The Gifts of the Holy Spirit

[GoldenEagle]

I think the confusion lies in speaking in tongues in a church/gathering settings, then getting an interpretation,  with tongues in private prayer life.  Some believe that speaking in tongues, (not in a church setting), is evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.  I really do not know if tongues are the 'evidence' of it, but do know that tongues are for two reasons.  Apostle Paul I 'thought' was talking to the Chorintians about tongues becuase in the church they were going on and on, like almost showing off there spirituality becuase they could pray in tongues, in which he said wasnt good for unbelievers walking in, they would only think they were out of their mind.  Just my three cents on the issue of course.  I maybe wrong about them trying to show off.  Which could make sense tho especially if they felt the need to make up for the lack of their spirituality as he states about their communion practices. - I am not pointing the finger or judging the Corinthians back then, claiming to think I am perfect.  (ya right.) 

 

Interesting thoughts. Perhaps too the Believing Corinthians were mimicking other pagan religions and speaking gibberish to immitate pagan rituals of spirituality? The oracles throughout Ancient Greece were known for this.

 

Also Corinth was a trade city in an ideal location that allowed it to have two seaports, one on the Saronic Gulf and one on the Corinthian Gulf. As a result, the city was one of the wealthiest cities in Ancient Greece. The Corinthians developed their own coins and required that traders use them when in their city. This also meant a lot of different cultures intermingled in Corinth.

 

God bless,

GE

 

[GoldenEagle]

 

What do you mean by power gifts?

Do you believe that all spiritual gifts (Gifts of the Holy Spirit) are only for leaders?

Interesting. What Scripture points to this idea?

 

I apologize for the delay!

 

Those are what I call the 9 spiritual gifts listed in 1 Cor 12.

 

IMO, pretty much everyone in the NT churches had the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

And all of the leaders definitely had it.

Smith Wigglesworth said,

"If you don't have the baptism with the Holy Spirit,

you are living in a weak and impoverished condition."

And this is indeed the condition of most churches today!

 

Also IMO, no one receives any of the 9 spiritual power gifts (to any appreciable extent)

without having the baptism with the Holy Spirit first.

Note: the gift of faith in 1 Cor 12 has absolutely nothing to do with Eph 2:8-9, etc.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. I think I understand your perspective better.

So are you saying the other two passages in Eph 4 and Rom 12 don't really apply to speaking in tongues?

 

Eph 4:11-13, Rom. 12:3-8, 1 Cor 12:7-11, 27:31

God bless,

GE

[Osterloh]

Thanks for the clarification. I think I understand your perspective better.

So are you saying the other two passages in Eph 4 and Rom 12 don't really apply to speaking in tongues?

Eph 4:11-13, Rom. 12:3-8, 1 Cor 12:7-11, 27:31

 

Ephesians 4:11-13 ... all of those in the NT 5-fold ministry had the Spirit baptism (with initial confirmation of tongues).

Romans 12:3-8 ... tongues is but 1 of the 9 spiritual power gifts listed in 1 Cor 12

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 ... tongues is but 1 of the 9 spiritual power gifts

1 Corinthians 12:27-31... tongues is but 1 of the 9 spiritual power gifts listed in 1 Cor 12

Hope this helps!

Edited July 24, 2014 by Osterloh

[GoldenEagle]

 

Thanks for the clarification. I think I understand your perspective better.

So are you saying the other two passages in Eph 4 and Rom 12 don't really apply to speaking in tongues?

Eph 4:11-13, Rom. 12:3-8, 1 Cor 12:7-11, 27:31

 

Ephesians 4:11-13 ... all of those in the NT 5-fold ministry had the Spirit baptism (with initial confirmation of tongues).

Romans 12:3-8 ... tongues is but 1 of the 9 spiritual power gifts listed in 1 Cor 12

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 ... tongues is but 1 of the 9 spiritual power gifts

1 Corinthians 12:27-31... tongues is but 1 of the 9 spiritual power gifts listed in 1 Cor 12

Hope this helps!

 

 

I see. Well, I'll have to disagree that all Believers must have the innitial confirmation of the gift of tongues. Not everyone is a mouth or an eye.

