Ghosts, demons, and Christians perspective

[He giveth more grace]

I believe what the witch at Endor saw was actually Samuel, 'today you will be with me', he said. That with other things lead my to believe saw the Judge and Prophet.

[Guest LadyC]

I think the case of saul and samuel, was a one time thing that God orchestrated to further His will, and it wasn't a talking to Samuels ghost-but rather, from samuel, by Gods side-not a ghost but samuel himself, and it was for a very specific reason-something God orchestrated. Mediums, cannot actually get you to talk to a dead person-often times when a person goes through a medium-they are not talking to a loved one (though they are led to believe that) in many cases, mediums use questions to learn about said dead person and then make deductions and make generic, believable statements that make the person seeking the coversation believe it is their loved one, other times it is actual demons who the person is conversing with. It is just another trick in satans arsenol to distract people from the one true God, and one should not take one passage from scripture-and take it out of context-and use it to prove the existence of ghosts.

 

we all know that modern day mediums ask generic questions and give stock answers, but i wasn't around thousands of years ago to know how they practiced then. patriot, i didn't take just one passage and take it out of context. i mentioned (rather non-specifically) that God also tells us many times in scripture not to talk to the dead...  the bible refers to those who speak to the dead as necromancers or spiritists. ghosts are sometimes referred to in scripture as "familiar" spirits.

 

deut 18:11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 

lev 19:31 ‘Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.

isaiah 8:19 And when they say to you, “Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter,” should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living?

lev 20: 6 ‘And the person who turns to mediums and familiar spirits, to prostitute himself with them, I will set My face against that person and cut him off from his people.

lev 20:27  ‘A man or a woman who is a medium, or who has familiar spirits, shall surely be put to death; they shall stone them with stones. Their blood shall be upon them.’”

1 john 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

 

why would God command over and over that we NOT communicate with the dead if it were impossible to do so?

saul died, according to scripture, specifically because he broke faith with God and had someone call up saul.  (1 chronicles 10:13)

 

 

 

so patriot, you can disagree with my understanding of scripture, and you can tell me why you disagree. it could be that sometimes my understanding is in error and another viewpoint might make me see more clearly. but i'd certainly appreciate it if you NEVER again accuse me of taking one passage (or many passages) out of context. my understanding of scripture as it pertains to any subject that i weigh in on almost always comes from lengthy, in depth study of a particular topic over the years. and on those occasions when it doesn't, i will always state that i haven't done much study on it.

[Guest LadyC]

Personally I do not believe in ghosts at all.  What I mean by a ghost is those kinds that are portrayed as being trapped between two worlds upon their death, for some reason or another they are not able to let go and depart this world thus trapped.  I believe ghosts in this form is unbiblical and a bunch of whooy.  I do believe that when a person dies that they do give up the ghost which is to say that their spirit leaves their body and will be in the presence of the Lord or in hell.

 

I do believe in angelic host of heaven who serve in the ranks of God's army on behalf of his children who are obedient to his will.   I also believe in the demonic realm of angels who serve in the ranks of Satan's army who bring temptations to the hearts of man trying to destroy their faith in God.  It this army of demonic angels who serve Satan that we fight against as saints of God as we wrestle not against flesh and blood but we fight a spiritual battle and we fight with spiritual weapons not carnal (worldly, earthly weapons made by hands).  As you can read this in Ephesians 6.

 

But I do not believe in ghosts that purposedly gets trapped in between two worlds because something is causing them to hold on to something in this world until they are able to let go.  Because it is not biblical once your spirit leaves your body it leave this world at that time as well.  The body goes back to the dust of the ground from which it came and the spirit of man goes back to God in heaven or to hell.

 

amen. 

 

as i pointed out earlier, i believe this may come down to how one defines "ghost". these ghostly apparitions people see all the time, i don't know what those are. most likely they are demons. whatever they are is supernatural, and is not of the Holy realm. i don't really think those who have already died are at liberty to come calling upon us.

[Diatheosis]

About animals. There was the donkey who saw the angel of the Lord. and refused to go on.

