a-seeker Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2014 Well I will be a minority here, but the terms keep and guard are the same used for the Levitical duties in the tabernacle. In fact, WHENEVER these two words appear TOGETHER, they are being used of the priestly duties in the tabernacle. And there it means performing the priestly duties and keeping outsiders from entering the temple. Nu 3.7-8, 8.25-26, 18.5; Ez 44.14. If we are adamant that Scripture interpret Scripture, then it is not eisogesis to allow the rest of Scripture to shed light on this passage and see that Adam and Eve were to protect the garden from the serpent. Now, I do no think the first sin consisted of allowing the serpent to enter the garden, for we are not told where the conversation took place; and even if it took place in the garden, the sin was obviously eating the fruit. By an act of disobedience they failed to guard Eden. The two are not mutually exclusive: they are one and the same. clb You do realize that the priesthood had not been established at the time of Adam, don't you??? As for the conversation, where else do we find Adam and Eve if not within the Garden? Remember, they had not sinned at that point and were about tending the garden. I see no hint in the text that Adam and Eve were prisoners in the garden; I see it was obvious in my post that that was a minor point. As for the priesthood--are you saying that God in His omniscience could not assign roles to Adam and Eve that He would one day assign to the priests of the tabernacle? Are you saying that Moses, under God's direction, could not see a parallel between Man's role in the garden and the priest's role in the tabernacle? clb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, are you aware that angels are not part of creation..... they were already here singing along and shouting as God created the universe... Are "angels" created beings? Are they not a part of the works of God's hands? Did they not rebel against God and were cast down to this earth? Did not Adam have "authority" and "dominion" over all the earth, and over all the works of God's hands? Yes! Man was given dominion over 26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth. 28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply and fill the earth, and subdue it. And have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the heavens, and all animals that move upon the earth. So where exactly do angels, creatures of heaven, fit in with that description? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Hi ayin jade, Just popped In on your conversation to say that angels were created - `On the day that you were created....` (Ez. 28: 13) (referring to Lucifer) They were in the third heaven (1 Cor. 12 : 2) & were created before the universe - which consists of the Celestial (planets, stars etc) & atmospheric (clouds, birds etc) heavens. (Gen. 1: 14 - 18) When Lucifer was cast out of the thronal area (3rd heaven) then he took resident in the `principalities & powers` realm (Col. 1 16). He is known as the `Prince of the power of the air.` (Eph. 2: 2) This is an authority area that is invisible, & will soon be cleansed when Satan (Lucifer) is cast to the earth, limiting his power greatly. (Rev. 12: 9) Edited August 30, 2014 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, how many people have now pointed out to you that you are mistaken in your assertion that Adam had dominion over angels? Are you willing to learn from a host of seasoned believers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, are you aware that angels are not part of creation..... they were already here singing along and shouting as God created the universe... Are "angels" created beings? Are they not a part of the works of God's hands? Did they not rebel against God and were cast down to this earth? Did not Adam have "authority" and "dominion" over all the earth, and over all the works of God's hands? Yes! Nowhere in the Bible did any human being other than Jesus ever exercised authority over angels. So to say that man has authority over angels is going outside of Scripture. Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. What a weak response. Jesus gave temporary authority over demons to His disciples. That does not support your actual argument that mankind has authority over the angelic realm. Sorry but you have pretty much shown that you cannot support your original argument. Man had NO authority over angels and never has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2014 Hi ayin jade, Just popped In on your conversation to say that angels were created - `On the day that you were created....` (Ez. 28: 13) (referring to Lucifer) They were in the third heaven (1 Cor. 12 : 2) & were created before the universe - which consists of the Celestial (planets, stars etc) & atmospheric (clouds, birds etc) heavens. (Gen. 1: 14 - 18) When Lucifer was cast out of the thronal area (3rd heaven) then he took resident in the `principalities & powers` realm (Col. 1 16). He is known as the `Prince of the power of the air.