Is Today, The Prophecy Of Iron & Clay ?

[Last Daze]

 

 

Yes I am. Its not a strong link, but Daniel 7, Revelation 13 and Revelation 17 all associate this ten-part kingdom with the final manifestation of worldly power before the day of the Lord. 

 

So it makes sense that the statue timeline of Daniel 2, which ends in ten toes, is also hinting at the same final ten toes before the stone (Jesus) destroys all these kingdoms.

 

 

I agree with you.  I just didn't want to assume.  I've heard someone put forth the notion that the ten horns of Daniel 7 were different from the ten horns of Rev 13,17.  Just wanted to make sure there wasn't a third set of "ten" somethings floating around out there, that is, if there are ten toes since we're never told how many there are but its a likely assumption that fits.

 

In that case, how do you see Rev 17:12 which says: The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. ?

 

 

I believe these ten final Middle Eastern kingdoms are currently being raised up to give Turkey power for the final years before the second coming.  The leaders are not yet in place, but some of the countries have already been established. 

 

 

Any thoughts on the "one hour" part, and the city they destroy during that one hour?

 

And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire....The woman (harlot) whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”  Revelation 17:16,18

[ARGOSY]

 

 

Any thoughts on the "one hour" part, and the city they destroy during that one hour?

 

And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire....The woman (harlot) whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”  Revelation 17:16,18

 

 

I just feel the one hour represents a short timeframe. possibly starting just prior to the great tribulation.

 

I believe that city represents Rome and its support base ... Europe.

[Last Daze]

In order for the "one hour" time frame given in Revelation to have any meaning I think it needs to be pretty close to....one hour.  A "short time frame" could mean anything.  It it were longer than one hour then why not use terms that reflect such, like day, week, month, etc.?

 

I'm not sure that I can see the European support of the Italian city of Rome to the point where it reigns over the kings of the earth and becomes the major port city as described in Rev 18...at least not any time in the near future.  I guess time will tell.

[Serving]

Hi Last Daze,

 

Im just going to answer your points one at a time so it doesn't get too big ..

 

 

 

 

I don't see it as contradictory and here's why...the fallen angels were taken out of their place of influence, and their respective kingdom went into a state of decline.  My guess is that they were cast into the abyss.  I don't see them as being released until possibly the first seal is opened.

 

Firstly ..

 

When the confrontation occurred between the angels, Media Persia was still in power for quite some time yet .. not only that, she prospered right up to the days of her coming against Greece .. that is not decline, but a progressive growth.

 

Media Persia still had four more kings to arise yet! So the fallen angel prince was still in business so to speak for quite a while yet .. again, no decline, in fact decline did not come, it was defeat at the hands of Alexander the great many years after the Gabriel event which broke her!

 

Q: So did the angel prince of Grecia eventually turn against and fight his own angel ally prince of Persia? Since they went to war?

 

No, of course not, a house divided falls, it is God bringing these kingdoms forth, not fallen angel princes ..

 

"Princes" .. remember .. Satan is their king don't forget .. so these princes can not bring any nation to power unless God deems it so .. which is another problem in what you stated.

 

Second ..

 

Furthermore, Grecia hadn't even taken her place as the next world power yet!!

 

So the prince of Grecia didn't go anywhere after that event either ..  nor was there any decline  .. because the kingdom he was attached to, Grecia,  had not yet risen to dominance through Alexander the great, and that kingdom was only at the beginning of its rise to true greatness, no decline here either ..

 

In fact these fallen angels are only princes, Satan is still king over all these nations, the princes rule in his name and by his leave .. all must still work within the guidelines God has permitted them too ..

 

So you see here also .. the fallen angel princes have no power to bring any kingdom into greatness either .. as you put forth .. because its all Gods doing, He raises kingdoms and brings them back down again, our Lord does that my friend!!

 

Some friendly advice ..

 

If you link Daniel ch 11 with Daniel ch 7 for starters .. you will see some of the beasts of ch 7 further explained with detail in ch 11, and those beasts are revealed as men and not fallen angels friend.

 

God bless.

   

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ARGOSY]

In order for the "one hour" time frame given in Revelation to have any meaning I think it needs to be pretty close to....one hour.  A "short time frame" could mean anything.  It it were longer than one hour then why not use terms that reflect such, like day, week, month, etc.?

 

I'm not sure that I can see the European support of the Italian city of Rome to the point where it reigns over the kings of the earth and becomes the major port city as described in Rev 18...at least not any time in the near future.  I guess time will tell.