 

Num 22:24Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path of the vineyards, with a wall on this side and a wall on that side. 25When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she pressed herself to the wall and pressed Balaam's foot against the wall,

 

I could say for pretty sure such happens still today, whilst I am not advocating per se any kind of occult doctrines about the topic.

 

I came to read about this kabbalistic practice (Jihud) in which the student goes to the grave of his teacher after midnight and vizualizes his soul and the soul of the deceased teacher from the dead to be untied this way. Apparently it has had quite a big part in their practices. Does someone know more about it? This is what Isaac Luria was up to.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Luria

 

Of ghosts and demons after what I've experienced the definitions sound a bit restricted. But many mistake the latter as the former. One thing: seek the company of neither one. The ways of the occult only lead to insanity, of which I sadly know too many examples. Nothing Jesus could not resolve though.

[other one]

I came to read about this kabbalistic practice (Jihud) in which the student goes to the grave of his teacher after midnight and vizualizes his soul and the soul of the deceased teacher from the dead to be untied this way. Apparently it has had quite a big part in their practices. Does someone know more about it? This is what Isaac Luria was up to.

I can warn you from personal experience that you should avoid looking into that subject.....   things automatically start to happen when you do.......   and you don't want or need those things in your life.

[dscapp]

For a few years there I was really deep into found footage horror films.

I realized that, this specific genre plays a part in the occult and doesn't mash well will the body of Christ.

I repented months ago and haven't gone back, those movies are getting more evil as the years progress.

Ghosts do not exist, demons do however and demons work through people and people work through the occult.

There's two kinds of mystery, the mystery of holiness and the mystery of the demonic.

Finding out the mysteries of God is much better in the end, from personal experience.

[other one]

For a few years there I was really deep into found footage horror films.

I realized that, this specific genre plays a part in the occult and doesn't mash well will the body of Christ.

I repented months ago and haven't gone back, those movies are getting more evil as the years progress.

Ghosts do not exist, demons do however and demons work through people and people work through the occult.

There's two kinds of mystery, the mystery of holiness and the mystery of the demonic.

Finding out the mysteries of God is much better in the end, from personal experience.

I would certainly agree with that.

[Guest sass]

my perspective, based on my understanding of scripture, is that we are to have no communication with the dead. we're warned about it more than once. if it wasn't possible, then the warnings in scripture would be pointless.

 

saul consulted a medium to bring back the ghost of samuel. the bible gives a pretty clear account of that incident. samuel spoke to saul during that 'encounter'... prophetic words of God.

 

i know the arguments against ghosts. perhaps it's a question of how a person defines a ghost as opposed to a demon. but to MY understanding of scripture, they are real, and they aren't demons. but they are strictly off limits... possibly, at least in part, because to put any faith in those who have already died is to NOT put your faith in God.

 

that's my christian perspective. i won't try to talk anyone out of theirs, nor will i engage in debate over mine.

hey am new can i get some attention 

i do believ bt i cany see

[He giveth more grace]

sass, if you need prayer we can pray for you in the "Prayer Requests" place on the board. If you need guidance just ask and a thread will be opened (started) for you to assist you, but we must move your conversation out of this thread, please. thank you.

[Guest Butero]

Regarding Saul and the witch, even if the being is not Samuel, that is not God being dishonest with us in scripture.  This is an account of what occurred.  The witch said she saw someone, and when she described the being, Saul perceived it was Samuel.  During the conversation, the name Samuel was used, but it could still have been an imposter.  Why does the conversation give validity to it really being Samuel?  So what if the person told Saul that they would soon be together?  Why would we assume Saul would be in the same place as Samuel?  Isn't it just as likely Saul wound up in hell, and with the demons?  Again, this could go either way to me.  I can see reasonable arguments for it being Samuel or being a demon posing as Samuel. 

 

Is it really possible to contact the spirit of the dead?  I am not sure.  Why tell us not to do it if it is not possible?  One possible reason is so we won't be deceived by demons posing as dead loved ones.  I am not completely closed minded to the different possibilities.  Once again, I am just saying I can see legitimate arguments on both sides.