Pastor claims bible says guns are ok

[coheir]

Exo

22

2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.

verse 2 expresses protection of family (home)

Psa 82

4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

verse 4 express protection of others

Ezk 33

6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

also before these all men carried a staff it had two purposes

verse 6 shows again one must protect others

Deu 23

13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

verse 13 shows the "staff" most carried was a weapon, which God had them modify not get rid of the weapon

[GoldenEagle]

I think if one uses a weapon to kill an animal to feed their family is a good use for a weapon.

If one chooses to be a police officer or in the military and they use their weapon on somebody, then they have to live with what they have done the rest of their lives.

I know.

 

But if someone says they will shoot anyone who is about their harm their loved ones, well, where does God fit in?

Do you say, "move over God, I'll take care of this".

Or do you cry out, JESUS!'.

Or do you say to yourself something else?

Do you panic and shoot in fear?

Do you shoot with the feeling of justification?

 

What goes on inside your heart when you pull the trigger?

I'm not judging, I just don't understand.

Can someone express their feelings about this?

 

So are you saying that a person who is part of the task force associated with protecting us (Police, Military, etc.) were to shoot someone that is sin?

For clarification I've never shot anyone. Yet this is something that is now dear and near to my heart like Other one has mentioned his family. I have two small children and I'm married. Are you saying it is never righteous to protect the innocent (kids for example)?

Curious. Trying to understand your point of view.

 

God bless,

GE

 

[Tiger Eye]

I see people misunderstand me.

 

Just go ahead and shoot someone, and then tell me how you deal with that the rest of your life.

That was my point.

[coheir]

I see people misunderstand me.

 

Just go ahead and shoot someone, and then tell me how you deal with that the rest of your life.

That was my point.

if that person is about to rape/kill my child or wife and I kill him the Lord will help me deal with it

Guns are weapons to kill with if in the wrong persons hands, they are for Protection in the hands of another.

 one should be able to see this distinction.

[Qnts2]

I see people misunderstand me.

 

Just go ahead and shoot someone, and then tell me how you deal with that the rest of your life.

That was my point.

 

Adding to the question.

 

Suppose I have bought a gun to protect my family, and someone comes in threatening my family. I do not shoot them, but they kill someone in my family. Now, imagine how you deal with that for the rest of your life? That you didn't shoot them? 

 

I think, either way, you will have questions, and doubts, and guilt, for the rest of your life unless you deal with it.

 

In my mind, I can only guess what the personal repercussions would be. Chances are,  the intruder is not saved, so my shooting would send them to an eternity in hell. If my family member who was saved was killed, they will spend eternity in heaven with Jesus. But if my family member was not saved, they will spend eternity in hell.  

 

Would the possible eternal consequences change your actions?

[Guest LadyC]

qnts, if the intruder you shot was not saved, and he died and went to hell, that is in no way your responsibility. i've said this many times, and it's worth repeating. God knows from the beginning who will and who will not accept His gift of salvation. He is not going to allow a person to die without Him if He knows that given more time, they would accept Him. God is still in control, always. Those who die without accepting Christ would never have accepted Him, even if they'd lived to be 110 years old.

 

tiger eye, like qnts and others here, i disagree with your position. but don't let the hard questions run you off. there are plenty here who agree with you.

[Qnts2]

There was an inspirational story which went around the internet for a while as follows. Sorry for the caps but the version I have is in all caps.

 

AFTER A FEW OF THE USUAL SUNDAY EVENING HYMNS, THE CHURCH'S PASTOR SLOWLY STOOD UP, WALKED OVER TO THE PULPIT AND, BEFORE HE GAVE HIS SERMON FOR THE EVENING, BRIEFLY INTRODUCED A GUEST MINISTER WHO WAS IN THE SERVICE THAT EVENING. IN THE INTRODUCTION, THE PASTOR TOLD THE CONGREGATION THAT THE GUEST MINISTER WAS ONE OF HIS DEAREST CHILDHOOD FRIENDS AND THAT HE WANTED HIM TO HAVE A FEW MOMENTS TO GREET THE CHURCH AND SHARE WHATEVER HE FELT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR THE SERVICE.