 

 

 

So you believe all Born Again Christians (BAC?) must have the evidence of the Holy Spirit

which you believe is speaking in tongues? How do you justify this according to Scripture?

 

No, no, sorry for the misunderstanding!

BACs have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them (many ref.).

But, Jesus chooses some BACs to be anointed with the Holy Spirit for special tasks,

and He sends the Spirit to rest "upon" these BACs (similar to His coming upon the prophets in the OT).

This is called the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

The evidence to the church that this has happened to someone is a few (or many) tongues.

(Beyond that, tongues is just 1 of the 9 spiritual power gifts.)

 

Ah I see. I think I missed this post. I'm still confused though.

Please provide Scriptural backing for these thoughts and statements. Particularly what you said in bold.

So all Believers are to first speak in tongues in order to show that they recieved the Holy Spirit?

God bless,

GE

[Willa]

Note that the gifts of PEOPLE are usually referred to as Christ's gifts to the church.  The gifts of power to accomplish a ministry are referred to as gifts of the Holy Spirit.  2 separate persons of the Trinity.  

 

I have to disagree that tongues must be given first before other gifts.  This did occur in several places in the Bible like Acts 2:4 and at the house of Cornelius.  But some of our great evangelists have not spoken in tongues--like Billy Graham.  In Acts 4:31 they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the Word of God with boldness.

 

I doubt that these people were mimicking other religions or Paul would not have called them gifts of the Holy Spirit but would reveal them as of other spirits.  However, the Corinthians were known to be both babes and carnal, and had not yet learned to crucify the flesh or deny self.  

 

Paul claimed that he himself spoke in tongues more than all of them 1 Cor 14:18,  So he did find it beneficial to build himself up during his many trials.  But in v. 5 he wished that they all spoke in tongues.  This clearly shows that all did not speak in tongues.  Moreover, he did not encourage people to speak in tongues in church.in verses 19 and 23.   In v. 14 he calls praying in tongues the same thing as praying in the spirit.  in Eph. 6:18 he encourages all to be --praying at all times with all supplication IN THE SPIRIT --when interceding for others.   Jude 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, -- The practice is deemed the least of the gifts purely because they do not benefit others.  God don't make no junk.  

 

God has most often given me a gift of wisdom in how to answer peoples' questions, such as in small group Bible studies.  Also He gave me instantaneous unlearned wisdom in making decisions on a missions board for 10 years.  This is the only gift I specifically prayed for, as well,  But He has used me momentarily in most of the gifts of the Spirit when the need arose over the last 44 years.  As for different ministries, while I had taught girls sunday school classes for many years, I have not ever been used in administration, as an apostle/missionary (sent out one), as a worker of miracles, and rarely in healing, tongues or interpretation. or in helps of practical service even though I make a great go-fer.  

 

Most people who rely on God to do the work of the church are inspired and invigorated by the work God does.  Those who rely on their own strength to do Gods work often burn out or quit, and are rarely very effective.  

 

[Osterloh]

GoldenEagle ...

 

The baptism with the Holy Spirit is an anointing given by Jesus to certain Christians.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with being born-again,

except being born-again it a prerequisite to receiving this baptism.

However, many do receive both simultaneously.

 

Tongues are the initial evidence (to others there) that the person has indeed received.

 

But, beyond that, tongues is merely 1 of the 9 spiritual power gifts listed in 1 Cor 12.

No one has all 9, but I sat under a pastor and his wife (for 5 years) who between them had all 9.

 

As far as Scripture goes, this is like several other spiritual Truths,

which are "somewhat hidden" in Scripture (for various reasons).

However, I can lay out this baptism for you scripturally, if you wish.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Osterloh

[OneLight]

The following is what I believe about the verses.

• 1 Corinthians 12:27-31, and Ephesians 4:11-13, describes the offices, callings or positions set up within the body.
• 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 describes the gifts given to the body by the Holy Spirit, empowering them to do the will of God.
• Romans 12:3-8 describes how people should move/operate within the works or ministries a believer is given the body.

[Osterloh]

• 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 describes the gifts given to the body by the Holy Spirit, empowering them to do the will of God.

 

Are there not many more gifts (than these) given by the Holy Spirit to believers to do God's will?

