Wealth in Christianity

[enoob57]

yes sir! I was having some trouble in posting... it took forever and then is partially did so...

here it is in the full of it:

This always before me

Matt 6:19-23

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt,

and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in

heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break

through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body

shall be full of light. 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of

darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

KJV

Matt 6:24

24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other;

or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

KJV

Working out my salvation in fear and trembling is to the affect of this-

Jer 17:9-11

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to

his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. 11 As the partridge sitteth on eggs,

and hatcheth them not; so he that getteth riches, and not by right, shall leave them in

the midst of his days, and at his end shall be a fool.

KJV

How can a man who works daily and spends his time protecting... >it being< of self

investment and not treasure the produce? For The Lord did not make a false reality

here not to adhere to-

Luke 18:25-27

25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to

enter into the kingdom of God. 26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?

27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

KJV

Really God is saying it is impossible for those of wealth >do to the wealth itself and

what is evolved in attaining it< to be saved... astounded at this prompts the disciples

to quarry "who can be saved"... thus my council to all even in this place do not store

up riches as there is great danger in doing so! Love, Steven

[Sevenseas]

Enoob, again, this applies to those who put their trust in money and put their money where their heart is

 

According to your posts, no wealthy person will ever be saved...at least that is how I understand what you appear to say

 

If that is so, I will disagree.  That, is not in scripture.

 

It is the heart that is being dealt with...again, please remember that you seem to be saying no rich person ever entered or will enter heaven

 

Remember Job...God even restored his wealth...so, yuh know, I disagree with what you state, not negating the verses, but I think you are overextending the intension

and meaning..

 

Storing up riches will not save a person, but neither will getting rid of all that they have.  There is only one route to salvation 

[Openly Curious]

This passage in Luke has been bothering me for a long time.

 

 

18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

18:21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

18:24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Is it a sin to have money, or a lot of money? Does 18:22 give us an absolute commandment--if we have any money or property at all, are we required to give it all away? Or was Jesus just speaking to this one individual?

 

I was taught that being rich isn't a sin, but being stingy and hoarding wealth is, and that if you can afford to give charitably more than the 10% tithe, you should. Is that an accurate interpretation of these verses?

The jist of it is that a man's life doesn't consist in the things he posesses as a persons wealth cannot sustain their life forever in this earth no matter how little or how much they have. For all will face a physical death one day and a person wealth will be useless at that time to sustain them. It is Jesus alone that gives eternal life to those who puts their trust in him and follows him in this life for Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. "Eternal" life is found in Jesus Christ and not in our personal wealth that we may or may not possess in this world.

[enoob57]

Enoob, again, this applies to those who put their trust in money and put their money where their heart is

This where I spoke of Jer 17:9 and only God knows for sure the truth of our heart! We

may say we do- but you won't find that in the Bible... there are plenty of warnings

about standing in our own understanding and foundations and we are told not to do this-

1 Cor 10:11-12

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our

admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh

he standeth take heed lest he fall

KJV

1 Cor 8:1-2

8 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge

puffeth up, but charity edifieth. 2 And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he

knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

KJV

so not knowing our hearts would you say it is safe to say The Lord says do not

love it and the test is to give it all away... so then not keeping it but investing everyday

in that of giving to others and Church a safeguard in desiring to have a heart like Jesus'?

 

According to your posts, no wealthy person will ever be saved...at least that is how I understand what you appear to say

If that is so, I will disagree. That, is not in scripture.

According to Scripture we are not to love this world nor the things in the world! If any man

does-> the love of God is not in them 1Jn 2:15 How do we determine this in ourselves?

Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5 shows us the extent of purview God Himself testifies of... As everyone was giving

all then this- they wanted the appearance of but not the total commitment! Would you say they loved their $ ?

 

It is the heart that is being dealt with...again, please remember that you seem to be saying no rich person ever entered or will enter heaven

If you are comfortable working an focusing on gaining wealth and that investment of your life energies is in

no way a heart attachment toward anything of that investment... ok! I am not that self assured of my motives

in this flesh so I guard myself by making it of no consequence now in the daily living... I am constantly

reminded of the Scripture of those who rested in their own merit of heart understanding yet-

Matt 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but

he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day,

Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in

thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:

depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

KJV

Truly a fearful thing to stand in one own securities...

 

Remember Job...God even restored his wealth...so, yuh know, I disagree with what you state, not negating the verses, but I think you are overextending the intension

and meaning..

I explained to you why I believe we cannot use OT examples toward wealth brought forward today as they did not have

the Revelation of NT teaching of all God is going to do unto eternity...

