Dual Kingdom Populace

[WilliamL]

Hi William L,

 

As to the question of wherefrom the saints will reign, (one of the) heaven(s) or earth...why not both? (According to the Hebraic sages, each level of heaven has its own throne.)

 

 

 

I believe the saints will reign on the earth for the millennium period because of this : Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Ah, but the one does not necessarily exclude the other! Those 24 elders speaking these things were sitting on 24 heavenly thrones in the Presence. I see no reason why they would totally abandon them. I picture it being more like the scenario in Job 1:

 

1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

 

From this passage, it seems likely that heavenly tribunals are intermittent, the same as earthly ones. Thus, opportunity for the saints to rule both above and below.

[Serving]

 

Hi William L,

 

As to the question of wherefrom the saints will reign, (one of the) heaven(s) or earth...why not both? (According to the Hebraic sages, each level of heaven has its own throne.)

 

 

 

I believe the saints will reign on the earth for the millennium period because of this : Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Ah, but the one does not necessarily exclude the other! Those 24 elders speaking these things were sitting on 24 heavenly thrones in the Presence. I see no reason why they would totally abandon them. I picture it being more like the scenario in Job 1:

 

1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

 

From this passage, it seems likely that heavenly tribunals are intermittent, the same as earthly ones. Thus, opportunity for the saints to rule both above and below.

 

 

Hi William L,

 

I do see where you are coming from .. but .. since the resurrected saints are to be equal with the angels, and the angels are in heaven (yet also working here on earth) .. then who could the resurrected saints be reigning over when in heaven, if all are equal therein? (obviously excluding the hierarchical system God already has in place.) 

 

If a resurrected saint visits heaven, being of the royal priesthood, just because he does not rule over the angels whilst in heaven, does not take away what he is ..

 

Meaning .. when a king visits a foreign land, just because he does not rule over that foreign land, does not take away the fact he is still a king.

 

The angels are sons of God  .. and since they are sons .. then they are royal too .. royal because they, just like the resurrected saints, both share the same Father .. who ..  is a King.

 

So no matter where the resurrected saints go during that 1000 year reign, they will always be kings & priests for that duration .. kings and priests over those being taught and ruled.

 

And that group being taught and ruled over is only down here on earth.

 

William .. if you want greater authority, all you need to do is become your brothers servant .. just as Christ demonstrated .. lol.

 

 

God bless.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Serving,

 

I`ve just read your post #17 Sorry to have missed it. You have some very good scriptures there concerning the Davidic Kingdom – Christ upon the throne of David, His authority ruling through Israel who is on earth. And I agree totally – as it is scripture.

However......had you ever thought upon Christ`s full office of Kingship. Remember `on His head were many crowns` (Rev. 19: 12) This shows that Christ is King over many realms & people. You would also remember when Jesus was talking to Pilate who asked Him,

`”Are you King of the Jews?” ....Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews, but now my kingdom is not from here.”` (John 18: 33 & 36)

What did Jesus mean? He meant that His seat of authority & power as King was not from the earth, but in the thronal area of the third heaven. This is where we see Him glorified & exalted (Rev. 4) this is what Jesus was actually referring to, His eternal throne.

`Your throne is established from of old: You are from everlasting.` (Ps. 93: 2)

The Lord Jesus Christ is King over many realms.

King of Glory. (Ps. 24: 7)
King of heaven. (Dan. 4: 37)
King of the Ages. (1 Tim. 1: 17)
King of Righteousness. (Heb. 7: 1 – 3)
King of Kings. (Rev. 19: 12)
King of Israel. (John 1 : 49)
King of the Jews. (Matt. 2: 2)
King of the Nations. (Rev. 15: 3)

This is a great topic but that is a start. You may like to think upon Christ`s greatness as King in these many areas. Our understanding is just being enlightened by the Holy Spirit to the awesomeness of our Lord & Saviour.

 

 

Blessings, Marilyn.
 

