Why I am Premillennial not Amillennial

[Sevenseas]

...sure sounds like it....  

 

 

 

Forgive me, I have said too much already.

 

oh no...please...do continue.....

[finestofthewheat]

Are you saying there that people that don't believe in a pre-trib rapture won't be raptured out if a pre-trib rapture occurs? If so, I would like to know why it would matter what one believes on a timeline of Christ's Return would have to do with being taken, or made to stay....and some scripture stating that.

Hippie333,

 

Jesus is looking for a people who will reign over the nations for 1000 years. Not all Christians or resting saints from the OT are ready to do this. Those alive at the first rapture who are not ready will not be taken, but shall pass through the Tribulation if alive at that time. This is a great loss for 1000 years is a long time. When you ask me why it matters whether you hold a false teaching about the rapture and who is raptured or when Jesus returns, not only does God judge your false teaching but the reason behind your false teaching in what is wrong with your heart towards Jesus. Since you reject those first raptured according to readiness accusing them day and night (Rev. 12.10), God takes notice of this whether it is because you are really not saved or because you are not a spiritual Christian but a carnal one, thus not ready yourself to be received and will not receive the reward of returning with Christ to reign over the nations for 1000 years.

[Hippie333]

 

Are you saying there that people that don't believe in a pre-trib rapture won't be raptured out if a pre-trib rapture occurs? If so, I would like to know why it would matter what one believes on a timeline of Christ's Return would have to do with being taken, or made to stay....and some scripture stating that.

Hippie333,

 

Jesus is looking for a people who will reign over the nations for 1000 years. Not all Christians or resting saints from the OT are ready to do this. Those alive at the first rapture who are not ready will not be taken, but shall pass through the Tribulation if alive at that time. This is a great loss for 1000 years is a long time. When you ask me why it matters whether you hold a false teaching about the rapture and who is raptured or when Jesus returns, not only does God judge your false teaching but the reason behind your false teaching in what is wrong with your heart towards Jesus. Since you reject those first raptured according to readiness accusing them day and night (Rev. 12.10), God takes notice of this whether it is because you are really not saved or because you are not a spiritual Christian but a carnal one, thus not ready yourself to be received and will not receive the reward of returning with Christ to reign over the nations for 1000 years.

 

Missed the point of the question I asked, and also did not provide scripture supporting -two raptures - anything that requires us to be anything other than "ready".  Secondly, you are now questioning my salvation - who I am as a Christian - where I am as a Christian.  I did not support holding "any" false teaching - I am making the point that where a person is in their understanding of where / when the rapture/ post-trib/ pre-trib/ amill. / premill. - affects ones salvation.....Seems to me one should be more concerned with "being ready" to go - instead of knowing when we go. Your statement above also would make you the absolute authority on Revelation - because if I disagree with your timeline- how you say it happens - I hold to a false teaching. The only reason I made my initial post and still the question I ask - does knowing when the rapture occurs - affect you being part of the rapture....and supporting scripture?

 

 

God Bless,

Hip

[OneLight]

Are you saying there that people that don't believe in a pre-trib rapture won't be raptured out if a pre-trib rapture occurs? If so, I would like to know why it would matter what one believes on a timeline of Christ's Return would have to do with being taken, or made to stay....and some scripture stating that.

Hippie333,

 

Jesus is looking for a people who will reign over the nations for 1000 years.

 

Jesus already knows who will reign with Him for the 1000 years and who will not.  He is not "looking" for anyone.  He knows.

 

Not all Christians or resting saints from the OT are ready to do this. Those alive at the first rapture who are not ready will not be taken, but shall pass through the Tribulation if alive at that time.

 

There is only one "rapture" or being caught up.  Scripture, in now way what-so-ever, supports multiple "raptures".

 

This is a great loss for 1000 years is a long time. When you ask me why it matters whether you hold a false teaching about the rapture and who is raptured or when Jesus returns, not only does God judge your false teaching but the reason behind your false teaching in what is wrong with your heart towards Jesus. Since you reject those first raptured according to readiness accusing them day and night (Rev. 12.10), God takes notice of this whether it is because you are really not saved or because you are not a spiritual Christian but a carnal one, thus not ready yourself to be received and will not receive the reward of returning with Christ to reign over the nations for 1000 years.

 

You will first have to supple scripture showing multiple raptures, not multiple scripture speaking of one rapture.  I do not agree with the above quote one bit.  There is no second or third chance after death.  If anyone who has died is not ready to be with Christ, they never will be.

 

Hebrews 9:27

 

And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment

 

 

Remember, how you judge others is how you will be judged.  Yes, God does take notice of even our thoughts ...

