Post Tribbers - Please explain

[Enoch2021]

 

Montana Marv...... Love where your minds at      Very Insightful.....gotta Love the Simplicity.

 

 

So your Thesis is:  If "The Church" who's Mission is to proclaim the Gospel to the World is still on the Earth during The Great Tribulation, then why the need for the Angel to proclaim it "to those who live on the Earth" in Rev 14?

 

Any takers??

 

 

Then after that:

 

How does the "Bride"----------> "The Church" (Born Again Christians), FOLLOW Christ in HIS SECOND COMING (See Rev 19) after the Marriage Supper if they're still on the Earth waiting to be "Raptured" ??

 

 

The WORD is a Two-Edged Sword.  Nothing can stand up to it, save............................THE TRUTH!!

 

 

Praise The LORD!!

 

1) the logic is based on the fact the Church is holy and reached perfection and can therefore be raptured? When in fact the church is sick with strange doctrines...dispensationlism, covenant theolgy, rapture and so on

2) There are two faults here pls refer to  Rev 21:9 and the assessment that the bride is the church is an assumption. The bride is not just the Church my friend

 

and to further lay claim to "Nothing can stand up to it, save............................THE TRUTH!!" you first must find out the doctrine you believe in is the TRUTH.  

 

 

 

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2) There are two faults here pls refer to  Rev 21:9 and the assessment that the bride is the church is an assumption. The bride is not just the Church my friend

 

 

(2 Corinthians 11:2) "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

 

(Ephesians 5:31-32) "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.  {32} This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

 

 

You were saying?

 

Go ahead and post your false.....errr, I mean Doctrine with Rev 21:9??

 

 

When in fact the church is sick with strange doctrines...dispensationlism, covenant theolgy, rapture and so on

 

 

The False "Churches" are sick with False Doctrine.  But the "Born Again Church" is not. 

 

Dispensationalism has degrees and is relatively easy to Discern when you "Rightly Divide" the WORD.  See, here's one....

 

(Matthew 11:13) " For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."

 

The Rapture is Foundational Christian Doctrine. 

 

Covenant Theology?  Please explain.....?

 

 

the logic is based on the fact the Church is holy and reached perfection and can therefore be raptured

 

"The Church" isn't perfect of her own volition..... she is perfect by the Completed Work of Christ.  There are no Prerequisite Condition for her to be Raptured, ZERO!!  That was PAID IN FULL on the CROSS!!

[mevosper]

inchrist - Good stuff. I'm in agreement that the bible teaches of the Spirit and of grace to OT believers/saints.  Even if OT saints did not understand the concept of the cross, nor know Christ's name, they did know and were taught about the saving grace of God. It seems others in this forum would be in disagreement. 

 

Psa 84:11 KJV

For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

 

Zec 4:7 KJV

Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.

 

Zec 12:10 KJV

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

Rom 4:16 KJV

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

 

Tit 2:11 KJV

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

 

Heb 2:9 KJV

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Edited April 29, 2014 by mevosper

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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Im just going to sit back and laugh you took texts from letters addressing the church at Corinthian and this is the beauty you took text from the letters addressed at the church at Ephesus.....just dwell on that for me for a second.

 

Yes, I took texts Directly from Scripture from the Letters addressed to these Churches.   It's Really Hilarious, I barely can contain myself.

 

 

You just helped me incorporate the judasim in the body of christ as his bride.

 

And......?  Why/How?

 

 

rapture being the foundation of Christianity,

 

Well yes, Maybe "The Rapture" as Foundational Doctrinal....was a bit over the Top; forgive me, I may have been somewhat overzealous.  Basic Doctrine would have been more appropriate.

[Montana Marv]

 

Those filled with the HS as those at Pentecost.  This separates the Bride from all others.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

You just contradicted yourself THose Filled with the HS ........this separates the bride from all others.

 

Lets look at OT people who were also filled with the HS

 

And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts (Exodus 31:3).

 

 

He gave him the plans of all that the Spirit had put in his mind for the courts of the temple of the Lord and all the surrounding rooms, for the treasuries of the temple of God and for the treasuries for the dedicated things (1 Chronicles 28:12).

 

Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? (Psalm 139:7).

 

my Spirit remains among you. Do not fear’ (Haggai 2:4-5).