Edited December 8, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Salty]

 The coming millennial kingdom will consist of two populations ..

 

The first group consist of the resurrected saints who by that stage are spirit creatures like the angels ..

 

God is a Spirit .. and His human children will be one day too ..

 

John 4:24  God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

Flesh and blood can not behold the face of God and live remember ..

 

So the only possible state the resurrected saints can be of is spirit like their Father and the angels ..

 

Otherwise, this can never be achieved ..

 

Revelation 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

 

Or this ..

 

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

Now spirit is not affected by the natural things, fire, cold, death, pain, disease etc etc etc ..

 

Which leads to the physical side of the kingdom ..

 

Here is a part description during the days of the physical millennial kingdom period .. note the highlighted verses .. this kind of measure is not needed for spirit creatures, they aren't affected by worldly elements remember .. but it is needed for flesh who are affected by the elements ..

 

Isaiah 4:

 

1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

 

2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.

 

3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:

 

4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

 

5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.

 

6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.

 

Now this millennial kingdom is but the first dominion .. the second dominion is the new heavens and earth when flesh is no more and all are spirit creatures collectively and God the Father dwells amongst all His children.. that is .. after the 2nd resurrection event. 

 

This (the millennial kingdom) is where the fist will be last and last will be first prophecy kicks in .. Israel were the first to receive God .. but because of their stiff necks and constant rebelliousness .. God turned to the Gentiles (the last group to receive God) to Israel's shame ..  but God made promises to the Israelite fathers .. the millennial kingdom is to be the fulfilment of those promises.  

 

And regardless od replacement theology .. God is not finished with National Israel .. because God is going to choose them again .. 

 

Zechariah 2:12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.

 

Choose them AGAIN .. did God cast off Christians?

 

No, course not, God cast off National Israel ..

 

Do not get confused with Israel today .. she is not chosen again yet .. todays Israel is for the coming punishment she must endure and her conquering at the hands of the false prophet and her tormenting at the hands of the two witnesses ..

 

But fear not Jacob, the Lord will save you out of it in the end.

 

Praise the Lord and God bless Israel to come.

 

Good to hear that you at least understand God's Word is pointing to the world to come not being about a flesh body like we have today. Isaiah 25 suggests that all still alive on earth at Christ's coming are going to be changed, not just those of Christ's Church. This is further backed up by what our Lord Jesus said in John 5:28-29 of who all is resurrected on the day of His return.

 

Our true self that God created is of spirit, not flesh. Our flesh body is only for this present world, a vehicle for our spirit/soul to get around in this earthly dimension. Our real being is no more a part of material matter than God is, so you did good covering that point. Material matter did not create itself. It is a separate creation from God Who is a Spirit.

 

In Genesis 2 with the River flowing out of Eden to feed four other rivers upon the earth, that is pointing to God's Garden of Eden originally being in the holy land, and His abode on earth prior to Satan's rebellion (see also the parable in Ezek.31). That River is to return there during Christ's Millennial reign, as per Ezekiel 47, along with the tree of life.

 

Concerning God's Israel, that has always involved His promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (whom He named Israel), and the main Promise He gave Abraham was that of The Gospel (Gal.3). His Church from the beginning has always been about that Gospel Promise, even before Moses was given the law (Gen.14-17). The unbelievers of the seed of Israel fell from that Promise because of unbelief, and it remained with the believing remnant of Israel, along with God's Birthright blessings, where that is still established today on earth among those whom God chose as defenders of the Faith in Christ Jesus.

 

Thus it is error to assign the label 'Israel' only to the unbelievers of the seed while disregarding the larger portion of the seed of Israel that made up the majority of Israelites (ten tribes) whom God separated apart from the "house of Judah" so The Gospel could also go to the Gentiles where they were scattered amongst. Christ's Church did not replace God's Israel. Christ's Church has always been the same entity as God's Church since the beginning. The only difference when Jesus died on the cross is that His Church was made available to the believing Gentiles also per the New Covenant that was given to Israel which replaced the Old Covenant. Replacement Theology is just some counter-revolution idea certain men came up with to fight against God's Israel of Christ's Church of both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles.

