hamletcat Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 49 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/12/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 When I thought I was an atheist, my personal atonement for sin was to ask forgiveness to the person I hurt, and then do something to make it up to them. If that wasn't possible, ie. someone in my past that I no longer have contact with, then I would ask forgiveness from myself (my mind) and then make it up to mankind in some way. My understanding of the significance of Jesus's death is that his death was the "ultimate sacrifice." We gave up something very precious (Jesus) and because of that we are "square with god." Adam's sin in trade for Jesus. Does that make sense? I have been told that I am wrong about this by other Christians, so I don't know if this is right. We don't "atone" for sin. Making restitution is one thing. That's good, but that doesn't atone for sin in the ultimate sense. Yes, Jesus death was the ultimate sacrifice. But no, we did not give up Jesus. Jesus was given to us by God (John 3:16) God sent His Son to die for us. We didn't give up Jesus to the Father. He gave up Jesus for us. Jesus canceled out the curse that was upon mankind because of Adam's sin. So then is it like this: God sent us his son (the treasure) but then said I am also going to take him away, in trade for Adam's sins? No, God sent His Son to die for our sins. Jesus died, was buried and was raised from the dead and as a result we now have forgiveness of sins and eternal love. Jesus isn't take away, nor was Jesus traded for Adam's sin. Jesus paid the penalty for Adam's sin by His death on the cross. Because Jesus was raised from the dead and lives eternally we have assurance of eternal life when we accept as our Savior. Furthermore, God did not take Him away. Jesus lives in our hearts in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "I will never leave you, nor forsake you; I am with you always, even to the end of the world." So Jesus had to die in order to live through us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 When I thought I was an atheist, my personal atonement for sin was to ask forgiveness to the person I hurt, and then do something to make it up to them. If that wasn't possible, ie. someone in my past that I no longer have contact with, then I would ask forgiveness from myself (my mind) and then make it up to mankind in some way. My understanding of the significance of Jesus's death is that his death was the "ultimate sacrifice." We gave up something very precious (Jesus) and because of that we are "square with god." Adam's sin in trade for Jesus. Does that make sense? I have been told that I am wrong about this by other Christians, so I don't know if this is right. We don't "atone" for sin. Making restitution is one thing. That's good, but that doesn't atone for sin in the ultimate sense. Yes, Jesus death was the ultimate sacrifice. But no, we did not give up Jesus. Jesus was given to us by God (John 3:16) God sent His Son to die for us. We didn't give up Jesus to the Father. He gave up Jesus for us. Jesus canceled out the curse that was upon mankind because of Adam's sin. So then is it like this: God sent us his son (the treasure) but then said I am also going to take him away, in trade for Adam's sins? No, God sent His Son to die for our sins. Jesus died, was buried and was raised from the dead and as a result we now have forgiveness of sins and eternal love. Jesus isn't take away, nor was Jesus traded for Adam's sin. Jesus paid the penalty for Adam's sin by His death on the cross. Because Jesus was raised from the dead and lives eternally we have assurance of eternal life when we accept as our Savior. Furthermore, God did not take Him away. Jesus lives in our hearts in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "I will never leave you, nor forsake you; I am with you always, even to the end of the world." So Jesus had to die in order to live through us? Jesus had to die so we could live in Him. He is eternal life and He is in us and we are in Him. He lives in us in the Person of the Holy Spirit. But we also live in Him. We were placed in Christ the minute we were saved (Rom. 6:3-4). So yes. Jesus died so that He could live in us through us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamletcat Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 49 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/12/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 When I thought I was an atheist, my personal atonement for sin was to ask forgiveness to the person I hurt, and then do something to make it up to them. If that wasn't possible, ie. someone in my past that I no longer have contact with, then I would ask forgiveness from myself (my mind) and then make it up to mankind in some way. My understanding of the significance of Jesus's death is that his death was the "ultimate sacrifice." We gave up something very precious (Jesus) and because of that we are "square with god." Adam's sin in trade for Jesus. Does that make sense? I have been told that I am wrong about this by other Christians, so I don't know if this is right. We don't "atone" for sin. Making restitution is one thing. That's good, but that doesn't atone for sin in the ultimate sense. Yes, Jesus death was the ultimate sacrifice. But no, we did not give up Jesus. Jesus was given to us by God (John 3:16) God sent His Son to die for us. We didn't give up Jesus to the Father. He gave up Jesus for us. Jesus canceled out the curse that was upon mankind because of Adam's sin. So then is it like this: God sent us his son (the treasure) but then said I am also going to take him away, in trade for Adam's sins? No, God sent His Son to die for our sins. Jesus died, was buried and was raised from the dead and as a result we now have forgiveness of sins and eternal love. Jesus isn't take away, nor was Jesus traded for Adam's sin. Jesus paid the penalty for Adam's sin by His death on the cross. Because Jesus was raised from the dead and lives eternally we have assurance of eternal life when we accept as our Savior. Furthermore, God did not take Him away. Jesus lives in our hearts in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "I will never leave you, nor forsake you; I am with you always, even to the end of the world." So Jesus had to die in order to live through us? Jesus had to die so we could live in Him. He is eternal life and He is in us and we are in Him. He lives in us in the Person of the Holy Spirit. But we also live in Him. We were placed in Christ the minute we were saved (Rom. 6:3-4). So yes. Jesus died so that He could live in us through us. So the atonement is with God through Adam's sin. So Jesus had to die so we could like with Christ, and this is what sets us right with god? If Jesus had lived we would never have this relationship with Christ and therefore never be right with god. Why couldn't it just have waited until Jesus died of old age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,244 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted November 20, 2014 No man can ever be good enough to go to heaven and be in God's presence. Jesus is the only person Who lived a sinless life. When he took our sin on the cross and suffered the most extreme penelty for sin--the death penelty, He assured every person, even those who would die as murderers, that they would be forgiven should they come to trust in Him and receive His free gift of forgiveness. It is free to us, but it cost Jesus everything. God worked out an exchange. When He placed our sin upon Jesus, He placed Jesus goodness on our account ledger. His blood paid for our sins. "Without the shedding of blood there is no remission." Hebrews 9:22 It is only by Christ's blood that we can be cleansed of sin and enter into heaven. It is because of His blood that Father God will even hear our prayers. By it we come boldly to the throne of grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamletcat Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 49 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/12/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Can someone please explain why "Jesus died on the cross for our sins to save us, and set us straight with god." As though I am completely new to Christian beliefs. Because I am really not understanding, it doesn't make sense at all. I have heard all these words before and read the scripture, but I still don't understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Can someone please explain why "Jesus died on the cross for our sins to save us, and set us straight with god." As though I am completely new to Christian beliefs. Because I am really not understanding, it doesn't make sense at all. I have heard all these words before and read the scripture, but I still don't understand it. Shiloh has done a really good job of explaining it to you. I suggest you read through his replies carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamletcat Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 49 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/12/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Well thanks everyone, I guess I will leave it at that then. I appreciate everyone's response to my question, and questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 So the atonement is with God through Adam's sin. So Jesus had to die so we could like with Christ, and this is what sets us right with god? If Jesus had lived we would never have this relationship with Christ and therefore never be right with god. Why couldn't it just have waited until Jesus died of old age? No, the atonement is made by God through Jesus' sinless and wholly righteous offering of Himself for our sin. Jesus was a sinless sacrifice for us. Jesus' death was intentional. Jesus had to be sacrificed for our sin. Dying of old age would not work. Jesus had to satisfy God's justice and he took the death penalty that we deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Can someone please explain why "Jesus died on the cross for our sins to save us, and set us straight with god." As though I am completely new to Christian beliefs. Because I am really not understanding, it doesn't make sense at all. I have heard all these words before and read the scripture, but I still don't understand it. None of us completely understand it. You're right: It doesn't "make sense." What makes sense is that God should destroy humanity for our sin. That's what we deserve. It makes sense that sinners should go to hell. But God loved us enough to find a way to redeem us without compromising His holiness. That is at the heart of why Jesus died. Jesus took our death penalty. He paid the price we owed. He took on the weight our sin when He died. He sacrificed Himself so that we could be forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Can someone please explain why "Jesus died on the cross for our sins to save us, and set us straight with god." As though I am completely new to Christian beliefs. Because I am really not understanding, it doesn't make sense at all. I have heard all these words before and read the scripture, but I still don't understand it. March 10, 2007 ....I know God says it far better then I can and, without posting The Word I'll probably get it wrong but here goes! Sin is real and more deadly to the soul of the sinner than the venom of a viper and it is totally nasty in God's sight and cannot be in His presence. Hell is real and eternal. All have sinned. God The Father so loved the sinner that He laid the lashes for all the sins upon His Beloved Son to save the few who will receive His Gift. Jesus, God The Son, totally without sin, so loved His Father and the sinner that He went to and stayed upon The Cross and became sin and took all the lashes needed to full pay the sin debt of the whole world to save the few who will receive His Gift! All you need to do is to turn away from your nasty old sinful self, repent of your nasty old sinful self and receive God's gift by faith. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) Which you can't even do by yourself except for The Holy Spirit drawing you to God and convicting you of your horrible sinfulness and Jesus' total innocence and totally breaking your heart for what you have done.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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