Please explain John 3:5

[zhavoney]

5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

I was told this doesn't not refer to water baptism. Can some one explain to me what it means to be born of water??

 

 

It is referring to the baptism with water and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

I was told this doesn't not refer to water baptism. Can some one explain to me what it means to be born of water??

 

 

It is referring to the baptism with water and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

It is not referring to baptism in any sense.    Part of our problem is that we are trying to read our traditions retro-actively back into the Bible without giving any consideration for historical propriety.   Neither the baptism of the Holy Spirit nor Christian baptism were in existence when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus and so would not have entered the mind Nicodemus.

 

Trying to force baptism on to John 3:5 is simply sloppy biblical interpretation.

[disciplehelovestoo]

Mar 1:14-15 KJV

(14)  Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

(15)  And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

 

the repentance Jesus preached was not 'stop that sinning'; but to believe the gospel

 

Act 20:24 KJV

(24)  But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

 

1Jn 2:1-3 KJV

(1)  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

(2)  And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

(3)  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

 

 

the gospel is that sinful thoughts and actions have been paid for, and that we are to approach God based in faith in His grace regardless of our performance.  this is what John the Baptist meant for the people of Israel to repent of - believing that they could justify themselves before God based on their own righteousness through the law of Moses - this was the trap that the people of Israel had fallen into at that time; believing that ritual sacrifices could justify them before God.

 

Act 11:16 KJV

(16)  Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

 

'but' is a special word; it means that while what precedes the word 'but' is factual, the Truth that follows the word 'but' renders ineffective those facts that preceded the word 'but'.

 

Act 13:21-24 KJV

(21)  And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.

(22)  And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

(23)  Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

(24)  When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

 

Rom 8:12-14 KJV

(12)  Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

(13)  For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

(14)  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

John's water baptism was for the people of Israel, not the whole world - it was the final ritual to end (cause repentance of) ritualistic worship of God, and instead worship God by being led by Him through fellowship with Him.

 

Luk 13:1-9 KJV

(1)  There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

(2)  And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

(3)  I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

(4)  Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

(5)  I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

(6)  He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

(7)  Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

(8)  And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:

(9)  And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

 

Jesus plainly tells the disciples that excessive sinning did not cause the suffering of the Galileans or those on whom the tower of Siloam fell - but then tells them that if they don't repent, they will likewise perish; so if excessive sin wasn't the cause, what did Jesus intend for them to repent of?  being led by their own intellect and understanding, instead of being led by God...

[zhavoney]

 

 

5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

I was told this doesn't not refer to water baptism. Can some one explain to me what it means to be born of water??

 

 

It is referring to the baptism with water and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

It is not referring to baptism in any sense.    Part of our problem is that we are trying to read our traditions retro-actively back into the Bible without giving any consideration for historical propriety.   Neither the baptism of the Holy Spirit nor Christian baptism were in existence when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus and so would not have entered the mind Nicodemus.

 

Trying to force baptism on to John 3:5 is simply sloppy biblical interpretation.

 

The scripture means what it says for the fact that no one is saved until they are filled or baptized with Gods Holy Spirit. Call it what you will but the meaning is the same.  Whether anyone is saved without water baptism is yet to be seen by the final outcome . But why take the Chance. Christ is our example and it is enough that a disciple be like his Master.

 

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

[zhavoney]

Matthew 10:25 It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. 

 

 

 

.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

I was told this doesn't not refer to water baptism. Can some one explain to me what it means to be born of water??

 

 

It is referring to the baptism with water and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

It is not referring to baptism in any sense.    Part of our problem is that we are trying to read our traditions retro-actively back into the Bible without giving any consideration for historical propriety.   Neither the baptism of the Holy Spirit nor Christian baptism were in existence when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus and so would not have entered the mind Nicodemus.

 

Trying to force baptism on to John 3:5 is simply sloppy biblical interpretation.

 

The scripture means what it says for the fact that no one is saved until they are filled or baptized with Gods Holy Spirit.

We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit the moment we are saved (Rom. 6:3-4).  Being filled with the Holy Spirit is a post conversion experience and refers to being controlled by the Holy Spirit.

 

John 3:5 is not talking about water baptism and there is nothing in the verse to suggest that it is. 

 

Call it what you will but the meaning is the same.  Whether anyone is saved without water baptism is yet to be seen by the final outcome .

 

Wrong.  That is sloppy theology.   The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, not through baptism. 

 

 

But why take the Chance. Christ is our example and it is enough that a disciple be like his Master.

