kwikphilly Posted May 18, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,135 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,816 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2014 Blessings Marv.... I do understand what you are saying,appreciate you sharing your thoughts thank you.I think we are sort of all saying the same thing but we have different definitions of our words(if you know what I mean & if you agree?) I really like the way Willa has defined conviction & I agree that it is probably not the best word fojr this application.......it is like what I was trying to express only I think she said it much better.....Christ is crucified ONCE for our sin,all sin.....forgiveness for even our sin we have unknowingly committed & we live in Gods righteousness,we are Holy,Pleasing,Worthy,Acceptable an so we have repented and have Christ abiding in us....the Holy Spirit is opposed to sin,the desires of our hearts have changed as New Creatures in Christ,walking in spirit it is His Heart & Mind that we live & breathe and do not want to sin...............yes,the Counselor is guiding us I cannot really even add to what Willa says,Glory to God When we crucified our flesh & died to our old man we are indeed "Free in Christ",sin condemnation hangs on the cross With love,in Christ,Kwik BTW,I love discussions like this where we all share & reason together,,,,,it is this group of Brothers & Sisters-LOL God Bless you all!Praises to our Lord! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almightyist Posted May 18, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 112 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/03/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2014 1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. God who convicts you try's to help you identify your sinfulness. So you will repent. Because God loves and will forgive. God doesn't want you to be condemned when you leave this world. He wants to welcome you with open arms and eternal life. Satan who accuses you try's to condemns someone of sinfulness. Says you don't need to repent. Because God hates you and will never forgive you and you have no hope. He wants you to be condemned in this world and when you leave this world. I believe some have a misunderstanding of convict and accuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 We are coming from entirely different belief systems. I don't believe in unconditional eternal security, so I am the most at odds with the OP. I believe that if we fail to walk in the Spirit, we are under the curse of the law. That means that the Spirit is very active in revealing to us our sins. Then there are those who believe in eternal security, but they also believe that the Spirit convicts us of sin. The Bible states that God chastises his children. The OP is the most extreme version of unconditional eternal security. This is based on the notion that when you get saved, all past, present and future sins are automatically covered by the blood, and God can't even see when you sin. That would mean I could commit adultery, steal, kill, bear false witness, anything, and God can't see it. I have been inoculated from sin. God can't see through the blood line. The problem with that doctrine is that if that were so, how can God chastise you? How can he chastise a person for doing something he can't see? So far, we are seeing reactions from three schools of thought. 1. Those who reject unconditional eternal security completely. 2. Those who believe in unconditional eternal security, but believe God sees our sins and leads us to do better. 3. Those who believe that God can't see through the blood line, so he doesn't know when a Christian sins. I am in the first camp. The OP is in the third camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted May 18, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2014 I agree with those who state that the Holy Spirit DOES in fact convict us when we sin...there is no comparison between guilt and conviction. When we are convicted we understand we have sinned and need to deal with it. If a Christian feels guilty tho, it means they need a better understanding of Christ's atonement on our behalf. I don't believe that God does not see our sins that we commit after we are saved. In fact, I never heard that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I agree with those who state that the Holy Spirit DOES in fact convict us when we sin...there is no comparison between guilt and conviction. When we are convicted we understand we have sinned and need to deal with it. If a Christian feels guilty tho, it means they need a better understanding of Christ's atonement on our behalf. I don't believe that God does not see our sins that we commit after we are saved. In fact, I never heard that at all. I have heard some extremist preachers claim that God can't see the sins of a believer because they are under the blood line. They say that nothing unclean can enter heaven, and nothing unclean can enter the presence of God, so it stands to reason that he can't see our sins if we are saved. If he could, he would be angry at us, and it would create separation. If you were to do something you knew was wrong, are you saying you wouldn't feel guilty? If you lied about a Christian, are you saying you wouldn't feel guilty? If you stole from someone, are you saying you wouldn't feel guilty? If you cheated on your husband, are you saying you wouldn't feel guilty? I feel guilty if I do wrong, because I am guilty. I actually did something sinful or wrong. To do wrong and refuse to admit being guilty is to be in denial. Perhaps we have a different way of looking at feeling guilt. I don't know, so I would really like to understand you better. Can you clarify your position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted May 18, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2014 What are u talking about Butero? I don't think you understood my post or maybe I was not clear enough? I am saying the Holy Spirit convicts of sin but we are not condemned if we confess our sin...I agree with what other posters have said A Christian cannot lead a sinful lifestyle and imagine everything is fine. I don't quite agree with some of what you believe, as you know, but there is really nothing complicated about what I do believe that I am aware of...Willaminas' post 10 seems to sum things up quite nicely I thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 What are u talking about Butero? I don't think you understood my post or maybe I was not clear enough? I am saying the Holy Spirit convicts of sin but we are not condemned if we confess our sin...I agree with what other posters have said A Christian cannot lead a sinful lifestyle and imagine everything is fine. I didn't fully understand you, so that is why I asked you to explain what you meant. Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding. I hope you didn't take an offense, because it was just a sincere question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 7 Things the Holy Spirit Doesn’t Do? - First Two... We can talk about the others in a seperate thread. This really made an impact on my wife and I so I figured I'd share with Worthy... Feedback? 7 Things the Holy Spirit Doesn’t Do? What do you think is the most important thing about you? What you think about God is the foundation of your beliefs about life, family, identity, purpose, etc. Then your beliefs, in turn, set the course for how you live your life. In other words, your view of God affects every decision you make and every action you take. In this post we’ll take a look at our view of the Holy Spirit. You’ll find it is often shaped by old covenant traditions rather than new covenant truths. Seeing the Holy Spirit through the lens of grace without a mixture of law allows revelation of the Holy Spirit and His work to become clear. Here is a list of 7 things the Holy Spirit most definitely does not do. He does not: 1. Convict you of your sin Jesus has forgiven all your sins – past, present, future – by the sacrifice of Himself (Heb. 9:26, 1 John 2:2). How could the Holy Spirit convict you of something that is done away with? How could He convict you of something He chooses not to remember (Heb. 10:17)? John 16:8-10 says that the Holy Spirit convicts unbelievers of the sin of unbelief in Jesus but that He convicts you, as a believer, of your righteousness. (for more on this see – “God will not convict believers of sin!” He shows you that you are acting like someone else when you sin by convicting you of who you really are. There is a reason you sense an internal conflict when you sin. It is the Holy Spirit reminding you of who you are. Making you aware of the fact that you are not acting according to your righteous nature. He isn’t a Fault finder who is pointing out your faults. He’s called the Comforter for a reason. 2. Empower you to strive for sanctification (or holiness) “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him“ (Col. 2:6). Did you fast, pray or act holy to receive Jesus? I don’t think so. You received His Spirit by faith, not by works (Gal. 3:14). Just as you’ve done nothing for your justification, so you need to do nothing for your sanctification. You can’t work at your sanctification because there’s nothing you can do that can make you more sanctified. The Holy Spirit doesn’t empower you to strive for sanctification (or holiness) through fasting, praying, acting holy etc. Rather He empowers you to rest in the fact you are already sanctified. Trust in the fact you have been sanctified and allow Christ to live His holy life through you (Heb. 10:14). Yeah, I have to disagree with these two things. The Holy Spirit doesn't condemn us over our sin, but to say he doesn't convict or reprove believers when they sin is just not true. The Holy Spirit often reproves us through the Word of God. He not only convicts or convinces of our sin, also disciplines us for it according to Hebrews 12:5-7. To say that we are not empowered to live in holiness is also false. I rest in the initial sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit that occurred the minute I got saved, but sanctification is a daily process wherein we are conformed more and more into the image of Christ and that is God at work in us in the Person of the Holy Spirit. I am positionally holy, but I am also walking (or trying to walk) in practical, daily holiness through the sanctifying grace imparted to me by the Holy Spirit on a daily basis. To say that I am not empowered to strive for holiness means that I am trying to obey God's commandments for living a holy life in the power of my flesh and that is just not acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted May 20, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I with the first point disagree. Holy Spirit does convict of sin, He doesn't condem us to our sin, but if we're living in it, His work is to convict us and get us out of it.John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Not only get us out of sin, but also empower us to walk righteously. He does empowers us, not to strive, but to live in the reality of who we are in Him. He gives us His righteousness and empowers us to walk it out. We cannot strive for our own Holiness, He gives us His. Romans 8:3 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 2 Peter 1: 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted May 20, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 Blessings Golden Eagle!!! Amen..............glory be to God! I was just about to add some things & realized you are going on to 5 more things,looking forward to what else you will share! With love-in Christ,Kwik For clarification these were not my ideas sister. Bas is a missionary in Amsterdam. Just something my wife shared wtih me and I wanted to bounce it off of others. Also going to share this with my pastor and small group leader. I hadn't really thought of it in the terms presented in the OP. And yes there's some more ideas Bas (author) presents. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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