 

God blinded Israel in part, per Apostle Paul in Romans 11. That so The Gospel could also go to the Gentiles. Since God Himself blinded the unbelieving portion of Israel to be outside The Gospel of Jesus Christ, how could He hold those accountable for not being giving to 'hear' and understand the Passion of Christ on the cross? During Christ's Millennial reign is when their spiritual eyes and ears will be opened, and they will hear, and many of them will believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ-Messiah. But per Ezek.44, those of them that erred will... stand in judgment throughout Christ's future thousand years reign. And those among believing Israel and believing Gentiles that will fall away to worship the coming Antichrist by mistake, will also stand in judgment during that time with them.

 

So while many continue to debate on matters involving Judah's restoration in God's Kingdom, there are much weightier matters to be aware of in these last days which can place one's soul in danger of being cast to the "outer darkness" along with the wicked when Jesus returns. The main one for these latter days that will cause that is bowing in false worship to the coming Antichrist who will be established as king in Jerusalem by the workers of iniquity, for God is going to allow them to do that to see who has been listening to Him in His Word or not.

[Enoch2021]

 

 The coming millennial kingdom will consist of two populations ..

 

The first group consist of the resurrected saints who by that stage are spirit creatures like the angels ..

 

God is a Spirit .. and His human children will be one day too ..

 

John 4:24  God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

Flesh and blood can not behold the face of God and live remember ..

 

So the only possible state the resurrected saints can be of is spirit like their Father and the angels ..

 

Otherwise, this can never be achieved ..

 

Revelation 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

 

Or this ..

 

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

Now spirit is not affected by the natural things, fire, cold, death, pain, disease etc etc etc ..

 

Which leads to the physical side of the kingdom ..

 

Here is a part description during the days of the physical millennial kingdom period .. note the highlighted verses .. this kind of measure is not needed for spirit creatures, they aren't affected by worldly elements remember .. but it is needed for flesh who are affected by the elements ..

 

Isaiah 4:

 

1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

 

2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.

 

3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:

 

4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

 

5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.

 

6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.

 

Now this millennial kingdom is but the first dominion .. the second dominion is the new heavens and earth when flesh is no more and all are spirit creatures collectively and God the Father dwells amongst all His children.. that is .. after the 2nd resurrection event. 

 

This (the millennial kingdom) is where the fist will be last and last will be first prophecy kicks in .. Israel were the first to receive God .. but because of their stiff necks and constant rebelliousness .. God turned to the Gentiles (the last group to receive God) to Israel's shame ..  but God made promises to the Israelite fathers .. the millennial kingdom is to be the fulfilment of those promises.  

 

And regardless od replacement theology .. God is not finished with National Israel .. because God is going to choose them again .. 

 

Zechariah 2:12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.

 

Choose them AGAIN .. did God cast off Christians?

 

No, course not, God cast off National Israel ..

 

Do not get confused with Israel today .. she is not chosen again yet .. todays Israel is for the coming punishment she must endure and her conquering at the hands of the false prophet and her tormenting at the hands of the two witnesses ..

 

But fear not Jacob, the Lord will save you out of it in the end.

 

Praise the Lord and God bless Israel to come.

 

Good to hear that you at least understand God's Word is pointing to the world to come not being about a flesh body like we have today. Isaiah 25 suggests that all still alive on earth at Christ's coming are going to be changed, not just those of Christ's Church. This is further backed up by what our Lord Jesus said in John 5:28-29 of who all is resurrected on the day of His return.

 

Our true self that God created is of spirit, not flesh. Our flesh body is only for this present world, a vehicle for our spirit/soul to get around in this earthly dimension. Our real being is no more a part of material matter than God is, so you did good covering that point. Material matter did not create itself. It is a separate creation from God Who is a Spirit.