 

By that logic, I should be raising the dead and calming storms by the word of my mouth.    The truth is that we are baptized because it is an ordinance given by Jesus AFTER His resurrection.  I am not taking a chance, because my faith is in Jesus, not in baptism, for my salvation.   If you are trusting baptism for salvation, you are going to be disappointed after you die when you hear the words from Jesus,  "Depart from me...  for I never knew you."

 

Salvation by baptism is a false Gospel and should be rejected by TRUE Christian followers of Jesus.

[Sister]

5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

I was told this doesn't not refer to water baptism. Can some one explain to me what it means to be born of water??

Judas Machabeus

 

Born of water is being born out of your mothers womb.  This is how we come into the world.  (Born the first time).

Born of the spirit is when we are resurrected or quickened at the coming.  (Born again)

Given a new spiritual body.

 

Unless we are in that resurrection, we cannot enter the kingdom of God.  

 

 

It has nothing to do with Water Baptism.

 

The renewal of the spirit is just putting on the new man, cleaning out our temples and making it holy.

This has to be a requirement and there are other scriptures explaining this.

But Jesus was speaking much deeper here.

We have to be physically changed to spirit to receive our inheritance.

[Guest Teditis]

 

 

 

 

5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

I was told this doesn't not refer to water baptism. Can some one explain to me what it means to be born of water??

 

 

It is referring to the baptism with water and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

It is not referring to baptism in any sense.    Part of our problem is that we are trying to read our traditions retro-actively back into the Bible without giving any consideration for historical propriety.   Neither the baptism of the Holy Spirit nor Christian baptism were in existence when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus and so would not have entered the mind Nicodemus.

 

Trying to force baptism on to John 3:5 is simply sloppy biblical interpretation.

 

The scripture means what it says for the fact that no one is saved until they are filled or baptized with Gods Holy Spirit.

We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit the moment we are saved (Rom. 6:3-4).  Being filled with the Holy Spirit is a post conversion experience and refers to being controlled by the Holy Spirit.

 

John 3:5 is not talking about water baptism and there is nothing in the verse to suggest that it is. 

 

Call it what you will but the meaning is the same.  Whether anyone is saved without water baptism is yet to be seen by the final outcome .

 

Wrong.  That is sloppy theology.   The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, not through baptism. 

 

 

But why take the Chance. Christ is our example and it is enough that a disciple be like his Master.

 

By that logic, I should be raising the dead and calming storms by the word of my mouth.    The truth is that we are baptized because it is an ordinance given by Jesus AFTER His resurrection.  I am not taking a chance, because my faith is in Jesus, not in baptism, for my salvation.   If you are trusting baptism for salvation, you are going to be disappointed after you die when you hear the words from Jesus,  "Depart from me...  for I never knew you."

 

Salvation by baptism is a false Gospel and should be rejected by TRUE Christian followers of Jesus.

 

 

I agree that we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ alone and not by works (like baptism).

And furthermore, I do believe that it is a false teaching and misconstrues the Gospel message.

It confuses and divides the church.

We are to be obedient to the command to be baptized because works are part of Sanctification;

fruits that we bear following salvation.

 

But I'd hesitate to say that Jesus would tell someone to "Depart...", just because they mistakenly added

water baptism to the saving process while they still maintained the prerequisite faith in Christ alone as

their Redeemer and Lord.

We can be wrong and even misguided about Scripture and still be saved... only Christ will judge.

IMHO.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Teditis

[Sister]

Judas Machabeus

 

Here is a scripture that might help put it into perspective a bit more.

 

 

 1 Corinthians 15:50   Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 

 

 

We have to be spirit to inherit the kingdom of God,

after the change which happens at the resurrection.of the saints at Christ's coming.

 

No flesh and blood can inherit.

If one remains flesh and blood at the coming, then he has not been accepted.into the kingdom.

We have to be Born again.

Born of the Spirit.

changed first.

then we enter.

 

Heaven does not cater for fleshly creatures, but for spiritual only,

 

 

 

 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Judas...

    Jesus is the Living Water,,,,,,,he explained to the woman at the well that she would never thirst with the water he offers,,,,,,,,,

 

John 4:14 - But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

 We are born again through our faith in Christ Jesus,the Living Waters........He gives us His Holy Spirit & we are born of Water & of Spirit

There is no works that we need to accomplish,no ritual or tradition we are required to perform,Jesus did it all for us on the cross & onto His resurrection......His work is "finished work".......and by Grace we are Saved through Him

                                                                                                                             With love-in Christ,Kwik

Having a water baptism to declare or proclaim ones Faith is a very nice way to celebrate Salvation with others but if one thinks that is a way to secure a"part" of their Salvation that is just not so........Christ gave us His Blessed Assurance that the ONLY Way to the Father is through Him,.......