Endtime Layout

[ENOCH2010]

But the pre-trib rapture don't fit into the last 3 1/2 years

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

 

I focus on just the last 3.5 years, because the NT has no mention of an earlier  "peace treaty" and Daniel 9:27 can be interpreted in many ways:

 

AOD setup --------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------Second coming/gathering of the elect  (Matthew 24)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of the antichrist  (Dan 9:27)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of antichrist/resurrection (Dan 11:45-dan 12)

Witnesses Preach------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------7th trumpet/last trumpet  (Rev11)   

Fullness of the (gospel to the) Nations-------period  of Jewish openness------------- (Romans 11:25)

Success of the gospel/Satan falls)-------------3.5 years of Jewish protection---------- Rev 12

Satan falls to earth (great tribulation)---------3.5 years of Christian persecution----- Rev 12

 

Beast comes to power----------------------------3.5 years of Christian persecution-------Rev 13

Beast comes to power ---------------------------3.5 years of the beasts rule--------------Rev 13

Antichrist comes to power -----------------------3.5 years of saint persecution------------God/saints rule earth  (Dan 7)

 

Since you appear to include a short period "of Jewish openness" during that 3.5 years of the tribulation, does that mean you believe some of the Jews that are not 'sealed' with God's seal, other than the 144,000 will repent and believe on Jesus just prior to His appearing?

 

I have that hope too, but I don't believe it will happen, because God has a purpose why only 144,000 of Israel are sealed in that time.

 

 

I'm sure there are a special group of 144 000 that will receive salvation late in the tribulation. But I believe many other Jews will be saved during the tribulation.

 

I relate the openness of Jews to the "fullness of the nations"... meaning the gospel has reached its international target and can then be focussed on the Jews again. This is the same moment as the "victory of the church" as described in Rev 12, when the church overcomes Satan through our testimony and the blood of the lamb. This is when Satan comes crashing down to earth in anger, but yet Israel is protected during that final phase.  So we have a protection period which overlaps an openness period for the Jews. So even under the rule of the antichrist, Jews will have their blessing until the death of the two (Jewish?) witnesses and the attack of Armageddon ends the 3.5 years of protection of Israel.

 

I have an apple and I wish to divide in into two halves, I take a knife and cut it in two and I have two approximate halves. (I could do the same with a pie.) what I have left is TWO HALVES.

 

Now, I challenge anyone to attempt to cut an apple in half if half is all one has. One would end up with quarters not halves. It is the abomination that divides the week. This abomination will take place in Rev. 11.  How could the man of sin abominate and cut a week into two halves if half a week is all there is left? It is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Therefore, all the entire 70th week is still future. When the abomination takes place, the first half of the week will be the 42 months just before the abomination. In Revelation that would be the events of chapters 8-10 and in chapter 11 up to the 7th trumpet. The Trumpet judgments come in the first half of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

I don't understand your point. The abomination appears before the start of the great tribulation, the last 3.5 years. all the 3.5 year periods mentioned in Daniel 7, Daniel 12, Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13 ALL fit easily into the final great tribulation.

 

It is very simple: get an apple, and cut it in half. The knife you use to cut it represents the abomination. Throw one half away, or eat and and save the other half for tomorrow. Imagine tomorrow is 2000 years later. Now take the half of an apple left and try to divide in in half and still end up with a half.  Remember,  the abomination DIVIDES the week into two halves. Therefore at the time of the abomination, there must be an entire week to be divided, so as to end up with 42 months, and 1260 days.

 

If you say the first half was finished in 32 AD, then it would be 2000 years dividing the week, NOT the abomination.

 

Yes, I agree, all the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, given in days, months and years all are for the last half of the week. But the first half must be there to make a whole to be divided by the abomination.  And that is EXACTLY what the book of Revelation shows us. The abomination takes place in chapter 11. What events PRECEDE chapter 11? Of course the trumpet judgements. They will take place in the FIRST HALF of the week.

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

But the pre-trib rapture don't fit into the last 3 1/2 years

Exactly: it will come before the entire week begins!

 

LAMAD

[ARGOSY]

It is very simple: get an apple, and cut it in half. The knife you use to cut it represents the abomination. Throw one half away, or eat and and save the other half for tomorrow. Imagine tomorrow is 2000 years later. Now take the half of an apple left and try to divide in in half and still end up with a half.  Remember,  the abomination DIVIDES the week into two halves. Therefore at the time of the abomination, there must be an entire week to divided, so as to end up with 42 months, and 1260 days.

 

If you say the first half was finished in 32 AD, then it would be 2000 years dividing the week, NOT the abomination.