 

In Genesis 2 with the River flowing out of Eden to feed four other rivers upon the earth, that is pointing to God's Garden of Eden originally being in the holy land, and His abode on earth prior to Satan's rebellion (see also the parable in Ezek.31). That River is to return there during Christ's Millennial reign, as per Ezekiel 47, along with the tree of life.

 

Concerning God's Israel, that has always involved His promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (whom He named Israel), and the main Promise He gave Abraham was that of The Gospel (Gal.3). His Church from the beginning has always been about that Gospel Promise, even before Moses was given the law (Gen.14-17). The unbelievers of the seed of Israel fell from that Promise because of unbelief, and it remained with the believing remnant of Israel, along with God's Birthright blessings, where that is still established today on earth among those whom God chose as defenders of the Faith in Christ Jesus.

 

Thus it is error to assign the label 'Israel' only to the unbelievers of the seed while disregarding the larger portion of the seed of Israel that made up the majority of Israelites (ten tribes) whom God separated apart from the "house of Judah" so The Gospel could also go to the Gentiles where they were scattered amongst. Christ's Church did not replace God's Israel. Christ's Church has always been the same entity as God's Church since the beginning. The only difference when Jesus died on the cross is that His Church was made available to the believing Gentiles also per the New Covenant that was given to Israel which replaced the Old Covenant. Replacement Theology is just some counter-revolution idea certain men came up with to fight against God's Israel of Christ's Church of both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles.

 

God blinded Israel in part, per Apostle Paul in Romans 11. That so The Gospel could also go to the Gentiles. Since God Himself blinded the unbelieving portion of Israel to be outside The Gospel of Jesus Christ, how could He hold those accountable for not being giving to 'hear' and understand the Passion of Christ on the cross? During Christ's Millennial reign is when their spiritual eyes and ears will be opened, and they will hear, and many of them will believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ-Messiah. But per Ezek.44, those of them that erred will... stand in judgment throughout Christ's future thousand years reign. And those among believing Israel and believing Gentiles that will fall away to worship the coming Antichrist by mistake, will also stand in judgment during that time with them.

 

So while many continue to debate on matters involving Judah's restoration in God's Kingdom, there are much weightier matters to be aware of in these last days which can place one's soul in danger of being cast to the "outer darkness" along with the wicked when Jesus returns. The main one for these latter days that will cause that is bowing in false worship to the coming Antichrist who will be established as king in Jerusalem by the workers of iniquity, for God is going to allow them to do that to see who has been listening to Him in His Word or not.

 

 

 

 

 

==========================================================================================================================

 

 

Isaiah 25 suggests that all still alive on earth at Christ's coming are going to be changed, not just those of Christ's Church.

 

 

Go ahead..... show this suggestion?

 

Christ RETURNS to the EARTH here.... (Revelation 19:13-16) "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  {14} And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  {15} And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

 

This is the result....

 

(Revelation 19:17-18) "And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;  {18} That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

 

 

Did you mean "Dead Flesh" when you referred to "Changed"?

 

This sounds like a different event than the one depicted above...

 

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

 

This is further backed up by what our Lord Jesus said in John 5:28-29 of who all is resurrected on the day of His return.

 

 

(John 5:28-29) " Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,  {29}  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

 

Can you point to the place where it says on "The Day" of HIS Return......?

 

Can you also reconcile this Passage please...

 

(Revelation 20:5) "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

 

This is post HIS Second Coming.  It appears not ALL of the dead are Resurrected, correct?    Who are they?

 

1.  Concerning God's Israel, that has always involved His promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (whom He named Israel), and the main Promise He gave Abraham was that of The Gospel (Gal.3).

2.  His Church from the beginning has always been about that Gospel Promise, even before Moses was given the law (Gen.14-17).

