What is the purpose of the judgement in Revelation 20?

[other one]

Maybe some more time in Arabia is warranted?

 

 

 

Maybe some more time in Arabia is warranted?

 

I sure hope you don't have that line copyrighted or I'm going to become a criminal.

 

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

¹¹ Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. ¹² And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Why are they being judged according to their deeds? What is the purpose of this? I can't make sense of it.

Firstly the Genesis earthly realm and heaven is dissolved, meaning it is erased from existence. This is the climax to the end of the world and existence as human beings on earth. This is when the seventh angel blows the seventh trumpet and declares time no longer.

Therefore is is at the end of the millennium time given to the two symbolic witnesses to preach the everlasting gospel to the ends of the earth, then the end will come. The two symbolic witnesses are all the faithful who hold the testimony of Jesus. Therefore we can discern that these symbolic two witnesses have been preaching when Jesus commissioned the disciples in the great commission to preach the gospel to the world. From the 1st hour workmen to the 11th the gospel will be preached until satan martyrs the church. Thus far the symbolic two witnesses have been preaching for almost 2000 years and the gospel has spread far and wide in all the earth.

The two books that are opened are the book of life and the book of the condemned. Just remember that the reaping of the great harvest of God or the first resurrection encompasses the time period when the two symbolic witnesses are preaching the gospel and being killed in numbers throughout the world and throughout all generations.

The expression the dead who remained dead after their earthly bodies died and who had no part in the resurrection of the dead (first resurrection) are now facing the final judgement, that is of the wicked, which is to second death, the death of the soul in the lake of fire, this is why scripture states that at the end both death and hell shall be cast into the lake of fire. At this point all those who were written in the book of life have already entered in as guests to the wedding supper of the lamb of God and those that remained dead serving time in hell have waited out the symbolic millennium to then finally be executed in the lake of fire. At this point death is no longer in play because all humans are dead and those serving in hell can not continue passed this point,so they are annihilated / erased forever.

HOW did you get that the earth disappears at the 7th Angel? John covers that even after the 1000 years is finished, yet John covers the 7th trumpet as a MIDPOINT event in the 70th week. Therefore, your timing is WRONG. You are WRONG AGAIN; there is not one hint that the lake of fire annihilates forever. On the other hand, there are many verses that deny such a theory. All humans will live or exist as long as God exists. They will SUFFER forever.

LAMAD

For the sake of Christ's truth, please give me the courtesy to respond to your statement rather than cutting me off like that. I want to only serve and do not want to give the wrong impression that I am better than you or anyone else.

I will make a statement of belief then I will elaborate on the point that the seventh angel is The Lord who blows the seventh trumpet and declares time no longer.

My statement of belief is related to a vision shown to me and that is of The Lord blowing the seventh trumpet from the East whilst standing on a chariot in the night sky, with the heavenly city New Jerusalem which was suspended in the sky, glowing with all the colours of the rainbow and was in two halves, half towards the northern hemisphere and the other half towards the Southern Hemisphere.

In the versus below the seventh angel is declared to have dominion over the sea and the earth which symbolises it when he is said to be standing upon them. The sea represents peoples and the earth represents earth/creation/Genesis. He is pictured as the Son of Man the Christ, because just like Jesus of Nazareth swears by his higher authority as the Father (John 1:1-4). He declares time no longer, which literally means no earthly time, the end of earth.

Revelation 10:5-6

And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Revelation 10:7 below declares that the mystery of God is finished when he, who is the the seventh angel, who is the Son of Man, who had initially revealed the mystery to his servants the prophets, ends up blowing his trumpet. When the mystery of God is said to be finished at the sounding of the seventh trumpet, then that declares an end to the earthly realm, because everything would have been passed over to the Father through death and onto resurrection, so that the saying God may be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:28). The mystery of God is not yet finished if there are humans still living because Saint Paul in the previous verse said that The last enemy to be destroyed is death, meaning it will no longer continue from that point onward. At this junction everyone is dead and all those who were bidden to the wedding supper of the lamb of God have arrived through the resurrection of the dead (first resurrection) and those that had not entered and who were serving in hell are annihilated in the lake of fire, the second death, the death of the soul. Past this point death and hell cannot continue.

Look at:

Revelation 20:14-15

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This verse essentially says that those that were not found in the book of life were discarded of for good, meaning they have been erased from the plan of God and this signals the end of hell and the end of death itself because everyone has died and either has entered into Christ's heavenly barn through the resurrection as one of his many angelic hosts of heaven (white cloud) that he sits on, or they have waited out their time period in the darkness of hell and now face the day of final execution in the lake of fire, the second death.