 

Time will tell. I differ about the one hour, the Greek word "hora" means a fixed time period. Unfortunately the KJV used the word hour, but I prefer other translations which are more true to the actual meaning of the word "hora":

 

1. a certain definite time or season fixed by natural law and returning with the revolving year

   1. of the seasons of the year, spring, summer, autumn, winter

2. the daytime (bounded by the rising and setting of the sun), a day

3. a twelfth part of the day-time, an hour, (the twelve hours of the day are reckoned from the rising to the setting of the sun)

4. any definite time, point of time, moment

 

 

I know that the tenses in Greek are not the same as English tenses, but I believe this sentence could add strength to the view that the city is Rome:

18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

 

I  associate the woman with the Goddess Europa, the bible has the habit of using a country's own symbols to describe that country. Europa is carried away by Zeus, that European myth/symbol as found on EU coins and statues is the symbol of Europe being under the beast system of Rome. The bible uses the same imagery of the woman sitting on the beast, she is not the one in power. In the story its Zeus who carries her away, the beast /bull is in control. And so the economic power of Europe is reflected in the symbol of Europa, the woman.

[Last Daze]

Hi Last Daze,

 

Im just going to answer your points one at a time so it doesn't get too big ..

 

 

 

 

I don't see it as contradictory and here's why...the fallen angels were taken out of their place of influence, and their respective kingdom went into a state of decline.  My guess is that they were cast into the abyss.  I don't see them as being released until possibly the first seal is opened.

 

Firstly ..

 

When the confrontation occurred between the angels, Media Persia was still in power for quite some time yet .. not only that, she prospered right up to the days of her coming against Greece .. that is not decline, but a progressive growth.

 

Media Persia still had four more kings to arise yet! So the fallen angel prince was still in business so to speak for quite a while yet .. again, no decline, in fact decline did not come, it was defeat at the hands of Alexander the great many years after the Gabriel event which broke her!

 

Q: So did the angel prince of Grecia eventually turn against and fight his own angel ally prince of Persia? Since they went to war?

 

No, of course not, a house divided falls, it is God bringing these kingdoms forth, not fallen angel princes ..

 

"Princes" .. remember .. Satan is their king don't forget .. so these princes can not bring any nation to power unless God deems it so .. which is another problem in what you stated.

 

Second ..

 

Furthermore, Grecia hadn't even taken her place as the next world power yet!!

 

So the prince of Grecia didn't go anywhere after that event either ..  nor was there any decline  .. because the kingdom he was attached to, Grecia,  had not yet risen to dominance through Alexander the great, and that kingdom was only at the beginning of its rise to true greatness, no decline here either ..

 

In fact these fallen angels are only princes, Satan is still king over all these nations, the princes rule in his name and by his leave .. all must still work within the guidelines God has permitted them too ..

 

So you see here also .. the fallen angel princes have no power to bring any kingdom into greatness either .. as you put forth .. because its all Gods doing, He raises kingdoms and brings them back down again, our Lord does that my friend!!

 

Some friendly advice ..

 

If you link Daniel ch 11 with Daniel ch 7 for starters .. you will see some of the beasts of ch 7 further explained with detail in ch 11, and those beasts are revealed as men and not fallen angels friend.

 

God bless.

 

I think we're on different tracks.  Things will come into focus the closer we get.  I'm content to leave it at that.

Thanks for your replies.

[RevelationWriter]

- Maybe this will help:

 

"Just as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter's clay ad partly of Iron it shall be A Divided Kingdom

but some of the hardness of the Iron shall be in it, as you shall the Iron mixed with common clay.

Just as the toes of the feet were partly of Iron and partly clay so The Kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.

 

And just as you saw the Iron mixed with clay so will they Intermingle with one another in marriage but they will not hold together

just as Iron does not mix with clay." - Dan.2:4-43 [The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible from Hebrew]

 

- One Kingdom, Divided.

 

A King-dom Is The Dominion Of A King.

[Sister]

Any thoughts on the "one hour" part, and the city they destroy during that one hour?

 

And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire....The woman (harlot) whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”  Revelation 17:16,18

 

 

 

 

Hi Last Daze.

 

The beast and the False prophet will rule for only hour.  We know that this "one hour" is a very short time.  Three and a half years to be exact.  His headquarters will be Jerusalem.

Compare that to how long Rome ruled for -500 years or so.

 

 Daniel 12:7   And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

 

 Revelation 11:2   But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

 

So this hour, we know is 3 1/2 years.  It's just generalised like this because it's the last hour to midnight.  Then the end will come.

 

And then we have Christ destroying Babylon in one hour.  This will not take 3 1/2 years for him to do, but with the breath of his Word, in no time at all.  A very short time.

 

 

Then we have this scripture that you mentioned;

Revelation 17:16   And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

 

The whore is babylon the Great.  This is Satan's kingdom, and the way it is run.  It has laws and people's rights are semi-protected. Satan hates this.  It has a cash based system also (whats left of it)

Well he is going to change all this by using the False prophet and the beast to do his work.  These 10 kings and the false prophet will change the system, and give it a complete overhaul.

Firstly, there will be no laws to protect people's rights.  If you have no food or shelter, it's tough luck.

It will be dictatorship system, with Marshall Law.  No court hearing, but shot or taken to prison on the spot.

Secondly there will be no cash existing any more, it will be a cashless society that has been replaced with the micro-chip (mark of the beast), a good way to track everybody's movements.

and thirdly there will be no freedom of religion.  Must worship this new man.

 

But before they can bring about this change, they will bankrupt the world.  They have the power to do this because they are the financiers of the world (world banks).

