Pastor claims bible says guns are ok

[Sevenseas]

if I was a mod I'd give this a time out     

[Hall7]

hall, YOU were the one who raised the question, and i quote, "do you feel superior to own one". 

 

superior to what? to whom? given the context of your question and this discussion, it seems you can only mean do those who own guns feel superior to those who do not own guns.

 

i don't know how you have such trouble then, understanding the question in reverse. do you feel superior to those who own guns because you somehow think you are more righteous, more pious, more faithful than those who do?

 

YOU asked the original question. i just turned it back around on you. if you have such trouble understanding the question, maybe you shouldn't ask it.

I guess you're not explaining your questions correctly, or maybe I'm the one with trouble understanding them.

I meant to feel superior as in more manly, more macho, and there is pride in those feelings. So I guess that superiority is addressed more to men than women. I don't feel more righteous than anyone else, I might have more faith than some, but that's about it.

[Guest LadyC]

 

hall, YOU were the one who raised the question, and i quote, "do you feel superior to own one". 

 

superior to what? to whom? given the context of your question and this discussion, it seems you can only mean do those who own guns feel superior to those who do not own guns.

 

i don't know how you have such trouble then, understanding the question in reverse. do you feel superior to those who own guns because you somehow think you are more righteous, more pious, more faithful than those who do?

 

YOU asked the original question. i just turned it back around on you. if you have such trouble understanding the question, maybe you shouldn't ask it.

I guess you're not explaining your questions correctly, or maybe I'm the one with trouble understanding them.

I meant to feel superior as in more manly, more macho, and there is pride in those feelings. So I guess that superiority is addressed more to men than women. I don't feel more righteous than anyone else, I might have more faith than some, but that's about it.

 

 

who might you have more faith than? someone who owns a gun and is willing to use it? 

 

that would be self righteous condemnation, so i hope that's not what your comment meant.

 

why do you assume that people who own a gun feel that they are superior, more manly, more macho, or more prideful than you? why do you attribute such ungodly and self-centered motives to people who don't agree with your opinion? it's not the gun owners in this thread that are giving that impression or making those kinds of statements. the only thing the gun owners in this thread are trying to point out is that owning a gun for protection or otherwise is NOT unbiblical.

 

sevenseas may be right. it may be a time out is overdue. 

[Sevenseas]

Lady C...the reason I said what I said, is because I think some are too invested here and have lost their objectivity

 

I do not see Hall saying what you seem to think he is saying....

 

 

perhaps it is time to cook a few marshmellows...emphasis on the mellows...over the fire   

 

ducking down now............

 

came back to add:

 

I am starting to be of the conviction this thread is not about guns at all...it is a personal subjective look at each other's faith and personal understanding

according to experience rather than objective acceptance of the fact that

 

we just ain't all the same but should understand and sometimes take a note from those with another viewpoint (not aimed at anyone personally, after all

I have taken part here too)

[Hall7]

hall, YOU were the one who raised the question, and i quote, "do you feel superior to own one". 

 

superior to what? to whom? given the context of your question and this discussion, it seems you can only mean do those who own guns feel superior to those who do not own guns.

 

i don't know how you have such trouble then, understanding the question in reverse. do you feel superior to those who own guns because you somehow think you are more righteous, more pious, more faithful than those who do?

 

YOU asked the original question. i just turned it back around on you. if you have such trouble understanding the question, maybe you shouldn't ask it.

I guess you're not explaining your questions correctly, or maybe I'm the one with trouble understanding them.

I meant to feel superior as in more manly, more macho, and there is pride in those feelings. So I guess that superiority is addressed more to men than women. I don't feel more righteous than anyone else, I might have more faith than some, but that's about it.

 

who might you have more faith than? someone who owns a gun and is willing to use it? 

 

that would be self righteous condemnation, so i hope that's not what your comment meant.

 

why do you assume that people who own a gun feel that they are superior, more manly, more macho, or more prideful than you? why do you attribute such ungodly and self-centered motives to people who don't agree with your opinion? it's not the gun owners in this thread that are giving that impression or making those kinds of statements. the only thing the gun owners in this thread are trying to point out is that owning a gun for protection or otherwise is NOT unbiblical.

 

sevenseas may be right. it may be a time out is overdue.

