Is there an Apostasy?

[RGR]

I would like to ask that this be placed as a new topic.

Jesus Stated in Matt 24:5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many." On into the discussion He stated that many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

We find in II Th 2:3 That there will be a great falling away in the end times. "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,"

These and other scriptures warn of a great Apostasy that is predicted to come about in the last days. This Apostasy can only be of the word of God in what we know as the Christian religion because there would be no importance in the warnings if this was say of the Muslim or Buddhist religion.

For more foundation to this fact we find scripture that state "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' Matt 7:22-23.

Notice the time setting in the above scripture is the last judgment. These people being judged were doing things during their lifetime in the Name Christian, but Jesus will not accept them, Why?

We also read a warning from the apostle Paul in second Timothy 4:3-4? "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

Notice that these people will heap to themselves teachers...I would have to assume that these teachers are teaching scripture.

It would take many years for this to be put in place and for it to deceive the masses so the question is, do you see it in the christian religion today and if so where?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi and God Bless.

The modern day Pentecostal church, has indeed, become the man made reliegion, made up of "Professing Christians"...........who are fullfiling these scriptures.

Spiritual power, described by them, is nothing more than 'positive thinking', and a desire of the flesh, to accomplish our Lords will.

Kind of like the flesh, if it "FEELS" good, it must be from God........Foolishness, and the flesh, with it`s carnal desires, will decieve you into beliving a LIE.

The masses, are being decieved today, in the pentecostal local churches.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I take offense at that. There may be some problems within certain segments of the Pentecostal church (Word of Faith & it's get rich quick thing) but I am Pentecostal and you're WAAAAYYYY off base. Pentecostal is about an experience with God, not about "positive thinking," etc.

[RGR]

Timothy,

Please quit following a man, Herbert W. Armstrong, and listen to the teachings of Jesus. You talk about going to church on Saturday instead of Sunday. Why did the Apostle Paul teach for every man to lay aside on the first day of the week as the Lord had blessed them? Could it be they were worshipping on the first day of the week?

Why did Jesus say that it isn't what goes in a man that makes him unclean? It even says in the Scriptures that by His saying this, He made all meats clean!

Get your eyes off of Herbert W. Armstrong and on to teachings of the Bible. I've been through Armstrong's junk before and I can smell it a mile away.

BTW, check out this website and you'll be in for an interesting read!

[Guest Masterstable]

Worthy watchman

To address me as a wise one is such a derogatory term and I really don't understand why you would address me that way.

It is because it has become tiring watching people coming in here looking for recruits to their movement.

We have seen this attack on mailine denominations before and churches before.

Your "what we call Christianity" statement relating it to "the great apostacy" set my alarms off.

This attack being your first post did not ease my suspicions any, either.

The problem is that many have not questioned their beliefs but just have went along with what their church teach. All I want to do is challenge people to think about why they believe what they do and to consider that Satan is alive and he surely wants to attack the truth of God.

[ayin jade]

Bibles that have been re-worded,

If I may ask, what are you saying? The bible is in error? Or just certain ones?

music that makes us focus on the cross and other pagan ideas, instead of uplifting praises to God like we find in the Psalms.

Certain secular music would fit into that true. Im curious about the statement

[Guest shiloh357]

Apostasy in this case means a departure from the original doctrines. That is why I listed some of them in an earlier post.

Apostasy is the rejection/denial of Christ. It is not merely a departure from doctrines. I can tell from what post in the paragraphs that follow, that you pretty much feel that the Church is apostate. The truth is that you follow a cult leader named Herbert Armstrong. You are the one following all kinds of false teachings.

Bibles that have been re-worded,

Really... so which Bibles have been reworded? All of them? What is your manuscript evidence to support this allegation? Oh wait... Armstrong says it, so it must be true.. right?

If God commands we keep the Passover on the 14th. Of Abib (Aviv), Satan must get people to keep it on the 15th.

Actually I keep Passover, and the reason that the seder is on the 15th is because the commandment was that the lamb was to be killed on the 14th at 3:00 pm. The Lamb was roasted and then eaten that evening (the 15th). The seder is not the Passover, so having the seder on the 15th is not problematic. The Lamb is the Passover, but since there is no Temple, there can be no Passover lamb.

If God tells us we will not become born again until the resurrection, and that's when those God calls will become Spirit...Satan has to teach we are born again now, and we can receive the kingdom now, or that the kingdom is within us.

IN Jn 5 and 1Jn. 5, we are told that Eternal Life is something we can we have today. We can know, according to the Scriptures that we possess Eternal Life now. We do not have to wait for the resurrection to know that.

What you are teaching is much closer to what the Mormons teach.

If God teaches salvation by grace with works as the fruits of grace...Satan teaches salvation by grace alone, and gets people thinking they don

[Matthitjah]

Table,

I ask again? Are the writings of Paul Holy writ? Are they the Word of God?

I saw at your site that you do not believe Paul's writings to be the Word of God only relatable?

Also brother Shilo is correct. Apostasy is a falling away from Christ. From the Truth of the Word. It is in essence lawlessness. Without Christ you cannot keep the Law. Yet with Christ you would try to yoke people under it in a manner of day's on which to worship and what to put in our mouths.

The Lord claimed that men would worship God in Spirit and in Truth.

So is He only present on Saturday's?

Would it be wrong to hold a youth service on say a Thursday night? Or should it only be Saturday?