Luke 12:48

48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.

For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much,

of him they will ask the more.

KJV

as we have the full revelation of what God 'IS' keeping and what He 'IS' not keeping let us be a people

who put value into the eternal things and not waste our time in piling up what God 'IS' not keeping...

while the Church or the unsaved around us have lack! Let us invest the worthless into The Spirit's

leading to reap eternal worth for The Glory of God

Storing up riches will not save a person, but neither will getting rid of all that they have. There is only one route to salvation

That route as I understand it-is to have the Person of God within you The Spirit of Christ... thus

the attitude of Jesus in His Own Body so now also same in ours... and His Spirit bears witness with

our spirit that we are the children of God. I see the giving away of things nothing compared to the

benefit of Glory God will receive in the end by the living of His Spirit in the lives of us all by

the doing

[udx]

There are a lot of Rich people in the Bible that are faithful servant of God. Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Job, David, Solomon. All are rich and are blessed. Nothing wrong with being wealthy, how you use the wealth reflect what your relationship with God is, and that is what matters.

[Sevenseas]

There are a lot of Rich people in the Bible that are faithful servant of God. Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Job, David, Solomon. All are rich and are blessed. Nothing wrong with being wealthy, how you use the wealth reflect what your relationship with God is, and that is what matters.

 

 

That is my understanding 

[Sevenseas]

 

 

I explained to you why I believe we cannot use OT examples toward wealth brought forward today as they did not have

the Revelation of NT teaching of all God is going to do unto eternity...

 

Well, that is how you perceive it.  You expressed your understanding, but I do not think that understanding reflects what scripture actually states.

 

I would like to remind you that it does not matter what we do, our righteousness will never satisfy the righteousness of God

 

 

 

According to Scripture we are not to love this world nor the things in the world! If any man

does-> the love of God is not in them 1Jn 2:15 How do we determine this in ourselves?

Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5 shows us the extent of purview God Himself testifies of... As everyone was giving

all then this- they wanted the appearance of but not the total commitment! Would you say they loved their $ ?

 

 

 They lied to the Holy Spirit...THAT was their sin.  Peter told them that they could have kept ALL the proceeds from the sale of their land.

You are really reading into things here IMO...the sin was not about money...it was their hearts in that they lied to the Holy Spirit....read the story again

and you will see that is so.  He didn't tell them to give away everything...it seems pretty clear that having the money was not the issue at all.  The

lie with what they actually did with the money was the issue.  If having money was sin, don't you think Peter missed a great opportunity to tell us

all that?

 

Why are you attemtping to draw a line between my statements and the love of money?  I have said no such thing. It seems to me you are looking to find

some fault in what I said but I never said any such thing!  You have attempted to prove that even having wealth is a sin and I do not find that you have

proven that at all.

 

You will not find any statement in scripture that will say being rich is a sin...what the Bible does deal with is the heart.  You cannot earn your way to

righteousness by good deeds or giving away everything you have.  Paul, in fact, confirms that very thing!  (see below for that quote)

 

Do you not understand that the entire time I have not one time said anything that would indicate that I think that the pursuit of wealth is a godly endeavor?

 

I would expect that the true understanding of wealth as expressed in the NT, is a HEART issue.  

 

Paul expressed it this way:

 

And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.  I Cor 13:3

 

 

I really have the view expressed here:....the article is balanced IMO and covers the negative aspects of wealth as well, but sums up the fact that no matter the issue, it

is always truly a heart issue and between the individual and God as no amount of self sacrifice will ever suffice or assure our salvation

 

God does not condemn anyone for having riches. Riches come to people from many sources, but He gives grave warnings to those who seek after them more than they seek after God and trust in them more than in God. His greatest desire is for us to set our hearts on things above and not on things on this earth. This may sound very high and unobtainable, but Paul wrote, “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” (Philippians 4:13 NKJV). The secret is knowing Christ as Savior and allowing the Holy Spirit to conform our minds and heart to His (Romans 12:1-2).

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/wealth-Christian.html#ixzz3HvXv94pV

 

We really cannot do anything to gain salvation enoob.  It is a gift and we are all, each of us, responsible for where we are in our walk with God.  

 

I think we have each expressed our views enough now  and I would like to move on.  Thanks

[enoob57]

I have not written to you in regard to salvation (as I already consider you a sister in Christ) but in sanctification

and in that light is my address... Love, Steven

[Sevenseas]

I have not written to you in regard to salvation (as I already consider you a sister in Christ) but in sanctification

and in that light is my address... Love, Steven

 

I will not be sanctified by becoming poor...if I were rich and gave it all away.