 

Yes, I agree, all the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, given in days, months and years all are for the last half of the week. But the first half must be there to make a whole to be divided by the abomination.  And that is EXACTLY what the book of Revelation shows us. The abomination takes place in chapter 11. What events PRECEDE chapter 11? Of course the trumpet judgements. They will take place in the FIRST HALF of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

The bible does not say that the antichrist splits any period in half.   This is just an assumption coming from the standard dispensationalist interpretation of Daniel 9:27

[Salty]

I have an apple and I wish to divide in into two halves, I take a knife and cut it in two and I have two approximate halves. (I could do the same with a pie.) what I have left is TWO HALVES.

 

Now, I challenge anyone to attempt to cut an apple in half if half is all one has. One would end up with quarters not halves. It is the abomination that divides the week. This abomination will take place in Rev. 11.  How could the man of sin abominate and cut a week into two halves if half a week is all there is left? It is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Therefore, all the entire 70th week is still future. When the abomination takes place, the first half of the week will be the 42 months just before the abomination. In Revelation that would be the events of chapters 8-10 and in chapter 11 up to the 7th trumpet. The Trumpet judgments come in the first half of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

Your apple logic doesn't work with the Daniel-Revelation prophecy, mainly because what you're saying does not align with either Book.

 

Rev.10 declares when the 7th angel begins to sound, what God gave His OT prophets to write will be finished. So how can there be another 3.5 years after the 7th Trumpet? Cannot be, not if one keeps to what is actually written in God's Word.

[iamlamad]

 

I have an apple and I wish to divide in into two halves, I take a knife and cut it in two and I have two approximate halves. (I could do the same with a pie.) what I have left is TWO HALVES.

 

Now, I challenge anyone to attempt to cut an apple in half if half is all one has. One would end up with quarters not halves. It is the abomination that divides the week. This abomination will take place in Rev. 11.  How could the man of sin abominate and cut a week into two halves if half a week is all there is left? It is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Therefore, all the entire 70th week is still future. When the abomination takes place, the first half of the week will be the 42 months just before the abomination. In Revelation that would be the events of chapters 8-10 and in chapter 11 up to the 7th trumpet. The Trumpet judgments come in the first half of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

Your apple logic doesn't work with the Daniel-Revelation prophecy, mainly because what you're saying does not align with either Book.

 

Rev.10 declares when the 7th angel begins to sound, what God gave His OT prophets to write will be finished. So how can there be another 3.5 years after the 7th Trumpet? Cannot be, not if one keeps to what is actually written in God's Word.

 

It is not my problem of you cannot understand what is written. It is a MYTH that the 7th trumpet is at the end. It is in chapter 11. That means, 10 chapters were written before it, and and 11 chapters after it. Do you imagine God was confused as how to write history in advance? Do you imagine John was just playing with numbers for sequencing? When you learn that what is written in one chapter will happen in real life AFTER what is written in previous chapters, and what is written in later chapters will ALWAYS happen AFTER previous chapters (with minor exceptions for parenthesis) in the book of Revelation, you will then be on your way to understanding this book. If you think you need to rearrange (as the 7th trumpet being the "end") you are still confused.

 

ALWAYS REMEMBER:

 

AXIOM on Revelation:

 

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology, is immediately suspect and WILL be proven wrong.

 

By the way, have you TRIED to cut an apple in half, throw away one half (or eat it) then try to cut it in half again and end up still with one half? It is simply impossible. John shows us TWO HALVES of the week in Revelation.

 

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

 

It is very simple: get an apple, and cut it in half. The knife you use to cut it represents the abomination. Throw one half away, or eat and and save the other half for tomorrow. Imagine tomorrow is 2000 years later. Now take the half of an apple left and try to divide in in half and still end up with a half.  Remember,  the abomination DIVIDES the week into two halves. Therefore at the time of the abomination, there must be an entire week to divided, so as to end up with 42 months, and 1260 days.

 

If you say the first half was finished in 32 AD, then it would be 2000 years dividing the week, NOT the abomination.

 

Yes, I agree, all the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, given in days, months and years all are for the last half of the week. But the first half must be there to make a whole to be divided by the abomination.  And that is EXACTLY what the book of Revelation shows us. The abomination takes place in chapter 11. What events PRECEDE chapter 11? Of course the trumpet judgements. They will take place in the FIRST HALF of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

The bible does not say that the antichrist splits any period in half.   This is just an assumption coming from the standard dispensationalist interpretation of Daniel 9:27

 

Did you look up the Hebrew word that was translated as "midst" and see what it means? It means to divide in half.

 

 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

 

This speaks of a "week" which we know to be a week of years, or 7 years. Daniel tells us that in the exact middle of the week (the week divided in half) someone will cause the sacrifices to cease. This event then will come at the exact middle of the 7 years, and this is proven 7 times in scripture as both Daniel and John speak the last half of this week.

 

So the bible CERTAINLY tells us the week will be divided. Read it again; it is right there.

