 83 War which is before the Gog/Magog Invasion....

 

(Psalms 83:1-3) "Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.  {2} For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.  {3} They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones."

 

"thy people" = Israel

 

"thy Hidden Ones" =  "The Church"

[Matt36]

My opinion on the beginning of the wrath of God is that it begins the Day of the Lord starts.

 

So when does it start?

 

Rev 8 seal 7.

 

REv8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

² And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

³ And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

⁴ And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

⁵ And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

⁶ And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

 

Back a chapter i believe we see the rapture in chapter 7

 

^REV7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

 

In Rev 6 on the 6th seal we see a number of things. Great signs in the sky and the heaven depart as a scroll. I beleive that mankind can now see Christ in the sky as they can see his face. Rev 6:16 Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne,

 

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

 

So mankind sees three things, the face of Christ, the rapture which happens during seal 6 but described in chap 7 before seal 7 and great signs in the sky and on the earth.

 

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. What things? These things, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

 

So in rev 6.17 when the men of earth say ¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? They are recognising that the Day of the Lord has arrived. But it starts in seal 7 which is on the same day as seal 6.

[Matt36]

 

 

And yet the Post-Trib view is the only view where the rest of mankind continues to worship demons and idols.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Maybe I should quote Scripture: Rev 9:18 - A third of mankind was killed by the three plague of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths.   v.20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands, they did not stop worshiping and idols...

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

OK, well reading this verse i find it difficult to base a whole doctrine around it. For me i would need much more "back up: scripture for me to make a solid assumption of what it is saying.

 

Also, i think that the verse is open to the fact that it may not be 100% literal when it says "the rest of mankind".

 

Third, Israel has still not been saved and wont be until further on in rev.

 

Just my thoughts bro. What do you think?

 

Matt

 

Then 1/3 of mankind must be in question also.  If 1/3 of mankind die with the plagues, I wonder who the rest of mankind then is.  Those who did not die, 2/3's.

 

Israel won't be saved until they see Christ at the Second Coming.  Zech 96 - The Lord their God will save them on that day as the flock of his people.  Zech 3:9b - I will remove the sin of this land in a single day.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

good point Marv

[Matt36]

Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the holy place the A/D... v16 - Flee.   v21 - For then there will be great distress, unequaled form the beginning of the world until now..  So this great distress is great tribulation filled with great wrath.  The last 3 1/2 years will be ugly for those who live on this earth.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Absolutley this is correct Marv.

 

But i dont think the great tribulation is filled with great wrath.

 

I believe that the great tribulation follows tribulation and then the day of the Lord starts (Gods wrath)

 

So, if the Day of the Lord must occur after the rapture then seal 7 of rev 8 must be past the AoD point or the midpoint.

 

So therefore the time of great tribulation must start at seal 4 and continue untill seal 6.

 

Do you differentiate between the Day of the Lord and the Great tribulation Marv?