They also control our food supplies & water.  Through their dark schemes (already at work) they will crash the world economy.  This will cause many to be out of work, food prices will sky rocket, resulting in famine, disease & Chaos.  This is their plan.  This is what God calls "eating the whores flesh".  Destroying her existing system only to be the ones to come in and "rescue" with a new system already planned a long time ago.  The 10 kings will be the so called "saviours of the world", and out of them will come the false prophet with all the answers and miracles that the people of the world have been waiting for.  He will come at the right time, during their need.  They will love him.

 

 

Revelation 6:5   And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

Revelation 6:6   And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

 

FAMINE IS COMING FIRST

 

 

 

Revelation 6:8   And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

MORE FAMINE AND DEATH WHEN HE SHOWS HIS TRUE COLORS AFTER RECEIVING POWER.  HE CAUSES THE 3RD WORLD WAR, LEAVING THE WORLD EVEN MORE DESTITUTE.

 

So Babylon (the whore) will have her existing system stripped, only to be replaced by a new system.

Also, many leaders and men in high places that Satan has used will be exposed for the part they play.  How else is he going to overthrow 3 kings?  I can only imagine that these 3 kings are powerful kings at the moment whom he has dangled in his hand as puppets.

After Satan uses them to achieve his purpose, he disposes of them, and brings them down in the worst way.  This is his style.  No love at all for his own.  In the end, he just needs his 10 kings and his False prophet and will do whatever it takes to get them and keep them there to serve his purpose,.

 

Hope this helps.

[Last Daze]

 

Any thoughts on the "one hour" part, and the city they destroy during that one hour?

 

And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire....The woman (harlot) whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”  Revelation 17:16,18

 

 

 

 

Hi Last Daze.

 

The beast and the False prophet will rule for only hour.  We know that this "one hour" is a very short time.  Three and a half years to be exact.  His headquarters will be Jerusalem.

Compare that to how long Rome ruled for -500 years or so.

 

 Daniel 12:7   And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

 

 Revelation 11:2   But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

 

So this hour, we know is 3 1/2 years.  It's just generalised like this because it's the last hour to midnight.  Then the end will come.

 

And then we have Christ destroying Babylon in one hour.  This will not take 3 1/2 years for him to do, but with the breath of his Word, in no time at all.  A very short time.

 

 

Then we have this scripture that you mentioned;

Revelation 17:16   And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

 

The whore is babylon the Great.  This is Satan's kingdom, and the way it is run.  It has laws and people's rights are semi-protected. Satan hates this.  It has a cash based system also (whats left of it)

Well he is going to change all this by using the False prophet and the beast to do his work.  These 10 kings and the false prophet will change the system, and give it a complete overhaul.

Firstly, there will be no laws to protect people's rights.  If you have no food or shelter, it's tough luck.

It will be dictatorship system, with Marshall Law.  No court hearing, but shot or taken to prison on the spot.

Secondly there will be no cash existing any more, it will be a cashless society that has been replaced with the micro-chip (mark of the beast), a good way to track everybody's movements.

and thirdly there will be no freedom of religion.  Must worship this new man.

 

But before they can bring about this change, they will bankrupt the world.  They have the power to do this because they are the financiers of the world (world banks).

They also control our food supplies & water.  Through their dark schemes (already at work) they will crash the world economy.  This will cause many to be out of work, food prices will sky rocket, resulting in famine, disease & Chaos.  This is their plan.  This is what God calls "eating the whores flesh".  Destroying her existing system only to be the ones to come in and "rescue" with a new system already planned a long time ago.  The 10 kings will be the so called "saviours of the world", and out of them will come the false prophet with all the answers and miracles that the people of the world have been waiting for.  He will come at the right time, during their need.  They will love him.

 

 

Revelation 6:5   And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

Revelation 6:6   And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

 

FAMINE IS COMING FIRST

 

 

 

Revelation 6:8   And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

MORE FAMINE AND DEATH WHEN HE SHOWS HIS TRUE COLORS AFTER RECEIVING POWER.  HE CAUSES THE 3RD WORLD WAR, LEAVING THE WORLD EVEN MORE DESTITUTE.

 

So Babylon (the whore) will have her existing system stripped, only to be replaced by a new system.

Also, many leaders and men in high places that Satan has used will be exposed for the part they play.  How else is he going to overthrow 3 kings?  I can only imagine that these 3 kings are powerful kings at the moment whom he has dangled in his hand as puppets.

After Satan uses them to achieve his purpose, he disposes of them, and brings them down in the worst way.  This is his style.  No love at all for his own.  In the end, he just needs his 10 kings and his False prophet and will do whatever it takes to get them and keep them there to serve his purpose,.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

If an "hour" is 3.5 years then why not use something that denotes 3.5 years like 1260 days, or 42 months, or time, times, and half a time?

 

1000 years is a "short time" compared to a million.  That's why saying it represents a "short time" is meaningless.

[seandavids]

my bible refers to the clay as the seed of men.

 

what other seed is there that has mixed with mankind