Non-OSAS and sleep

[OneLight]

All see is someone trying to ignore the fact that if someone walked away from God, they are no longer under His grace.

 

Waking up one day and walking away from God and then walking back to God vs. believing that one can be unsaved.

 

You can walk away from God one day and then walk back to God the next day, but that doesn't make you unsaved.

Who said they turn back to God. You are assuming that everyone who looses their faith returns. That is a false premise.

[Guest Butero]

No, all sins are not automatically under the blood.

 

For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.  Hebrews 10:26,27

 

Notice that it doesn't say any sins, but those done "willfully."  In the Old Testament, if you committed a trespass by mistake, a sacrifice had to be made and you would be forgiven, but if you sinned presumptuously, you would not be forgiven but cut off from among God's people.  Feel free to look it up.

[OneLight]

Besides waiting for an answer to post #60, can you also tell me what you believe James meant in the following statement?

James 5_19-20

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

[Guest Butero]

The thing is Dscapp, I don't care if you want to avoid going around in circles till our hair falls out.  I don't care about arguing endlessly either.  At the same time, if all you are going to do is say my position is not Biblical, I will just say I stand by what I said and it is Biblical, and we will have gotten nowhere.  It is a complete waste of time.  I have thoroughly studies this topic, and have debated it ever since I joined WB 10 years ago. 

[Wildstar]

I reject the notion that when you get saved, all past, present and future sins are automatically under the blood.  You have to confess your sins to find forgiveness.  If you sin through ignorance, that is under the blood atonement till you recognize your error.  Under the old covenant, it was known as presumptuous sins verses sins through ignorance,  In the NT, it is willful sins verses sins done through ignorance.  If a Christian were to decide to commit adultery, and they planned a place to meet and died in the act, I believe they would go straight to hell.  Their salvation experience in the past would do them no good.  To get right with God, they would have to have opportunity to repent.  At the same time, if they slipped and did something without thinking that was wrong in the sight of God, that would be covered.  When it was revealed to them, they need to repent. 

I can't agree with your statement "all past, present and future sins are automatically under the blood"  Only sacrifice can blot out a sin.  Without his blood there is no forgiveness.  He is not 'forgiving' new sins today.  He forgave them already by his sacrifice.

 

Otherwise OSAS itself is faulty since it's clear that the apostles tried very hard to keep people following Christ correctly so they wouldn't fall away.  

[Wildstar]

 

All see is someone trying to ignore the fact that if someone walked away from God, they are no longer under His grace.

 

Waking up one day and walking away from God and then walking back to God vs. believing that one can be unsaved.

 

You can walk away from God one day and then walk back to God the next day, but that doesn't make you unsaved.

 

What do you constitute as walking away from God?  Sinning?  If so, I agree. 

If walking away from God, is throwing away your faith then no.  I do believe you can become unsaved.  It's blasphemy against the holy spirt.  

[Wildstar]

No, all sins are not automatically under the blood.

 

For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.  Hebrews 10:26,27

 

Notice that it doesn't say any sins, but those done "willfully."  In the Old Testament, if you committed a trespass by mistake, a sacrifice had to be made and you would be forgiven, but if you sinned presumptuously, you would not be forgiven but cut off from among God's people.  Feel free to look it up.

What do you mean not all sins are under the blood?

 

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

He is the atoning sacrifice of the WHOLE WORLD.  John testified all sins were taken away by Christ.  The argument is whether or not someone can become unsaved and you can by leaving the faith.  And you can, by willfully leaving the faith that sanctified you.  

[Guest Butero]

I believe OSAS is faulty.  I reject it.  That is the whole point.  Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is attributing the works of God to the devil.  I do believe you can be saved for a time, and then become unsaved.  Of course it takes the blood to be forgiven of sin.  When we sin willfully, we confess our sins and Jesus' blood washes those new sins away.  We don't go to a priest and sacrifice a lamb.  It is not necessary, as Jesus' one time sacrifice is available to atone for anything we do in the future.  It is just that we have to ask for forgiveness to receive forgiveness.  It is not automatic.  I don't believe that there is this blood line that God can't see past, so we can do anything and get away with it. 

[Guest Butero]

All past sins are under the blood, not all future willful sins.  I would also point out that if Jesus sacrifice is an atonement for the whole world, the whole world would be saved.  It is capable of washing away the sins of the whole world, but God only cleanses those who choose to follow Jesus and continue to follow Jesus. 

[dscapp]

Who said they turn back to God. You are assuming that everyone who looses their faith returns. That is a false premise.

 

OneLight, if they never turn back to God they were never born again to begin with.

 

No, all sins are not automatically under the blood.

 

For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.  Hebrews 10:26,27

 

Notice that it doesn't say any sins, but those done "willfully."  In the Old Testament, if you committed a trespass by mistake, a sacrifice had to be made and you would be forgiven, but if you sinned presumptuously, you would not be forgiven but cut off from among God's people.  Feel free to look it up.

 

And this is what I mean by taking scriptures out of context. Hebrews 10:26-27 is not speaking about born again christians.

 

Besides waiting for an answer to post #60, can you also tell me what you believe James meant in the following statement?

James 5_19-20

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

 

Notice that other translations say, Let him know, that he who converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.