You know what, if you would take the time to slowly read my posts you would understand what I mean better. Now you are twisting my words around and sound like you are judging me. We could go on and on...so yeah, might as well close the thread while everyone had their last words in...

[Sevenseas]

yeah yeah...covered that for you Hall

 

would someone just breath please?

[Guest LadyC]

Lady C...the reason I said what I said, is because I think some are too invested here and have lost their objectivity

 

I do not see Hall saying what you seem to think he is saying....

 

 

perhaps it is time to cook a few marshmellows...emphasis on the mellows...over the fire   

 

ducking down now............

 

came back to add:

 

I am starting to be of the conviction this thread is not about guns at all...it is a personal subjective look at each other's faith and personal understanding

according to experience rather than objective acceptance of the fact that

 

we just ain't all the same but should understand and sometimes take a note from those with another viewpoint (not aimed at anyone personally, after all

I have taken part here too)

 

if you've kept up with this thread, then i'm sure you have seen my discussion with firestorm. that should be plenty of evidence that i have not lost my objectivity. i actually seem to be the only one here trying to encourage people to BE objective. maybe because i'm the only one without a gun in this fight... pun intended.

 

but i agree, it seems like this thread keeps turning into attacks on faith. attacks on the faith (or presumed lack thereof) of gun owners. the gun owners in this thread are defending their faith, and at times their frustration is coming through loud and clear. i can't blame them. they're being accused of not relying on God. they're being accused of not having enough faith. they're being accused of feeling superior. (ok, not accused, but hall did ask if gun owners feel superior, which really is a passive aggressive accusation, whether you see it as such or not.)

[Guest LadyC]

hall, please show me where i twisted your words. YOU asked if gun owners felt superior. I asked if non-gun owners felt superior. i didn't twist anything, i turned your question around and asked you the same thing.

 

throughout this thread, whether it is you or others, has been the underlying theme that christians who own guns lack faith, live violent lives, and follow worldy standards. please don't pretend that isn't so.

[firestormx]

 

 

does it say that it's bad to die by the sword even in the context of the scripture...   I've pondered on that for some number of years.

Interesting thought, never thought of it like that. However, I look at this way. Jesus is the example we are to follow. Jesus was never violent. Now some may say, hold up a minute, what about when Jesus made the whip, and overturned the money changers tables. wasn't that violent? I say no it was not a violent act, and I'll give you 2 reasons why. 1st, even the pharisees response wasn't about violence but " what sign is this that you show us"? Even the pharisees who had opposed Jesus at every turn recognized it as a sign. A sign, a divinely inspired act (Which by the way is what I've been saying is the only exception) and not a violent act. 2nd, When Jesus was buried, he was put in a rich mans tomb....why? The bible says because it was to fulfill Isaiah 53:9, which says he was buried with the rich because he had done no violence. So back to my point, Jesus never responded with violence and neither did the 12. from the book of Acts onward. Jesus said we are in a new covenant, which included turning the other check, not responding with an eye for an eye, which Jesus said we are not to do.

 

Simply put, motive I think is irrelevant. We are to be known by our love, not because we respond with violence.

 

I don't know about dying from the sword being bad, but David couldn't build the Temple of God because of violence,    so clearly there are consequences for violence.

 

Interesting thought, you'll have me thinking on that one for a while. lol 

 

 

1 Kings 5:2 And Solomon sent to Hiram, saying,

5:3 "Thou knowest how that David my father could not build an house unto the name of the LORD his God for the wars which were about him on every side, until the LORD put them under the soles of his feet.

5:4 But now the LORD my God hath given me rest on every side, so that there is neither adversary nor evil occurrent.

 

It seems to me that David could not build the temple because of all the violence around him having to defend Israel........   personally I don't see the problem as him being a violent person, but too busy violently defending the people.

 

however he did have that one murder on his hands, even though he didn't actually commit it himself.

 

I got the idea from the verse below

 

1 Chronicles 28:3

 But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.

[Guest LadyC]

firestorm, you are absolutely right, ya know. david was not allowed to build the temple for that very reason. but God still favored Him. He had called Him to be a mighty warrior, and that was a bloody calling. it's kinda ironic in a way that the very thing that God called him to do was the same thing that prevented him from being able to show his love for God by building a temple.