 

so then we cant say JOB is separated from the bride? The spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life (Job 33:4) But it is the Spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding (Job 32:8).

 

 

Teach me to do your will, for you are my God; may your good Spirit lead me on level ground (Psalm 143:10). are they seperated by the Bride? as you said those who are filled with the holy spirit

 

 

You gave your good Spirit to instruct them. You did not withhold your manna from their mouths, and you gave them water for their thirst (Nehemiah 9:20; cf. also 9:30).

 

Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me (Psalm 51:11).

 

“Woe to the obstinate children,” declares the LORD, “to those who carry out plans that are not mine, Forming an alliance, but not by my Spirit, heaping sin upon sin; who go down to Egypt without consulting me; who look for help to Pharaoh’s protection, to Egypt’s shade for refuge” (Isaiah 30:1-2).

 

The problem lies with understanding the holy spirit and the "Church" In order for Israel's salvation is not only to Israelites, but to people of every tongue and nation and tribe. When Jesus presented Himself to Israel as their Messiah, as recorded in Luke 4, He was quick to point out to these jews that the blessings He came, in the Spirit, to bring to them, He came to bring to the gentiles as well 

 

Now using your own words those who are filled with the holy spirit, will include the OT Saints, Jews and Gentiles to all be the bride of Christ.

 

The very first "church" was Jewish to the teeth, so was the second, which started to introduce gentiles to their assembly. The very topic of who the "bride was" would of been discussed at both the Jewish church and the mixed church during that time. Both Jews and gentiles understood the meaning of who the bride was and what made up the bride...before the "church" became westernized with the thinking of a western looking talking bride

 

inchrist

 

Matt 27:51 - At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.  The OT saints did not have direct access to the Holy of Holies except one time a year and that by the High Priest.  We as NT Believers, the Church and Bride of Christ have direct access to the Holy of Holies through Jesus Christ our High Priest.  We have 24/7 access.  The OT saints (Israel) had a one time a year access.  We are different.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

inchrist

 

The HS dwells in NT Believers.  With OT saints, the HS came upon individuals and when the task was done, He was gone.  In  Acts chapter 1 and 2; John baptized with water, but in a few days, you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.  But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you.  All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit.. 2.16 - This is what the prophet Joel says - In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.  The HS was given to us as a Counselor, for he lives with you and will be in you.   We are in Christ and Christ is in us.  This is what separates us from all other saints.  Jesus Christ the Bridegroom has a Bride to take to His Fathers House.

 

Yes we as NT Believers are different from all other saints.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

inchrist

 

Again those were types, pointing to a future time.  Israel did not receive power when the HS came upon them.  There are many types for Christ.

 

The thick cloud was so God could not been seen, yet He could be heard.  I don't recall Israel speaking in tongues when the HS "was upon them"

 

Now if Israel was really filled with the HS, which comes by Faith, Why was Israel given the Law which comes by works.  Gal 3:11, 12 - Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because the righteous will live by faith.  The law is not based on faith.  If Israel had the HS, they did not need the law.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

I

Hi Montana,

before I can answer, I need a clearafication, wwhen you say tongues, you talking about babble or known tongues?

If a Frenchman came to them, they would speak French,  If someone from Cush came to them, they would speak their language.  If someone came from Turkey, they could speak Turkish.  Yet they lived and multiplied in Egypt for 400 years.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[ENOCH2010]

Marv you might ought to take another look at the hall of fame of faith in the book of Hebrews

[Montana Marv]

inchrist

 

Exo 32:7 - Then the Lord said to Moses, Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt have become corrupt. Exo 40:34 - The the cloud covered the Tent of Meetings, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

 

Why then did all die in the wilderness above age 21 expect for Joshua and Caleb; those all died because of unbelief.  Israel has been pulled out of the olive tree because of unbelief.  When, since they were with Moses.

 

The HS was given at Pentecost.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

Marv you might ought to take another look at the hall of fame of faith in the book of Hebrews

 

So yes, both Jew and Gentile

 

Yet, Jesus says in John  14:15 - and I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever, the Spirit of Truth. 14:26 - But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. v.26 - When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth who goes out from the Father, He will testify about me, and you also must testify.

 

But they were not of the Bride of Christ.  Yet we as the Bride/Church will testify about Jesus Christ.  Who gives us power, the Holy Spirit.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv