A Very Tough Question. Please Think Before Answering

[other one]

Yes, and yet it attests to the Lord's great mercy that despite that deep hurt that Christ entrusted Peter to be the first spokesman for the post Pentecost Church that brought in over 3000 converts in its first day. Certainly from that day on Peter walked faithfully proclaiming the Gospel to many and dying at the hands of Nero in crucifixion for being a Christian.

In Christ, Pat

 

Personally I think it made Peter a lot stronger...

[Macs Son]

Yes, and yet it attests to the Lord's great mercy that despite that deep hurt that Christ entrusted Peter to be the first spokesman for the post Pentecost Church that brought in over 3000 converts in its first day. Certainly from that day on Peter walked faithfully proclaiming the Gospel to many and dying at the hands of Nero in crucifixion for being a Christian.

In Christ, Pat

Personally I think it made Peter a lot stronger...

Amen, I believe that too. I've made some whopper mistakes myself after becoming a Christian and I always not only marvel at the Lord's patience with me but also how he can turn my wrong direction into a stronger walk in His ways. Our mistakes are great teachers if we submit ourselves to the Lord.

[alphaparticle]

 

I don't think if you make a verbal denial of Jesus, and then are beheaded, that that would send you to hell. If you make a public denial merely out of fear of pain, torture, death, etc., that isn't a denial in the sense of actual inner rejection. For instance, Peter denied Christ, it seems clear though he didn't really mean it. He was afraid.

Hi AP

An interesting juxtaposition on Peter. I don't think denying the Lord is the unpardonable sin either but certainly what the Lord stated is true so I do believe the act of denying Him is sin and does result in broken fellowship with both Christ and the Father.

“But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

If we study the case of Peter further we can see this was a very serious matter between the Lord and Peter and we have much to learn by it since it is in all 4 Gospels

Point #1: Peter in his own strength stated he would never forsake the Lord and was ready to die for Him and with Him. In my own heart I envision I could do this too but when confronted by the reality of the situation we need the Lord's strength more than ever and our bravado may fail us so we should not rely on it.

Luke 22:31-34

And the Lord said,"Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren."

But he said to Him, "Lord, I am ready to go with You, both to prison and to death."

Then He said, "I tell you, Peter, the rooster shall not crow this day before you will deny three times that you know Me."

Point #2

Please note that the Lord said, "when you have returned to Me". The implication here is one of broken fellowship between them but Jesus Himself prayed for Peter that his faith would not fail and tells him he will return to Him. Peter was given the time to repent of his actions and he publically confessed his sin, documenting it for all time - as it is in all 4 Gospels that we may learn from it. This was a horrible experience for Peter and when he saw the Lord looking right at him in his denial it had to be hurtful. We may not be able to feel the depth of that pain but maybe some of us had experiences of our spouse denying the wedding vows that bind husband and wife, or a family member that denies you as a member of the family, or even friends that after you came to Christ and confessed Him which no longer considered your long friendship. Make no mistake this ranks right up there with sins that maim like a knife to the heart.

Luke 22:60-62

But Peter said, "Man, I do not know what you are saying!" Immediately, while he was still speaking, the rooster crowed. And the Lord turned and looked at Peter. Then Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how He had said to him, "Before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times." So Peter went out and wept bitterly.

Point #3

This sin was not winked at as no big deal. It was a terribly big deal! We must remember the Lord's instruction to Peter after the resurrection.

John 21:15-9

So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me more than these?"

He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "Feed My lambs."

He said to him again a second time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?"

He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "Tend My sheep."

He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?"

Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You."

Jesus said to him, "Feed My sheep. Most assuredly, I say to you, when you were younger, you girded yourself and walked where you wished; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish."

This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify God.

And when He had spoken this, He said to him, "Follow Me."

In Christ, Pat

 

The part I find most relevant here is point 2. Does returning to Christ here mean that Peter was unsaved during the time he was sinning? I see no reason to think that was the case. There is also no reason to think that sin causing separation from God means that if a believer sins he is unsaved. I suspect it is the case that those who die in agony but without ever denying Christ were very likely helped to that conclusion by the fortification of the Spirit, and who has the Spirit in that sense except those who are saved.

 

There is a list of sins that keeps you out of heaven:

 

1 cor 6:9-10

 

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice

homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

So the question I have is, as these are listed as sins that keep you out of heaven, does every time a believer steal, exercise greed, get drunk, etc., every time, do they lose their salvation?

   

[Macs Son]

So the question I have is, as these are listed as sins that keep you out of heaven, does every time a believer steal, exercise greed, get drunk, etc., every time, do they lose their salvation?

Notice Jesus stated to Peter, ","Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail;

So I don't think Peter's faith in Christ ever failed him but that said his faith caused him to repent and return to the Lord. The words of the Lord must be true so in the act of denying Christ, his fellowship was broken with the Father and the Son. So, yes, He fell but the Lord picked him up off the floor with His prayers just as he plucked him out of the sea. I think Peter's repentance was swift. Judas however is probably another story. I believe he was lost forever, though chosen by Jesus as one of the twelve.

In Christ, Pat

Edited September 1, 2014 by Macs Son