Cross Reference Posted June 17, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) i just can't go along with a works based salvation as I do believe as Jesus says that one must be born again. Works don't save people, saved people do good works...... and I personally know multiple people who made that decision to follow Jesus and died the next day...... no time to do anything. It is very disappointing that you should think I am speaking of "works Salvation", when I have not even alluded to "works" at all __ unless being sincere is a "works". I strongly suspect that is your problem. "I personally know multiple people who made that decision to follow Jesus and died the next day...... no time to do anything." So why the need for a new birth? Believe and 'confess', right? You words, not mine. OMT: I know of many who have gone to church all their lives and you wouldn't know it by their conversation [way of life]. Edited June 17, 2014 by Cross Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 17, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,115 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,845 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted June 17, 2014 i just can't go along with a works based salvation as I do believe as Jesus says that one must be born again. Works don't save people, saved people do good works...... and I personally know multiple people who made that decision to follow Jesus and died the next day...... no time to do anything. It is very disappointing that you should think I am speaking of "works Salvation", when I have not even alluded to "works" at all __ unless being sincere is a "works". I strongly suspect that is your problem. "I personally know multiple people who made that decision to follow Jesus and died the next day...... no time to do anything." So why the need for a new birth? Believe and 'confess', right? You words, not mine. OMT: I know of many who have gone to church all their lives and you wouldn't know it by their conversation [way of life]. so do I and they have not let/made Jesus be the Lord of their life and when they said they had, they lied..... simple as that..... and again I say that if you are born again, you are not saved.. Born again or saved people live a life that Jesus would approve....... but leading a life that Jesus would approve would not necessarily save or make one born again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 17, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) i just can't go along with a works based salvation as I do believe as Jesus says that one must be born again. Works don't save people, saved people do good works...... and I personally know multiple people who made that decision to follow Jesus and died the next day...... no time to do anything. It is very disappointing that you should think I am speaking of "works Salvation", when I have not even alluded to "works" at all __ unless being sincere is a "works". I strongly suspect that is your problem. "I personally know multiple people who made that decision to follow Jesus and died the next day...... no time to do anything." So why the need for a new birth? Believe and 'confess', right? You words, not mine. OMT: I know of many who have gone to church all their lives and you wouldn't know it by their conversation [way of life]. so do I and they have not let/made Jesus be the Lord of their life and when they said they had, they lied..... simple as that..... and again I say that if you are born again, you are not saved.. Born again or saved people live a life that Jesus would approve....... but leading a life that Jesus would approve would not necessarily save or make one born again. Simple as that?? Really?? No backsliders in that mix? Both Christians you mention are capable of deserting God just as Demas deserted Paul. One would pay a greater penalty for doing so. What to venture a guess which one? So what is the sustaining substance absent from their lives Jesus possessed when He entered His wilderness experience and can it be no less that we persevere? Without it we see church failing right along with society. There is little difference any longer between them. " but leading a life that Jesus would approve would not necessarily save or make one born again." If it was about staying out of hell, I might agree. But, it isn't. For salvation, I chose. For the new birth, Jesus chooses. How I know He chooses? There is a reciprocal. Edited June 17, 2014 by Cross Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 17, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,115 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,845 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted June 17, 2014 I know it seems like I'm picking on you and I'm really not........ but I'll just leave you with this thought...... you re making the whole Gospel way way too complicated.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 17, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) I know it seems like I'm picking on you and I'm really not........ but I'll just leave you with this thought...... you re making the whole Gospel way way too complicated.... You can pick. I can take it until you pick without knowledge. If it seems too difficult, try believing your doctrine makes it too easy. Also try shifting gears to make it about the gospel of the Kingdom of God. I am not interested in the gospel of salvation. Understanding salvation iis incidental. I think I may have mentioned that. Review post 25. Edited June 17, 2014 by Cross Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 18, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,115 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,845 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted June 18, 2014 I know it seems like I'm picking on you and I'm really not........ but I'll just leave you with this thought...... you re making the whole Gospel way way too complicated.... You can pick. I can take it until you pick without