1 Corinthians 15:28

When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Revelation 10:7

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

When the declaration Rev. 11:15 is made, the earthly kingdoms have all passed away never to be found and the reign of Christ continues even forever. This indicates an end to man made earthly kingdoms and in that regard the end of the world. Remembering what God has decreed from long ago according to Isaiah versus below:

Isaiah 14:21-23

Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. For I will rise up against them, saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord. I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts.

Revelation 11:15

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

In Rev.16:17 and in context to Rev. 16:20 the DEED IS DONE! and we have every island fleeing away and the mountains were not found. If you consider mountains in a literal sense as literal mountains or as spiritual as congregation of peoples, then you have the same message, that is, no one is there, everyone is dead. Isaiah puts it poetically as follows:

Isaiah 14:7-8

7All the lands are at rest and at peace; they break into singing. 8Even the junipers and the cedars of Lebanon gloat over you and say,

“Now that you have been laid low, no one comes to cut us down.”

The lands of the world are at rest because there is no human around to come and cut them down in the first place, let alone trees left to cut down. Everything is gone, burnt up.

Revelation 16:17

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Revelation 16:20

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

So the seventh trumpet sounding is the end to all earthly things, the fat lady has sung and there is no turning back.

 

Sorry, but I cannot believe any of this. It is just too far removed from the truth of scripture. Did you ever read this translation?

 

New International Version

And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, "There will be no more delay!

 

New Living Translation

He swore an oath in the name of the one who lives forever and ever, who created the heavens and everything in them, the earth and everything in it, and the sea and everything in it. He said, "There will be no more delay.

 

English Standard Version

and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay,

 

New American Standard Bible

and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer,

 

Holman Christian Standard Bible

He swore an oath by the One who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it: "There will no longer be an interval of time,

 

International Standard Version

He swore an oath by the one who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and everything in it, the earth and everything in it, and the sea and everything in it: "There will be no more delay.

 

It seems that TIME as we know it continues on from this point, since we see that the 42 months of trampling, the 1260 days of testifying, the 1260 days of fleeing, the 3 1/2 years of protection, even the 42 months of authority will continue to run down. These are GOD SPECIFIED times. Therefore I believe a more correct translation is that there will be NO MORE DELAY, but God's judgment will intensify immediately. You see, it is at the 7th trumpet that Jesus finally gets control of the kingdoms of the earth. While Satan reigned, God had no authority to destroy the earth. But once the kingdoms of the earth are transferred to Jesus at the 7th trumpet, THEN God's will will be done, and the destruction of earth will take place, one vial at a time. As I have said, the 7th trumpet marks the MIDPOINT of the week, not the end.

 

Next, angels are not God and God is not an angel: Jesus Christ our Lord CREATED the angels. Just a little question: how could the one swearing to the God who created everything BE the God who created everything? That does not make sense.

 

Death is to completely destroyed until after the 1000 year reign of Christ. People will DIE at the Gog - Magog war. That war comes after the 1000 years which comes after the 70th week, which comes after the rapture of the church.

 

How long is forever?

 

Revelation 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

It seems you either don't believe this or don't understand it.

 

^{Rev. 11:15} And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

Again it seems you don't understand this: it is only a TRANSFER of ownership. The Kingdoms REMAIN; only who rules over these kingdoms changes.

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

 

 

you sure use that word wrong a lot

 

 

I know. It is sad. But there is a good reason; people continue to write things against the word of God. that makes what they write WRONG. Example here was writing that the time the heaven and earth dissolve is the very same time as the 7th angel. Such a theory is preposterous. I could have said WRONG about his take on the Two Witnesses. But I let that go.

 

Occasionally I will write "good job," when someone gets something right.

 

LAMAD

 

 

With end times prophecy being largely symbolic and multifaceted, have you ever considered the possibility that you might be wrong?  No need to answer that in this thread because we all know how we "should" respond to that question.  Answer that question in the way that you engage in discussion. 

 

I will answer this way: did Paul have any doubt at all about HIS gospel he received through God revealing it to Him? He did not go up to Jerusalem and confer with those who were "somewhat" among the brethren until much later. He went right out and began to teach what God had revealed to him. I only know what has been revealed to me. But what has been revealed I know very well, just as Paul knew his revelations very well. I don't mean I ate too much pizza and thought I imagined some dream. No, God SPOKE and I listened. I heard His voice and His words. I am not ashamed of that, for it is written, "my sheep know my voice." HOW can we know His voice? Because we HEAR His voice. However, I never heard His voice until I had been born again for many years.