` (Eph. 2: 2) This is an authority area that is invisible, & will soon be cleansed when Satan (Lucifer) is cast to the earth, limiting his power greatly. (Rev. 12: 9) Im well aware that angels are created. My question was in what way do creatures of heaven fall under dominion over the earthly creatures mentioned in the bible verses I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,128 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,857 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2014 Lets make this simple. Did God give unto Adam "Authority" over all the earth, and all the works of his hands? Is Satan and all fallen angels created by the hands of God? Yes The Bible says yes, so why are you disagreeing with God? To what purpose are you doing this? You keep asking that same question and I keep answering it..... no, Angels are not of this earth (world/universe) Angels are/were part of the heavenly realm, not ours. Adam had authority over things of this world, not everything God ever created. God created heaven and the throne and the other things in his realm also...... do you really think Adam had authority over heaven..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, are you aware that angels are not part of creation..... they were already here singing along and shouting as God created the universe... Are "angels" created beings? Are they not a part of the works of God's hands? Did they not rebel against God and were cast down to this earth? Did not Adam have "authority" and "dominion" over all the earth, and over all the works of God's hands? Yes! concerning angels.... no he did not. Curtis, he didn't even know the difference between good and evil... He was given authority over the things on earth that God made here... but the angels were something that came before creation of the universe... and we know little to nothing about that period. Lets make this simple. Did God give unto Adam "Authority" over all the earth, and all the works of his hands? Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Psa 8:6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: Did Adam have "dominion, and authority" over all the earth and all the works of God's hands? Is Satan and all fallen angels created by the hands of God? Yes The Bible says yes, so why are you disagreeing with God? To what purpose are you doing this? Curtis, the Bible is very careful to qualify what it means by "all the works of God's hands." It doesn't mean that man has authority over created beings in the heavenly realms. The context in Psalm 8 has to do with the created order here on earth. We are not given authority over the sun and moon nor the stars. The Bible is using a figure of speech known as hyperbole to make the point that man is given charge over all that God has created here on earth that man is a steward of all that God has made here on earth. You are ignoring the context because you have an unbiblical agenda to spread a false teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted August 30, 2014 God answers this problem succinctly:Heb 1:13-14 13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? KJV Presently they are ministering spirits to the saved... we do not tell them how to minister to us but God sending to minister as He Wills! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, are you aware that angels are not part of creation..... they were already here singing along and shouting as God created the universe... Are "angels" created beings? Are they not a part of the works of God's hands? Did they not rebel against God and were cast down to this earth? Did not Adam have "authority" and "dominion" over all the earth, and over all the works of God's hands? Yes! concerning angels.... no he did not. Curtis, he didn't even know the difference between good and evil... He was given authority over the things on earth that God made here... but the angels were something that came before creation of the universe... and we know little to nothing about that period. Lets make this simple. Did God give unto Adam "Authority" over all the earth, and all the works of his hands? Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Psa 8:6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: Did Adam have "dominion, and authority" over all the earth and all the works of God's hands? Is Satan and all fallen angels created by the hands of God? Yes The Bible says yes, so why are you disagreeing with God? To what purpose are you doing this? Curtis, the Bible is very careful to qualify what it means by "all the works of God's hands." It doesn't mean that man has authority over created beings in the heavenly realms. The context in Psalm 8 has to do with the created order here on earth. We are not given authority over the sun and moon nor the stars. The Bible is using a figure of speech known as hyperbole to make the point that man is given charge over all that God has created here on earth that man is a steward of all that God has made here on earth. You are ignoring the context because you have an unbiblical agenda to spread a false teaching. Does the Church today have "authority" over all demonic evil spirits (fallen angels)? Luke 10:19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. Luke 10:20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." 1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Mark 6:7 . . . Calling the Twelve to him, he sent them out two by two and gave them authority over evil spirits. Luke 10:17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.” If the Church today has this authority over all fallen angels, demonic spirits, then Adam also had the same "authority" since Jesus (the last Adam) coming to earth restored back to man what the first Adam lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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