[finestofthewheat]

provide scripture supporting -two raptures - anything that requires us to be anything other than "ready". Secondly, you are now questioning my salvation - who I am as a Christian - where I am as a Christian. I did not support holding "any" false teaching - I am making the point that where a person is in their understanding of where / when the rapture/ post-trib/ pre-trib/ amill. / premill. - affects ones salvation.....Seems to me one should be more concerned with "being ready" to go - instead of knowing when we go. Your statement above also would make you the absolute authority on Revelation - because if I disagree with your timeline- how you say it happens - I hold to a false teaching. The only reason I made my initial post and still the question I ask - does knowing when the rapture occurs - affect you being part of the rapture....and supporting scripture?

Hippie333,

 

There is a rapture before the Tribulation as seen in Rev. 3.10, Luke 21.36 and Matt. 24.40-42 which is according to readiness. It takes place Rev. 7.9 before the 1st trumpet is blown in 8.7. And there is a rapture at the start of the 7th trumpet as seen in 1 Thess. 4.14-18, 1 Cor. 15.50-52 and Rev. 11.15. The 7th trumpet lasts 24 months after which time Jesus steps down on earth. The latter is the general rapture and resurrection according to completion. The former is the advanced party that was prayerful and watchful.

 

It's difficult to accept someone as a Christian if they reject the Jesus who returns to reign on earth for 1000 years (see Jude 14,15; Zech. 14.4, Acts. 1.11; Rev. 1.7, 2.26,27; 20.4-6).

[finestofthewheat]

Jesus already knows who will reign with Him for the 1000 years and who will not. He is not "looking" for anyone. He knows.

 

OneLight,

 

Of course Jesus knows who will reign with Him for 1000 years on earth, for He is all knowing. These are the ones He looks for seeing their free choice. So the choice remains with you to be watchful and prayerful to escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world and be included with this who return with Christ to reign over the nations 1000 years.

 

1000 years is a long time to lose this reward.

[OneLight]

"The LORD will mediate between nations and will settle international disputes. They will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will no longer fight against nation, nor train for war anymore" (Is. 2.4). There won't be international disputes in eternity future, only in the millennial kingdom. And in the millennial kingdom there will no longer being nations fighting. That's not happening now.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Let's look at this verse in context. Isaiah 2:2-4

 

Now it shall come to pass in the latter days

That the mountain of the Lord’s house

Shall be established on the top of the mountains,

And shall be exalted above the hills;

And all nations shall flow to it.

Many people shall come and say,

"Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,

To the house of the God of Jacob;

He will teach us His ways,

And we shall walk in His paths.”

For out of Zion shall go forth the law,

And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

He shall judge between the nations,

And rebuke many people;

They shall beat their swords into plowshares,

And their spears into pruning hooks;

Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,

Neither shall they learn war anymore.

You will have to provide scripture and explain what it means to you, since you have made one statement and then another with only a reference.

 

"No more shall there be in it an infant that lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the child shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed" (Is. 65.20). Children die quickly through malnutrition or from being born into sin. Children will not die in eternity future. So this time spoken of if not now or eternity future, must be the future millennial kingdom. 10,000 children die of starvation every day or from other abuse.

When anyone looks at just one verse, anyone can make it sound what they want. If you had started at Isaiah 65:17, you would of have the full picture.

 

“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;

And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;

For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,

And her people a joy.

I will rejoice in Jerusalem,

And joy in My people;

The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,

Nor the voice of crying.

No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,

Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;

For the child shall die one hundred years old,

But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.

They shall build houses and inhabit them;

They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

They shall not build and another inhabit;

They shall not plant and another eat;

For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,

And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

They shall not labor in vain,

Nor bring forth children for trouble;

For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord,

And their offspring with them.

It shall come to pass

That before they call, I will answer;

And while they are still speaking, I will hear.

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,

The lion shall eat straw like the ox,

And dust shall be the serpent’s food.

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,”

Says the Lord.

"For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea" (Hab. 2.14). This is certainly not the condition today. Most people I speak to reject the Lord.

1) How can Satan be the "god of this world" (2 Cor. 4.4), "prince of the air" (Eph. 2.2) and "ruler of this world" (John 12.31) if he is sealed in the pit for 1000 years (Rev. 20.3)?

2) How can Christians be reigning today "over the nations" with a "rod of iron" (Rev. 2.26,27) if we are being martyred daily?

3) How can there be two rulers, those who "overcometh" (Rev. 2.26) reigning "with Christ" (20.4), "with Him" (v.6), for 1000 years if Satan is "ruler of this world" now also?