 

I was just minding my own business, reading Daniel 9:27, and when my eyes and my mind got to the word "midst" suddenly God spoke:  "you could find that exact midpoint clearly marked in the book of Revelation." That was the beginning of much teaching that came from the Holy Spirit.

 

LAMAD

 

 

I can't question your experiences but I do know that anything that God reveals to anyone will not contradict his written word.  How we understand what He reveals to us through a dream or vision or voice must harmonize with what has already been written.

 

My point was that your posts tend to come across as a bit condescending.  If God has given you something to share, share it in love.  Don't try to force-feed it.  It's the Holy Spirit who leads us into an understanding of the truth and shows us the things to come.

 

"Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."  1 Corinthians 13:4-7

 

Maybe some more time in Arabia is warranted?

 

For beginners, I have the patience  of a buzzard and will teach as long as anyone wished to learn. But for senior or advanced members here that push false doctrine, I have very little patience. We are OUT OF TIME. Very soon Jesus will blow the trumpet and the rapture will take place, and all those who deny it will be left wondering what happened. I would not be here except for the sake of readers. By the way, love can be hard. God's judgment is love, because God IS love. Finally, I really don't wish to be condescending.

 

LAMAD

[Salty]

For beginners, I have the patience  of a buzzard and will teach as long as anyone wished to learn. But for senior or advanced members here that push false doctrine, I have very little patience. We are OUT OF TIME. Very soon Jesus will blow the trumpet and the rapture will take place, and all those who deny it will be left wondering what happened. I would not be here except for the sake of readers. By the way, love can be hard. God's judgment is love, because God IS love. Finally, I really don't wish to be condescending.

 

 

 

LAMAD

 

 

I feel likewise with those who push the false 1830's Pre-Trib secret Rapture theory, because that idea is nowhere written in God's Word, except as a warning to those who preach it per Ezekiel 13.

 

It would be better to be not found in blame with that doctrine when our Lord Jesus arrives after the tribulation like He said (Matt.24:29-31; Rev.16:15-16).

[iamlamad]

 

For beginners, I have the patience  of a buzzard and will teach as long as anyone wished to learn. But for senior or advanced members here that push false doctrine, I have very little patience. We are OUT OF TIME. Very soon Jesus will blow the trumpet and the rapture will take place, and all those who deny it will be left wondering what happened. I would not be here except for the sake of readers. By the way, love can be hard. God's judgment is love, because God IS love. Finally, I really don't wish to be condescending.

 

 

 

LAMAD

 

 

I feel likewise with those who push the false 1830's Pre-Trib secret Rapture theory, because that idea is nowhere written in God's Word, except as a warning to those who preach it per Ezekiel 13.

 

It would be better to be not found in blame with that doctrine when our Lord Jesus arrives after the tribulation like He said (Matt.24:29-31; Rev.16:15-16).

 

Salty, if you wish to be left behind, that is your business and is between you and God. However, I will warn you, seconds after the Bride had been snatched away and doom and gloom and fear and torment has descended on all those left behind (those that survive Paul's "sudden destruction) you will be left banging your head against a wall, screaming, "why am I left behind?"

 

Just know that God made a way of escape (luke 21:36) but you refused it. Of course, there is still time; you can change your mind. Go back and camp on 1 thes. 4 & 5 until you believe it. Study and obey Luke 12:36. I will certainly have no trouble believing in the pretrib rapture doctrine, for it is clearly laid out in scripture.

 

The TRUTH is, He is coming pretrib FOR His bride, who will all be WATCHING for His coming. What will those who cannot believe in the pretrib rapture be watching for? Of course the rise of the Antichrist BEAST of Rev. 13. He is what they BELIEVE they will see first.

 

I wish you luck with that, since I doubt that you will change your mind.

 

LAMAD

[Salty]

 

 

I feel likewise with those who push the false 1830's Pre-Trib secret Rapture theory, because that idea is nowhere written in God's Word, except as a warning to those who preach it per Ezekiel 13.

 

It would be better to be not found in blame with that doctrine when our Lord Jesus arrives after the tribulation like He said (Matt.24:29-31; Rev.16:15-16).