These 9 are the especially powerful spiritual gifts, IMO primarily to be used by the 5-fold ministry.

[OneLight]

• 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 describes the gifts given to the body by the Holy Spirit, empowering them to do the will of God.

 

Are there not many more gifts (than these) given by the Holy Spirit to believers to do God's will?

These 9 are the especially powerful spiritual gifts, IMO primarily to be used by the 5-fold ministry.

Some mix the offices in with the gifts, such as Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Preacher and Teacher, but I do not. What others do you feel are gifts?

[Joshua-777]

I think it's interesting that Paul separates gifts from the manifestation of the Spirit.

Now, the beginning of 1 Cor 12 the word gifts is in italics. The reason why is because that word isn't in the Greek but added there to make sense of the chapter.

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:

Also, you see the same thing two chapters later. Paul refers to the spiritual but the word gifts isn't originally there.

1 Corinthians 14:1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

The word spiritual is Pneumotikos which means simply means supernatural. Now concerning the supernatural stuff...

Paul does mention gifts a few verses down though.

1 Corinthians 12:4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.  5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.  6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.  7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 

Notice how it says gifts, ministries, and activities and separates them from the manifestation of the spirit. this passage makes it clear that there is a difference between gift/and manifestation of the Spirit.

So what is the manifestation of the Holy Spirit? It is different ways the Holy Spirit moves and operates, if He speaks to you, through you, etc. Thats prophecy, word of knowledge, or word of wisdom, If He wants to change something in the physical, healing, miracles, etc. If He wants to show you what's going on in the Spiritual realm,  discerning of Spirits.

There are gifts mentioned at the bottom of the chapter, but check this out.

1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles?  30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?  31 But earnestly desire the best[d] gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

Notice how it refers to gifts as apostles, prophets, teachers, miracles, etc. It mixes in the service gifts. The reason why is the gift is not the specific manifestation happening but you being enabled to serve the body in a specific way. Some have a gift of healing for the purpose of ministry, that is how they serve the body while others still can lay hands on the sick and see them recover because they have the Holy Spirit. That also helps take away identity from the gifts and puts it on service.

For me, a lot of the manifestations of the Spirit flow together at different times. I do a lot of street ministry that's dependent on Holy Spirit to show up. Sometimes I'll get a word of knowledge or a prophetic word, sometimes I'll pray for healing and healing will break out, sometimes I'll sense an angel and the person will experience and angel

For example, one time my friends and I were at the park and came across some Mormons. I prayed for one of their shoulders to be healed like four times and nothing happened, then they started saying it's because they didn't believe the same way we did, thats when we realized they were mormons. I started talking to one of the guys and got some words for him that really encouraged him and showed him how much God knew him. He had a knee injury so we prayed a few times. Right when his friends started mocking us, he was healed and was freaking out as we shared the reality of Jesus with him. Right after that, we came across four kids that were believers already. We started unloading prophetic words over them that they affirmed were accurate and we started praying for them to experience God;s presence. I sensed an angel ministering with us so I asked for him to give one of the kids a hug. He felt arms of heat around him, another kid felt heat on his chest. Then I prayed for one of the guys to be overwhelmed by God;s love and he almost fell out. Right after that, we came across two girls, same thing. We got some words over them and encouraged them and prayed for an angel to touch her and she experienced a warmth in her heart.

Later on that night we came across some kids boxing in the mall parking lot and they had a crowd around them. I ran up and one of the kids lost his breath. He let me pray but they didn't want it on video camera. All the stuff mentioned before this was caught on film. I prayed and he got his breath back and said his tongue was tingling, then a girl asked if I could pray for her feet and her feet were healed, then another girl just wanted prayer to be blessed because she saw God was moving. God rocked all of them with his love.

Now as far as gifts, right now I'm functioning as an evangelist, not just going to the streets and winning the lost but also training and equipping the body to be witnesses every where they go. I've been blessed to partner with a handful of Churches that are passionate about spreading the Kingdom of God and I've been able to teach and also take teams to the streets for hands on training.

Ephesians 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,  12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,


I also don''t believe the manifestions are primarily for the fivefold but for the body of Christ. Every believer can walk in the manifestations of the Spirit.