4) If the nations are not deceived in the 1000 years where Satan can "deceive the nations no more, till the 1000 years is finished" (Rev. 20.3), how can the 1000 years be now since 10,000 children die every day due to starvation and we continue to hear of wars and rumors of wars?

5) What would prevent the gospel of salvation being distributed to the nations so they would be deceived again when Satan is let out for a short while at the end of the 1000 years? Surely everyone in all the nations can continue to hear the gospel to be saved even if Satan were let out of the pit otherwise that would give credence to Calvinism.

6) When a person dies they go to soul sleep; if saved, to the good side of Hades, Abraham's bosom, waiting to be resurrected at the "last trumpet" (1 Cor. 15.50-52; 1 Thess. 4.14-18). How can those who "overcometh" be reigning over the nations today if they are asleep? There is no party going on in Heaven right now of the resurrected saved.

1 Thess. 4 says, "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and left unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God ('at the last trumpet' 1 Cor. 15.52): and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and left shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words" (vv.14-18).

I have no idea why you are making your points since nobody has said anything against them?!? 

 

As for "soul sleep", that is just an unsupported theory some hold to.  Scripture says otherwise.

 

Ecclesiastes 12:1-8

 

Remember now your Creator in the days of your youth,

Before the difficult days come,

And the years draw near when you say,

“I have no pleasure in them”:

While the sun and the light,

The moon and the stars,

Are not darkened,

And the clouds do not return after the rain;

In the day when the keepers of the house tremble,

And the strong men bow down;

When the grinders cease because they are few,

And those that look through the windows grow dim;

When the doors are shut in the streets,

And the sound of grinding is low;

When one rises up at the sound of a bird,

And all the daughters of music are brought low.

Also they are afraid of height,

And of terrors in the way;

When the almond tree blossoms,

The grasshopper is a burden,

And desire fails.

For man goes to his eternal home,

And the mourners go about the streets.

Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed,

Or the golden bowl is broken,

Or the pitcher shattered at the fountain,

Or the wheel broken at the well.

Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,

And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

“Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher,

“All is vanity.”

 

2 Corinthians 5:6-8

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

[OneLight]

 

Jesus already knows who will reign with Him for the 1000 years and who will not. He is not "looking" for anyone. He knows.

OneLight,

 

Of course Jesus knows who will reign with Him for 1000 years on earth, for He is all knowing. These are the ones He looks for seeing their free choice. So the choice remains with you to be watchful and prayerful to escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world and be included with this who return with Christ to reign over the nations 1000 years.

 

1000 years is a long time to lose this reward.

 

 

Actually, that is not true.  Those who will reign with Christ are spoken of in Revelation 20:1-6

 

Satan Bound 1,000 Years

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

You notice that those "who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished."

 

Only those who die for Christ during the Tribulation will reign with Christ.  Nowhere else in scripture do we read about anyone else who will reign. IF there is, then I have missed in in the many years of studies. Would you show me the verses?

[finestofthewheat]

How do you use the quote function as I can't get your text to go into the box to quote? I have to do it by copying and pasting manually which is annoying.

 

Those who will reign with Christ are spoken of in Revelation 20:1-6

 

OneLight,

 

That's correct.

 

Not everyone in Rev. 20.4-6 are martyred. Read. Rev. 2.26,27.

 

Those first raptured according to readiness are included.

Edited October 23, 2014 by finestofthewheat

[justfaith]

 

It will be strange when a couple million people are raptured and the amillennialists try to rationalize it away. Perhaps they will consider it evil. The evil ones were taken, they'll say.

 

When they see construction on the 3rd Temple begin in Jerusalem a couple years before Daniel's final seven, what will be there emotional response? Will they embrace it or become more hostile?

 

Ezekiel on his side predicted exactly to the month and year when Israel would become a nation again, and it happened May 1948. That's almost amazing as Daniel's prophecy when he said when Jesus would be cut off or the prophecy of the Tetrads needing to be completed before the 7 year peace treaty can take place. Anyone predicting when the final seven would take place needed to take into account Rev. 6.12 must occur (all 3 events in order) before Daniel's final seven.

 

Forgive me, I have said too much already.

Shalom  finestofthewheat

Your Quote from above:

It will be strange when a couple million people are raptured and the amillennialists try to rationalize it away. Perhaps they will consider it evil. The evil ones were taken, they'll say.

 

Are you saying there that people that don't believe in a pre-trib rapture won't be raptured out if a pre-trib rapture occurs? If so, I would like to know why it would matter what one believes on a timeline of Christ's Return would have to do with being taken, or made to stay....and some scripture stating that.

 

God Bless,

Hip

 

When the tribulation takes place and the pre rature people realize that they would blapheme God because they were not prepare thus were the foolish virgins