WITH THAT, AN ELDERLY MAN STEPPED UP TO THE PULPIT AND BEGAN TO SPEAK.

"A FATHER, HIS SON, AND A FRIEND OF HIS SON WERE SAILING OFF THE PACIFIC COAST," HE BEGAN, "WHEN A FAST APPROACHING STORM BLOCKED ANY ATTEMPT TO GET BACK TO THE SHORE. THE WAVES WERE SO HIGH, THAT EVEN THOUGH THE FATHER WAS AN EXPERIENCED SAILOR, HE COULD NOT KEEP THE BOAT UPRIGHT AND THE THREE WERE SWEPT INTO THE OCEAN AS THE BOAT CAPSIZED."

THE OLD MAN HESITATED FOR A MOMENT, MAKING EYE CONTACT WITH TWO TEENAGERS WHO WERE, FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THE SERVICE BEGAN, LOOKING SOMEWHAT INTERESTED IN HIS STORY. THE AGED MINISTER CONTINUED WITH HIS STORY, "GRABBING A RESCUE LINE, THE FATHER HAD TO MAKE THE MOST EXCRUCIATING DECISION OF HIS LIFE: TO WHICH BOY HE WOULD THROW THE OTHER END OF THE LIFE LINE. HE ONLY HAD SECONDS TO MAKE THE DECISION. THE FATHER KNEW THAT HIS SON WAS A CHRISTIAN AND HE ALSO KNEW THAT HIS SON'S FRIEND WAS NOT. THE AGONY OF HIS DECISION COULD NOT BE MATCHED BY THE TORRENT OF WAVES. AS THE FATHER YELLED OUT, "I LOVE YOU, SON!" HE THREW OUT THE LIFE LINE TO HIS SON'S FRIEND. BY THE TIME THE FATHER HAD PULLED THE FRIEND BACK TO THE CAPSIZED BOAT, HIS SON HAD DISAPPEARED BENEATH THE RAGING SWELLS INTO THE BLACK OF NIGHT . . . HIS BODY WAS NEVER RECOVERED.

BY THIS TIME, THE TWO TEENAGERS WERE SITTING UP STRAIGHT IN THE PEW, ANXIOUSLY WAITING FOR THE NEXT WORDS TO COME OUT OF THE OLD MINISTER'S MOUTH.

"THE FATHER," HE CONTINUED, "KNEW HIS SON WOULD STEP INTO ETERNITY WITH JESUS AND HE COULD NOT BEAR THE THOUGHT OF HIS SON'S FRIEND STEPPING INTO AN ETERNITY WITHOUT JESUS. THEREFORE, HE SACRIFICED HIS SON TO SAVE THE SON'S FRIEND. HOW GREAT IS THE LOVE OF GOD THAT HE SHOULD DO THE SAME FOR US. OUR HEAVENLY FATHER SACRIFICED HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT WE COULD BE SAVED. I URGE YOU TO ACCEPT HIS OFFER TO RESCUE YOU AND TAKE A HOLD OF THE LIFE LINE HE IS THROWING OUT TO YOU IN THIS SERVICE."

. . . WITH THAT, THE OLD MAN TURNED AND SAT BACK DOWN IN HIS CHAIR AS SILENCE FILLED THE ROOM.

THE PASTOR AGAIN WALKED SLOWLY TO THE PULPIT AND DELIVERED A BRIEF SERMON WITH AN INVITATION AT THE END. HOWEVER, NO ONE RESPONDED TO THE APPEAL. WITHIN MINUTES AFTER THE SERVICE ENDED, THE TWO TEENAGERS WERE AT THE OLD MAN'S SIDE. "THAT WAS A NICE STORY," POLITELY STATED ONE OF THE BOYS, "BUT I DON'T THINK IT WAS VERY REALISTIC FOR A FATHER TO GIVE UP HIS ONLY SON'S LIFE IN HOPES THAT THE OTHER BOY WOULD BECOME A CHRISTIAN."