Apostasy has always been even from the beginnings of the Church. Paul spoke of it. James spoke of it. John spoke of it.

Yes the western Church is a mess. It is full of denial of God's very Word. Yet is God able to keep a remnant? There has always been a beautiful Bride and a whore. Scripture does speak of this. Even in Babylon God kept a remnant. Daniel would not partake of the Kings delightful food. Only holding Himself over in Faith to God. As a testimony.

There was only one left of God in Elijah's day? Or so Elijah thought?

Peace,

Dave

[JimR-OCDS]

I doesn't surprise me that fingers would start to point at various denominations, as being apostate. Of course, the denomination or lack of, that the person pointing the finger, would not be apostate.

There was plenty of apostacy to go around during the first centuries of the Christian Church. Gnosticism, Arianism, etc were part of the persecution of the true Church. Could it be, that this is what Paul was speaking about in Scripture, and it has nothing to do with the various denominations we have today?

Is being tolerant of the religious belief's of other's, really apostacy? Seems to me, it's what the Gospel is all about. The story of the Good Samaritan is a prime example, of how we are to tolerate people of other belief's.

The commandment Jesus gave, to love your neighbor as yourself, doesn't put limits as to what religion they belong to.

Based on the many attitudes and actions committed by christians today, I can understand how non-Christians would reject Christianity as a true path to God. This is the true apostacy.

Edited December 28, 2004 by JimR-OCDS

[Guest Masterstable]

Timothy,

Please quit following a man, Herbert W. Armstrong, and listen to the teachings of Jesus.  You talk about going to church on Saturday instead of Sunday.  Why did the Apostle Paul teach for every man to lay aside on the first day of the week as the Lord had blessed them?  Could it be they were worshipping on the first day of the week?

Why did Jesus say that it isn't what goes in a man that makes him unclean?  It even says in the Scriptures that by His saying this, He made all meats clean!

Get your eyes off of Herbert W. Armstrong and on to teachings of the Bible.  I've been through Armstrong's junk before and I can smell it a mile away.

BTW, check out this website and you'll be in for an interesting read!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry but you are greatly mistaken...I believe that H. W. Armstrong was very wrong in many ways and for him to state he was the end time apostle etc. was a bunch of hype to get people to follow him instead of Christ. What you are failing to understand about me is that I have done my own study and research. I have proven for myself what I teach. I follow Jesus alone.

Regards

Timothy

[Guest Masterstable]

Apostasy in this case means a departure from the original doctrines. That is why I listed some of them in an earlier post.

Apostasy is the rejection/denial of Christ. It is not merely a departure from doctrines. I can tell from what post in the paragraphs that follow, that you pretty much feel that the Church is apostate. The truth is that you follow a cult leader named Herbert Armstrong. You are the one following all kinds of false teachings.

Bibles that have been re-worded,

Really... so which Bibles have been reworded? All of them? What is your manuscript evidence to support this allegation? Oh wait... Armstrong says it, so it must be true.. right?

If God commands we keep the Passover on the 14th. Of Abib (Aviv), Satan must get people to keep it on the 15th.

Actually I keep Passover, and the reason that the seder is on the 15th is because the commandment was that the lamb was to be killed on the 14th at 3:00 pm. The Lamb was roasted and then eaten that evening (the 15th). The seder is not the Passover, so having the seder on the 15th is not problematic. The Lamb is the Passover, but since there is no Temple, there can be no Passover lamb.

If God tells us we will not become born again until the resurrection, and that's when those God calls will become Spirit...Satan has to teach we are born again now, and we can receive the kingdom now, or that the kingdom is within us.

IN Jn 5 and 1Jn. 5, we are told that Eternal Life is something we can we have today. We can know, according to the Scriptures that we possess Eternal Life now. We do not have to wait for the resurrection to know that.

What you are teaching is much closer to what the Mormons teach.

If God teaches salvation by grace with works as the fruits of grace...Satan teaches salvation by grace alone, and gets people thinking they don

[Guest Masterstable]

Table,

I ask again? Are the writings of Paul Holy writ? Are they the Word of God?

I saw at your site that you do not believe Paul's writings to be the Word of God only relatable?

Also brother Shilo is correct. Apostasy is a falling away from Christ. From the Truth of the Word. It is in essence lawlessness. Without Christ you cannot keep the Law. Yet with Christ you would try to yoke people under it in a manner of day's on which to worship and what to put in our mouths.

The Lord claimed that men would worship God in Spirit and in Truth.

So is He only present on Saturday's?

Would it be wrong to hold a youth service on say a Thursday night? Or should it only be Saturday?

Apostasy has always been even from the beginnings of the Church.  Paul spoke of it. James spoke of it. John spoke of it.

Yes the western Church is a mess. It is full of denial of God's very Word. Yet is God able to keep a remnant? There has always been a beautiful Bride and a whore. Scripture does speak of this. Even in Babylon God kept a remnant. Daniel would not partake of the Kings delightful food. Only holding Himself over in Faith to God. As a testimony.

There was only one left of God in Elijah's day? Or so Elijah thought?

Peace,

Dave

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You asked..."I ask again? Are the writings of Paul Holy writ? Are they the Word of God?"

The one thing that many bible students fail to understand is that the books or writings of Paul and others were just letters sent to various churches for the purpose of teachings for that congregation and to solve problems. Although there are great examples we can follow in Paul