 

LAMAD

[Salty]

It is not my problem of you cannot understand what is written. It is a MYTH that the 7th trumpet is at the end. It is in chapter 11. That means, 10 chapters were written before it, and and 11 chapters after it. Do you imagine God was confused as how to write history in advance? Do you imagine John was just playing with numbers for sequencing? When you learn that what is written in one chapter will happen in real life AFTER what is written in previous chapters, and what is written in later chapters will ALWAYS happen AFTER previous chapters (with minor exceptions for parenthesis) in the book of Revelation, you will then be on your way to understanding this book. If you think you need to rearrange (as the 7th trumpet being the "end") you are still confused.

 

Your apple logic doesn't work with the Daniel-Revelation prophecy, mainly because what you're saying does not align with either Book.

 

Rev.10 declares when the 7th angel begins to sound, what God gave His OT prophets to write will be finished. So how can there be another 3.5 years after the 7th Trumpet? Cannot be, not if one keeps to what is actually written in God's Word.

 

 

ALWAYS REMEMBER:

 

AXIOM on Revelation:

 

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology, is immediately suspect and WILL be proven wrong.

 

By the way, have you TRIED to cut an apple in half, throw away one half (or eat it) then try to cut it in half again and end up still with one half? It is simply impossible. John shows us TWO HALVES of the week in Revelation.

 

 

LAMAD

 

 

I have no problem reading and understanding these Scriptures as written:

 

 

Rev.10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.

 

Rev.11

¹⁴ The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

¹⁵ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

 

The doctrine you're following that adds 3.5 years of tribulation after that 7th trumpet does not align with God's Word.

[ARGOSY]

 

 

It is very simple: get an apple, and cut it in half. The knife you use to cut it represents the abomination. Throw one half away, or eat and and save the other half for tomorrow. Imagine tomorrow is 2000 years later. Now take the half of an apple left and try to divide in in half and still end up with a half.  Remember,  the abomination DIVIDES the week into two halves. Therefore at the time of the abomination, there must be an entire week to divided, so as to end up with 42 months, and 1260 days.

 

If you say the first half was finished in 32 AD, then it would be 2000 years dividing the week, NOT the abomination.

 

Yes, I agree, all the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, given in days, months and years all are for the last half of the week. But the first half must be there to make a whole to be divided by the abomination.  And that is EXACTLY what the book of Revelation shows us. The abomination takes place in chapter 11. What events PRECEDE chapter 11? Of course the trumpet judgements. They will take place in the FIRST HALF of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

The bible does not say that the antichrist splits any period in half.   This is just an assumption coming from the standard dispensationalist interpretation of Daniel 9:27

 

Did you look up the Hebrew word that was translated as "midst" and see what it means? It means to divide in half.

 

 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

 

This speaks of a "week" which we know to be a week of years, or 7 years. Daniel tells us that in the exact middle of the week (the week divided in half) someone will cause the sacrifices to cease. This event then will come at the exact middle of the 7 years, and this is proven 7 times in scripture as both Daniel and John speak the last half of this week.

 

So the bible CERTAINLY tells us the week will be divided. Read it again; it is right there.

 

LAMAD

 

 

 

Yes the week is divided that's for sure. But does the antichrist divide the week?  MOST translations have a different person who confirms the covenant from the person who sets up the abomination.  

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

It is very simple: get an apple, and cut it in half. The knife you use to cut it represents the abomination. Throw one half away, or eat and and save the other half for tomorrow. Imagine tomorrow is 2000 years later. Now take the half of an apple left and try to divide in in half and still end up with a half.  Remember,  the abomination DIVIDES the week into two halves. Therefore at the time of the abomination, there must be an entire week to divided, so as to end up with 42 months, and 1260 days.

 

If you say the first half was finished in 32 AD, then it would be 2000 years dividing the week, NOT the abomination.

 

Yes, I agree, all the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, given in days, months and years all are for the last half of the week. But the first half must be there to make a whole to be divided by the abomination.  And that is EXACTLY what the book of Revelation shows us. The abomination takes place in chapter 11. What events PRECEDE chapter 11? Of course the trumpet judgements. They will take place in the FIRST HALF of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

The bible does not say that the antichrist splits any period in half.   This is just an assumption coming from the standard dispensationalist interpretation of Daniel 9:27

 

Did you look up the Hebrew word that was translated as "midst" and see what it means? It means to divide in half.

 

 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

 

This speaks of a "week" which we know to be a week of years, or 7 years. Daniel tells us that in the exact middle of the week (the week divided in half) someone will cause the sacrifices to cease. This event then will come at the exact middle of the 7 years, and this is proven 7 times in scripture as both Daniel and John speak the last half of this week.

 

So the bible CERTAINLY tells us the week will be divided. Read it again; it is right there.

 

LAMAD

 

 

 

Yes the week is divided that's for sure. But does the antichrist divide the week?  MOST translations have a different person who confirms the covenant from the person who sets up the abomination.  

 

I don't think so. It is preconceptions of the readers and the rules for the use of pronouns.  My point was, a week already divided into two halves by the abomination cannot be divided again and end up with halves.

 

LAMAD