"WELL, YOU'VE GOT A POINT THERE," THE OLD MAN REPLIED, GLANCING DOWN AT HIS WORN BIBLE. A BIG SMILE BROADENED HIS NARROW FACE, HE ONCE AGAIN LOOKED UP AT THE BOYS AND SAID, "IT SURE ISN'T VERY REALISTIC, IS IT? BUT, I'M STANDING HERE TODAY TO TELL YOU THAT STORY GIVES ME A GLIMPSE OF WHAT IT MUST HAVE BEEN LIKE FOR GOD TO GIVE UP HIS SON FOR ME. YOU SEE --- I WAS THAT FATHER AND YOUR PASTOR IS MY
SON'S FRIEND."

 

 

I had a friend who was a Calvinist. He was a missionary and he had told his own family that he was confident in their salvation, so if there was ever a choice to be made, he was assured of their salvation, so would save the unbeliever, so that the unbeliever would have further opportunity to accept Jesus. Since this person was a Calvinist and therefore believed in election, I would have thought he would not be concerned with the salvation of the unbeliever as surely, if that person died, it would violate the Calvinist belief in unconditional election if he could have accepted Jesus had he not died at that time, but at the same time, dying is not a tragedy for a Christian, but it is the worst tragedy for the unsaved. Extending temporal life for the sake of the unbeliever, whether we believe in the sovereignty of God, is still offering that person a precious gift of time, time to choose Jesus.  

[Sevenseas]

I see people misunderstand me.

 

Just go ahead and shoot someone, and then tell me how you deal with that the rest of your life.

That was my point.

 

 

whoopsie

 

Just let someone destroy your family while you watch and then tell us how you deal with that the rest of your life

 

I would rather go down trying to defend someone WITHOUT a weapon then stand there and do nothing.  It's just not in me to stand by...even when I was a kid

if I saw someone mistreating their dog on the street I would tell them stop...which made them do a double take cause a little kid was saying don't hit, kick or whatever

the dog

 

yes, really

[firestormx]

 

 

one last thing. is it just a gun thing? or are you also opposed to someone using their physical body to protect an innocent? for example, if a pedophile was caught assaulting a child, would you have the same problem with the christian who slammed him up against a wall to get him off the child?

I don't like guns at all, so I won't even pretend I do. as for the rest, well....I just don't know. The bible says whatever is not of Faith is sin, so I guess it would depend on the heart of the christian( which only God can Judge the Heart). Guns however have 1 purpose, they were created for one purpose....to maim, to kill and to destroy, and that is not how we are instructed to live. No LadyC I don't like Guns.

 

Interesting, again how does this apply to law enforcement and military?

God bless,

GE

 

Law enforcement and the military live and are guided by worldly standards. We on the other hand are suppose to be guided by God and by Peace. Their is suppose to be a difference in how we deal and handle things compared to the rest of the world. I don't expect the worldly police or military to live according to biblical standards. Besides I've had bad experiences with cops, and don't hold them in real high regard. IMO most cops I have ever had to deal with have had a God complex and think their justified no matter what they do.

[Guest LadyC]

There was an inspirational story which went around the internet for a while as follows. Sorry for the caps but the version I have is in all caps.

 

 

I had a friend who was a Calvinist. He was a missionary and he had told his own family that he was confident in their salvation, so if there was ever a choice to be made, he was assured of their salvation, so would save the unbeliever, so that the unbeliever would have further opportunity to accept Jesus. Since this person was a Calvinist and therefore believed in election, I would have thought he would not be concerned with the salvation of the unbeliever as surely, if that person died, it would violate the Calvinist belief in unconditional election if he could have accepted Jesus had he not died at that time, but at the same time, dying is not a tragedy for a Christian, but it is the worst tragedy for the unsaved. Extending temporal life for the sake of the unbeliever, whether we believe in the sovereignty of God, is still offering that person a precious gift of time, time to choose Jesus.  

 

that actually just makes my point. God didn't allow that guy to die because He knew that he'd eventually come to Christ. GOD, not the dad in the story, was in control. to think otherwise would be to attribute the salvation of the kid that grew up to be a pastor to the dad who didn't save his own child.

 

it's a touching story. but it's still a coin with two sides, and two perspectives.

 

and for the record, i'm not a calvanist. EVERY person is given AMPLE opportunities to accept Christ as savior. EVERY person. God having foreknowledge does not mean He has only given the option to certain people. God knows who will and won't accept Him. those who will, will. those who won't, wouldn't no matter how many opportunities they had.