 

 

Salty, if you wish to be left behind, that is your business and is between you and God. However, I will warn you, seconds after the Bride had been snatched away and doom and gloom and fear and torment has descended on all those left behind (those that survive Paul's "sudden destruction) you will be left banging your head against a wall, screaming, "why am I left behind?"

 

Just know that God made a way of escape (luke 21:36) but you refused it. Of course, there is still time; you can change your mind. Go back and camp on 1 thes. 4 & 5 until you believe it. Study and obey Luke 12:36. I will certainly have no trouble believing in the pretrib rapture doctrine, for it is clearly laid out in scripture.

 

The TRUTH is, He is coming pretrib FOR His bride, who will all be WATCHING for His coming. What will those who cannot believe in the pretrib rapture be watching for? Of course the rise of the Antichrist BEAST of Rev. 13. He is what they BELIEVE they will see first.

 

I wish you luck with that, since I doubt that you will change your mind.

 

LAMAD

 

 

No such thing as "Left Behind" Christian Doctrine in God's Word. That idea is from men, like Edward Irving, John Darby, Cyrus Scofield, Time LaHaye, etc. It was a doctrine John Darby in 1830's Britain got from the Edward Irving church.

 

Per the end of Luke 17 and Matt.24:28, the one 'taken' our Lord Jesus compares to a dead "carcase", gathered wheresoever the eagles are gathered. So if you... want to be like a dead "carcase" already gathered to the coming Antichrist instead of waiting on our Lord Jesus' coming like He commanded, then that indeed is between you and our Heavenly Father. So there, YOU have been warned, and that actually by our Lord Jesus in His Word, because that is one of main things He warns His Church about, not being deceived by that false Christ that comes first! (2 Thess.2).

 

Any time... you want to debate with me on that false Pre-Trib Secret Rapture doctrine, I am able. There's a one-on-one debate section in this Forum, we can go there.

 

We'll go to the Scriptures of God's Word directly and blowing great swelling words of hot air like you've done above will mean automatic failure in the debate. Are you up for my challenge??? Come on, let's do it.

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

I feel likewise with those who push the false 1830's Pre-Trib secret Rapture theory, because that idea is nowhere written in God's Word, except as a warning to those who preach it per Ezekiel 13.

 

It would be better to be not found in blame with that doctrine when our Lord Jesus arrives after the tribulation like He said (Matt.24:29-31; Rev.16:15-16).

 

 

Salty, if you wish to be left behind, that is your business and is between you and God. However, I will warn you, seconds after the Bride had been snatched away and doom and gloom and fear and torment has descended on all those left behind (those that survive Paul's "sudden destruction) you will be left banging your head against a wall, screaming, "why am I left behind?"

 

Just know that God made a way of escape (luke 21:36) but you refused it. Of course, there is still time; you can change your mind. Go back and camp on 1 thes. 4 & 5 until you believe it. Study and obey Luke 12:36. I will certainly have no trouble believing in the pretrib rapture doctrine, for it is clearly laid out in scripture.

 

The TRUTH is, He is coming pretrib FOR His bride, who will all be WATCHING for His coming. What will those who cannot believe in the pretrib rapture be watching for? Of course the rise of the Antichrist BEAST of Rev. 13. He is what they BELIEVE they will see first.

 

I wish you luck with that, since I doubt that you will change your mind.

 

LAMAD

 

 

No such thing as "Left Behind" Christian Doctrine in God's Word. That idea is from men, like Edward Irving, John Darby, Cyrus Scofield, Time LaHaye, etc. It was a doctrine John Darby in 1830's Britain got from the Edward Irving church.

 

Per the end of Luke 17 and Matt.24:28, the one 'taken' our Lord Jesus compares to a dead "carcase", gathered wheresoever the eagles are gathered. So if you... want to be like a dead "carcase" already gathered to the coming Antichrist instead of waiting on our Lord Jesus' coming like He commanded, then that indeed is between you and our Heavenly Father. So there, YOU have been warned, and that actually by our Lord Jesus in His Word, because that is one of main things He warns His Church about, not being deceived by that false Christ that comes first! (2 Thess.2).

 

Any time... you want to debate with me on that false Pre-Trib Secret Rapture doctrine, I am able. There's a one-on-one debate section in this Forum, we can go there.

 

We'll go to the Scriptures of God's Word directly and blowing great swelling words of hot air like you've done above will mean automatic failure in the debate. Are you up for my challenge??? Come on, let's do it.

