Revelation 13

[Spock]

Spock

 

Satan, the final world leader is the one who is fighting against the king of the North and South, they rebel against him, He is the one who the ten kingdoms give their allegiance to near the end (Rev 17:12), and alarmed by the king from the East.  A/C's rule is the first half of the 70th Week, for he signs a treaty with many, and he sets up the A/D at the mid point of the week.  Shortly before Armageddon, we see the dragon, beast (A/C) and false prophet together calling the kings of the earth for battle (Rev 16: 13-16)

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

Thanks Marv.

 

Do you see Satan coming down taking the form of a man, or does he have to possess some other man to manifest himself? 

[Montana Marv]

He comes down trying to be an angel of light, but ends up being an angel of darkness.  He does not take human form.  He is what he is.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Salty]

He comes down trying to be an angel of light, but ends up being an angel of darkness.  He does not take human form.  He is what he is.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

With that you and I definitely agree. You see, we do agree on some things.

 

Those who think Satan or the angels must do some Hollywood body possession thing of another's human body just to manifest on this earth, well, I wonder what they think about all the Bible Scripture of angels appearing on earth to flesh man? (a la Gen.18-19).

 

In Hebrews 13 we're told to be mindful to entertain strangers, because some have entertained angels and didn't know they were angels.

 

That reveals that angelic hosts (including Satan since he has the angelic realm type body) have, and can manifest upon this earth in our dimension without the need to do some demon possession thing. Afterall, the image of man is from God's Own Image Likeness per Gen.1. And the angels have that same likeness of man's image also. Archangel Gabriel's name even means 'man of God'.

[Spock]

Ok, you believe satan will be ruling after the abomination of desolation.

To,what extent is his rule on earth? Is it global? If not, what then?

[Spock]

Spock

Satan, the final world leader is the one who is fighting against the king of the North and South, they rebel against him, He is the one who the ten kingdoms give their allegiance to near the end (Rev 17:12), and alarmed by the king from the East. A/C's rule is the first half of the 70th Week, for he signs a treaty with many, and he sets up the A/D at the mid point of the week. Shortly before Armageddon, we see the dragon, beast (A/C) and false prophet together calling the kings of the earth for battle (Rev 16: 13-16)

In Christ

Montana Marv

One more thing Marv,

It doesn't jive with me that somehow the antichrist bows out of the scene at the abomination of desolation. Isn't he the one who is asking for people to bow down and worship him? ( Not satan.)

5The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

Do you not agree this 42 months is after the abomination and not before it? It says " all inhabitants of the earth will WORSHIP the beast (antichrist), not the dragon (Satan).

[Montana Marv]

Spock

 

The A/C is the man of Dan 9:27.  He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven, In the middle of the week he will set up the A/D.  42 months. First half of the week.

 

Satan comes on the scene after the A/D is set up.  Rev 12: 5,6)  He pursues the woman (Israel)  who gave birth to the Christ.  The woman fled into the desert for 1,260 days (42 months).  Rev 12 13... When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to earth, he pursued the woman, v14 - she was taken care of for 3 1/2 years.  Israel is living under peace for the first 3 1/2 years to build their temple, they live in fear the next 3 1/2 years.  Both the A/C and the dragon will sit in the temple proclaiming to be God.

 

I believe it is the appearance of the two witnesses just prior to the middle of the week which sets the A/C off, and then he sets up the A/D.  Cause and Effect.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Persuaded]

When I read of the dragon doing something, I generally see him as doing something through one of the earthly powers/kings. In the same way that Ezekiel 28:12 begins as a lament against Tyrus and then shifts and looks through Tyrus at the power behind his throne and rails against Lucifer himself, or the way the angel in Daniel 10 was withstood by the "prince of the kingdom of Persia". These kings have a spiritual component behind them, and we generally "see" the physical, earthly kings' actions. In John's visions, he is given the ability to see things as they really are, as Daniel and Ezekiel did.

 

So in Rev 12 as the dragon tries to devour the man child as it is born, it most directly refers to Satan's schemes to kill Christ (Herod and the babies of Bethlehem, the jewish leadership trying to stone/throw Him off a cliff etc, and ultimately the cross), but it also refers idiomatically to the woman as Israel giving birth to "the seed of the woman" of Gen 3 as she through her history has been the channel from which the Messiah must come. After the cross, it is a proof of Israel's future role and importance that the dragon has continued to attempt to devour her seed- the world's and the historical church's generally anti-Semitic views that have lead to the crusades, the inquisition, the holocaust, and Islam.

 

Next, the beast of Rev 13 with its seven heads and ten horns has them all at the same time, not sequentially. Same with Neb's image, it had ten toes all at once, Dan 2:44 "And in the days of these kings [the ten toes] shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." I take this to be a confederation of nations, consisting of remnants of the never-conquered Roman empire that may or may not exist today.

 

Rev 13:7 KJV " And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

and

Dan 7:21 KJV "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"

and

Mat 16:18 KJV "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

 

...all in the Church are saints, but not all saints are in the Church. Tribulation saints are those that are saved from among the earth-dwellers. They are not in the category of "Church". Our citizenship is in heaven, we tabernacle on the earth, and we are not "those that dwell on the earth" that so frequently show up in Rev. It is an interesting study to see what is promised to the Revelation saints, versus what is promised to the Church. Saints serve the throne, but the church rules with Him, that kind of thing.

 

John the Baptist was not Church.

Mat 11:13 KJV "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."

Luk 16:16 KJV "The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

Mat 11:11 KJV "Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

I know in my life I haven't earned a better reward than John deserves, but here Christ says that we are to receive a different outcome.