 

Sanctification [N] [T] [E]

The generic meaning of sanctification is "the state of proper functioning." To sanctify someone or something is to set that person or thing apart for the use intended by its designer. A pen is "sanctified" when used to write. Eyeglasses are "sanctified" when used to improve sight. In the theological sense, things are sanctified when they are used for the purpose God intends. A human being is sanctified, therefore, when he or she lives according to God's design and purpose.

The Greek word translated "sanctification" (hagiasmos [aJgiasmov"]) means "holiness." To sanctify, therefore, means "to make holy." In one sense only God is holy ( Isa 6:3 ). God is separate, distinct, other. No human being or thing shares the holiness of God's essential nature. There is one God. Yet Scripture speaks about holy things. Moreover, God calls human beings to be holyas holy as he is holy ( Lev 11:44 ; Matt 5:48 ; 1 Peter 1:15-16 ). Another word for a holy person is "saint" (hagios [a&gio"]), meaning a sanctified one. The opposite of sanctified is "profane" ( Lev 10:10 ).

 

 

Again, this is an inner process...there are poor Christains who are not sanctified.

I don't see where scritpure makes the defintions that you appear to be making.

 

I would state that as a part of sanctification I might feel led by the Holy Spirit to give away a fortune, if I had it......but there is no demand or command in scripture that I do so

 

Frankly, I think it is somewhat dangerous to add to what the Bible states.  

 

Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.  I Cor 4:6

 

 

 

If you are comfortable working an focusing on gaining wealth and that investment of your life energies is in

no way a heart attachment toward anything of that investment... ok! I am not that self assured of my motives

in this flesh so I guard myself by making it of no consequence now in the daily living... I am constantly

reminded of the Scripture of those who rested in their own merit of heart understanding yet-

 

Again, you have kind of ignored the fact that I never said one should pursue wealth...how is it you keep intimating that is what I do?

 

That, is actually what scripture warns against.

 

It's not a good discussion, IMO, when one person insists the other is saying something they have not said, do not think and do not tell others to do.

 

I think it's enough now.

[enoob57]

I have not written to you in regard to salvation (as I already consider you a sister in Christ) but in sanctification

and in that light is my address... Love, Steven

 

I will not be sanctified by becoming poor...if I were rich and gave it all away.

 

Sanctification %5BN%5D %5BT%5D %5BE%5D

The generic meaning of sanctification is "the state of proper functioning." To sanctify someone or something is to set that person or thing apart for the use intended by its designer. A pen is "sanctified" when used to write. Eyeglasses are "sanctified" when used to improve sight. In the theological sense, things are sanctified when they are used for the purpose God intends. A human being is sanctified, therefore, when he or she lives according to God's design and purpose.

The Greek word translated "sanctification" (hagiasmos [aJgiasmov"]) means "holiness." To sanctify, therefore, means "to make holy." In one sense only God is holy ( Isa 6:3 ). God is separate, distinct, other. No human being or thing shares the holiness of God's essential nature. There is one God. Yet Scripture speaks about holy things. Moreover, God calls human beings to be holyas holy as he is holy ( Lev 11:44 ; Matt 5:48 ; 1 Peter 1:15-16 ). Another word for a holy person is "saint" (hagios [a&gio"]), meaning a sanctified one. The opposite of sanctified is "profane" ( Lev 10:10 ).

 

 

Again, this is an inner process...there are poor Christains who are not sanctified.

I don't see where scritpure makes the defintions that you appear to be making.

Col 3:1-10

3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on

the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For

ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall

appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. 5 Mortify therefore your members which are

upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence,

and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the

children of disobedience: 7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out

of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

KJV

I would state this is the directive parameters of sanctification... 

I would state that as a part of sanctification I might feel led by the Holy Spirit to give away a fortune, if I had it......but there is no demand or command in scripture that I do so

Matt 6:30-34

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast

into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Therefore take no

thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye

have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;

and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for

the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

KJV

and when these things come to us that which God adds unto us (these needs)

Matt 6:19-21

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where

thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither

moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your

treasure is, there will your heart be also.

KJV

why Lord why not store it up

Matt 10:7-12

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the

lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither

gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats,

neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. 11 And into whatsoever

city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

KJV

this is the economic system of God upon this earth... and it is to be the walk of faith

Heb 11:1

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

KJV

 

Frankly, I think it is somewhat dangerous to add to what the Bible states.  

Please be more specific thanks! Love, Steven