 

I will repeat what I said above: if you choose to be left behind, that is your choice. There will certainly be a pretrib rapture. It will be both pre-70th week and pre-Day of the Lord. It is right there in 1 Thes. 4 & 5 for all to read. If anyone chooses not to believe what Paul wrote, that is between them and God. What is to debate? Is what Paul wrote TRUTH, or not?

 

Does the bible speak of any "left behind?" Not in those words, no, but it CERTAINLY speaks of some that will be spit out. God is not at all happy with lukewarm believers. Make no mistake here: lukewarm believers are not qualified for the rapture. Jesus will be coming for those filled with the Holy Spirit and SOLD OUT to Him.

 

LAMAD

[Salty]

I will repeat what I said above: if you choose to be left behind, that is your choice. There will certainly be a pretrib rapture. It will be both pre-70th week and pre-Day of the Lord. It is right there in 1 Thes. 4 & 5 for all to read. If anyone chooses not to believe what Paul wrote, that is between them and God. What is to debate? Is what Paul wrote TRUTH, or not?

 

 

Does the bible speak of any "left behind?" Not in those words, no, but it CERTAINLY speaks of some that will be spit out. God is not at all happy with lukewarm believers. Make no mistake here: lukewarm believers are not qualified for the rapture. Jesus will be coming for those filled with the Holy Spirit and SOLD OUT to Him.

 

LAMAD

 

 

And I repeat my CHALLENGE to you for a one-on-one debate about the Pre-Trib Secret Rapture theory of men.

 

Apparently you are not able to do that debate, because you would not be able to do all that mouthing you put in your posts, which reveals a strong character weakness.

[iamlamad]

 

I will repeat what I said above: if you choose to be left behind, that is your choice. There will certainly be a pretrib rapture. It will be both pre-70th week and pre-Day of the Lord. It is right there in 1 Thes. 4 & 5 for all to read. If anyone chooses not to believe what Paul wrote, that is between them and God. What is to debate? Is what Paul wrote TRUTH, or not?

 

 

Does the bible speak of any "left behind?" Not in those words, no, but it CERTAINLY speaks of some that will be spit out. God is not at all happy with lukewarm believers. Make no mistake here: lukewarm believers are not qualified for the rapture. Jesus will be coming for those filled with the Holy Spirit and SOLD OUT to Him.

 

LAMAD

 

 

And I repeat my CHALLENGE to you for a one-on-one debate about the Pre-Trib Secret Rapture theory of men.

 

Apparently you are not able to do that debate, because you would not be able to do all that mouthing you put in your posts, which reveals a strong character weakness.

 

 I don't do debates. They accomplish nothing. We have both stated our arguments and scriptures here, where all can read. I am only here to offer the readers the scriptures that really tell WHEN the rapture will take place. Each can make up their own mind.

 

If you continue to write things that cannot be backed up be a good exegesis of scripture, I will continue to write.  I know you put a lot of emphasis on Jesus coming in Matthew 24 and the gathering there, incorrectly thinking that is Paul's rapture. I don't think we will have long to wait to see which theory is correct. The problem with that is, when my theory - backed by solid scripture in 1 Thes. 4 & 5 -  is proven correct, you will be left behind Every reader here needs to know that being left behind is a very real possibility.

 

LAMAD

[Salty]

 

 

And I repeat my CHALLENGE to you for a one-on-one debate about the Pre-Trib Secret Rapture theory of men.

 

Apparently you are not able to do that debate, because you would not be able to do all that mouthing you put in your posts, which reveals a strong character weakness.

 

 I don't do debates. They accomplish nothing. We have both stated our arguments and scriptures here, where all can read. I am only here to offer the readers the scriptures that really tell WHEN the rapture will take place. Each can make up their own mind.

 

If you continue to write things that cannot be backed up be a good exegesis of scripture, I will continue to write.  I know you put a lot of emphasis on Jesus coming in Matthew 24 and the gathering there, incorrectly thinking that is Paul's rapture. I don't think we will have long to wait to see which theory is correct. The problem with that is, when my theory - backed by solid scripture in 1 Thes. 4 & 5 -  is proven correct, you will be left behind Every reader here needs to know that being left behind is a very real possibility.

 

LAMAD

 

 

Of course you don't do one-on-one debates using the rules of debate, because it would immediately show up weaknesses and errors in your interpretation of God's Holy Writ.

 

But don't deceive yourself, because those same weaknesses and errors in interpretation still show up in these Forum sections too. The main difference is you can't use all that 'hot air' and charlatan type mouthing in a real debate, which would mean you'd loose your main charlatan tools you try to use on this part of the forum.