knowledge. If it seems too difficult, try believing your doctrine makes it too easy. Also try shifting gears to make it about the gospel of the Kingdom of God. I am not interested in the gospel of salvation. Understanding salvation iis incidental. I think I may have mentioned that. Review post 25. so are you saying that a saved person can't be part of the Kingdom of God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 18, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) I know it seems like I'm picking on you and I'm really not........ but I'll just leave you with this thought...... you re making the whole Gospel way way too complicated.... You can pick. I can take it until you pick without knowledge. If it seems too difficult, try believing your doctrine makes it too easy. Also try shifting gears to make it about the gospel of the Kingdom of God. I am not interested in the gospel of salvation. Understanding salvation iis incidental. I think I may have mentioned that. Review post 25. so are you saying that a saved person can't be part of the Kingdom of God? No. I am not saying he can't be however, in the immediate, I don't see how he could be except in the foreknowledge of God. Consider when one is born again he/she becomes an individual "Bethlehem" for the very life of God that conceived Jesus. Realizing and willing to take responsibility for such a thing is what separates out those who 'become' and those who don't. For that reason alone I don't believe I was ever born again until much later in my life after having "given my heart to the Lord" at 9yrs of age. Edited June 18, 2014 by Cross Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 18, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,115 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,845 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted June 18, 2014 but it's not your goodness that makes you acceptable to the Father, it's Jesus's. One doesn't have to be totally sanctified to be acceptable to the Father..... and further, letting Jesus into your heart may or may not be the same as him becoming your Lord depending on what you mean by "letting him into your heart". Letting him into your heart is one thing, letting him control it is another, and in my world you are not saved until you let him take over. In this discussion I guess I would say that you are "born again" when you let him take over...... and God knows when it's real and when it's not, and the rest of us seeing it in your life really doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Reference Posted June 18, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/12/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) but it's not your goodness that makes you acceptable to the Father, it's Jesus's. One doesn't have to be totally sanctified to be acceptable to the Father..... and further, letting Jesus into your heart may or may not be the same as him becoming your Lord depending on what you mean by "letting him into your heart". Letting him into your heart is one thing, letting him control it is another, and in my world you are not saved until you let him take over. In this discussion I guess I would say that you are "born again" when you let him take over...... and God knows when it's real and when it's not, and the rest of us seeing it in your life really doesn't matter. Either don't "get it" or you don't won't to "get it". Let me try OMT: Consider when one is born again he/she becomes an individual "Bethlehem" for the very life of God that conceived Jesus. Realizing and willing to take responsibility for such a thing is what separates out those who 'become' and those who don't. For that reason alone I don't believe I was ever born again until much later in my life after having "given my heart to the Lord" at 9yrs of age. Edited June 18, 2014 by Cross Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted June 18, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,816 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2014 Blessings Everyone I heard an excellent sermon this morning & I believe it is very relevant to our discussion,it was about the difference between what happens at that moment of "accepting Jesus into ones heart" I would agree that the the sinners prayer at the alter is what makes a person born again, but it is the start..... most people who quote some sinners prayer talk about Jesus coming into their heart, but people really don't want to define what that means If that means that they have committed to Jesus being their Lord, I would say they are saved and born again.... assuming they are not lying. posted by other one Many come to the foot of the cross & recite the "sinners prayer" PROCLAIMING Jesus as their Lord & Savior,which as other one has pointed out is what is the requirement for Salvation as we see in Pauls letters to the church at Rome & as he stated above this is only the beginning Today I heard the difference between "proclaiming" & "explaining".....which comes as we are transformed to be disciples ......as we grow we begin to bear the fruit that explains Christs Lordship rather than the initial proclamation King James Bible Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should REMAIN: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. John 15:16 In this discussion I guess I would say that you are "born again" when you let him take over...... and God knows when it's real and when it's not, posted by other one Realizing and willing to take responsibility for such a thing is what separates out those who 'become' and those who don't posted by Cross Reference The process of being transformed into a New Creature in Christ Jesus seems to lie upon "willingness" & complete submission to His Lordship....that comittment does not always occur at the moment of Salvation With love-in Christ,Kwik Which also reminds me that many are called but few are chosen.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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