 

Rev 13:13,14 KJV "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

...in our age of rationalism, we are generally not ready for someone that can work miracles. Although only God can raise from the dead, the beast ha the ability to counterfeit that power so that we would not know the difference. We are too conditioned to believe what we see, rather than hear. "faith comes by hearing..."

seeing = experiences = feeling

but

hearing = reading = revealed truth

 

Rev 13:17 KJV "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

This isn't barcodes or atm cards. It is a mark that one takes to identify with the beast. It isn't a mark he gives you. It his his mark. I don't think anybody nows what this will be today, but I trust it will be obvious when the time comes, to those for whom the knowledge is relevant.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

 

You have some interesting thoughts & questions in your post #69 re: Is the final beast kingdom global. My answer is `yes,` & I will work through your thoughts & explain why.

 

1. The Final Kingdom will be Global. Remember Daniel`s great image. (Dan. 2: 31 - 45) It is God`s overview of just the world rulers down through history. The times of the gentiles ruling the world. There has been many, many great empires in history but only 4 World Rulers ruling the world (known world) & we know that there is one more to come - the one with the 10 kings.

 

`You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength & glory; & wherever the children of men dwell,....He has given them into you hand, & has made you ruler over them all.....But after you shall arise another kingdom....then another...which shall rule the whole earth.` (Dan. 2: 37 - 39)

 

 

2. ALL. God means `all,` except those who turn to Him whom he knows will do that. (He is all knowing) `everyone whose name has not been written...` (Rev. 13: 8)

`he was given authority to continue for 42 months....& he was given authority over every tribe, tongue & nation.`  (Rev. 13: 5 - 7)

 

 

3. Fighting. Prior to becoming the world ruler, the A/C was the King of the North in the Middle East & had many battles there to see who would become the leader of the Islamic Federation. (Dan. 11: 21 - 40) Remember the A/C becomes a regional leader (3 countries) then a National leader till finally international fame & the global rulership. It will be a process of other leaders accepting his deceitful schemes & proving himself.

 

 

4. The Great Army - 200 million. These soldiers will kill 1/3rd of mankind, the people who do not worship the A/C & will not take his mark. Some will hide & escape but millions will die. This is not a war as you thought with the A/C against countries who don`t support his agenda, for the whole world goes after the A/C. This is the extermination of individual people throughout the whole world who do not take the mark.

 

`He was granted power.....& cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed....& no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark .....` (Rev. 13: 15 - 17)

 

 

Thus to me it is quite clear from God`s word that the anti-Christ becomes the Ruler of the Final Gentile Global Government. he rules the whole world as did the other world rulers that God named, but is given only a short time. Even though the whole world (countries, world system) goes after the A/C & worships him there will be many, many individuals who will not.

 

 

Hope that is helpful, Spock. Your sis in Christ, Marilyn.

[ARGOSY]

Hey fellow seekers,

 

I would love your feedback regarding this question.  Will the final beast kingdom, I suppose ruled by antichrist, be GLOBAL, meaning world wide?

 

 

 

 

Hi Spock,

 

I believe its not global. Rev 13 says the beast resembles the leopard. From Daniel 7 the leopard is Alexander's kingdom which is a Middle Eastern and Greek Empire, spread from Greece to Turkey, to Afghanistan to Libya, but not including Lebanon and Saudi.  Obviously Iraq and Iran are included (feet of a bear, mouth of a lion). 

 

This is confirmed in Daniel 11, where we see Moab, Edom, Ammon (Lebanon and Saudi) are excluded from the antichrist's control. 

[other one]

Hey fellow seekers,

 

I would love your feedback regarding this question.  Will the final beast kingdom, I suppose ruled by antichrist, be GLOBAL, meaning world wide?

 

Rev 13:7 seems to indicate it will, but I don't see it based on the whole of scripture. Here is Rev 13:7:

 

7 The beast was permitted to go to war against the saints and conquer them. He was given ruling authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation,

8 and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed.

 

One obvious reason I don't see it is because it seems the final beast kingdom is always fighting some battle with some country/countries. Thus, how could this rule be global if so many nations are opposed? The book of Daniel describes battles being fought by the AC against the king of the North, and I believe the King of the West too. Again, does this sound like global rule?

 

It sounds more like global rule over ONE continent maybe - Europe.  Thus, this seems to support a Revived Roman Empire which is mostly Europe.  (However, I don't want to go there for now. I'd rather stick to the one question - is the final beast empire global?)

 

In addition, even from the book of Rev, in chapter 9, you have the 6th trumpet in which the angel releases the 4 angels at the Euphrates River, allowing 200,000,000 soldiers to come on down.  It seems they are coming from ASIA and are not coming to sing kumbaya with the antichrist. A third of mankind is killed in this which I presume is another war involving the AC and countries who don't support his agenda.  Here is that portion of scripture for your benefit.

 

The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the four horns of the golden altar that is before God. 14It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number.

 

Conclusion: This definitely does not look global even though Rev 13 says "all" the people will bow down......  I know for a fact, all doesn't always mean all in the Bible. At least where all=every single person on the planet.

 

Ok, I'd love your thoughts on this. Thanks.

 

Spock waiting eagerly for some feedback

Rev 13:6-9

7 And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. 8 And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

NASB

 

 

All appears to me that all includes everyone except those who are in the book of life.....   Even then it goes on to say that many of us who are in the book of life will die at the hands of the Beast.

Whether or not the beast will control all countries is a different question.  When you throw in the entirety of scripture it gets complicated.

Best is to prepare mentally and spiritually to loose your head standing up for Christ and see where God sends you from that point.    Once you resolve yourself to that, not much can really scare you...