 

 

1. Everyone on the planet Earth =  The Children of Abraham.  The Children of Jacob = "The Jews".

 

2.  Christ's "Church" was born @ Pentecost......"The Jews"/Israel were born in Exodus.  See the difference?  They each have different Paths and Destinies.

 

 

Thus it is error to assign the label 'Israel' only to the unbelievers of the seed while disregarding the larger portion of the seed of Israel that made up the majority of Israelites (ten tribes) whom God separated apart from the "house of Judah" so The Gospel could also go to the Gentiles where they were scattered amongst. Christ's Church did not replace God's Israel.

 

 

Isn't the house of Judah, Israel also?

 

There is no "Replacement" they are just two different entities (SEE above)

 

"The Church" ='s Born Again Christians (They can be Jews and Gentiles).  

 

Please explain and provide Scripture for "The Church"/Born Again Christians speaking to them specifically------ before it was Paul's Honor to Reveal "The Church" here....

 

(Ephesians 3:2-6) "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:  {3} How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,  {4} Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)  {5} Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;  {6} That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"

 

 

The only difference when Jesus died on the cross is that His Church was made available to the believing Gentiles also per the New Covenant that was given to Israel which replaced the Old Covenant.

 

 

So essentially you're saying, "The Church" already existed prior to the Crucifixion?  How could HIS "Church"------"The Church"/Born Again Christians, exist Prior to HIS Death when:

 

1.  "The Church" wasn't revealed until Paul revealed it (See above, Ephesians) and...

 

2.  How could someone be "A Christian" before Christ's Death and Resurrection? 

 

 

Replacement Theology is just some counter-revolution idea certain men came up with to fight against God's Israel of Christ's Church of both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles.

 

 

It's sourced by satan.   GOD will fulfill every last promise HE made to Israel.  "The Church" is a separate entity and all the promises made to it will also be fulfilled.  It's not an either/or scenario.....both are in view. 

 

 

God blinded Israel in part, per Apostle Paul in Romans 11. That so The Gospel could also go to the Gentiles.

 

 

You're getting confused between Cause and Effect.  GOD blinded Israel "Corporately" because she rejected her Messiah.  This however, did and does not effect the "Unconditional Promises" GOD made to Israel.

 

Why did Jesus speak in Parables?

 

(Hosea 5:15) " I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early."

 

Please identify the players here in this passage and the message it is alluding to?

 

Since God Himself blinded the unbelieving portion of Israel to be outside The Gospel of Jesus Christ, how could He hold those accountable for not being giving to 'hear' and understand the Passion of Christ on the cross?

 

 

 

Woe Woe Woe here.  Say What?  You're conflating Cause and Effect again.  The same way HE holds these accountable...

 

(Romans 1:20-21) "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:  {21} Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

 

 

But per Ezek.44, those of them that erred will... stand in judgment throughout Christ's future thousand years reign. And those among believing Israel and believing Gentiles that will fall away to worship the coming Antichrist by mistake, will also stand in judgment during that time with them.

 

 

Say What?  The "Coming Antichrist" and the Millennium ?   How can the anti-christ "come" in the Millennium when he's burning in the lake of fire before the Millennium begins, here... 

 

(Revelation 19:20) "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

 

Then Identified here @ the end of the Millennium as being in that same place he was for the entire Millennium, here...

 

(Revelation 20:10) "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

 

??

 

...which can place one's soul in danger of being cast to the "outer darkness" along with the wicked when Jesus returns.

 

 

Where/What is this "outer darkness" referring to?  Where does it say that this is where the "wicked" are....and especially when Christ Returns?  Please......?

[Salty]

 

 

==========================================================================================================================

 

 

Isaiah 25 suggests that all still alive on earth at Christ's coming are going to be changed, not just those of Christ's Church.

 

 

Go ahead..... show this suggestion?

 

Christ RETURNS to the EARTH here.... (Revelation 19:13-16) "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  {14} And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  {15} And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

 

This is the result....

 

(Revelation 19:17-18) "And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;  {18} That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

 

 

Did you mean "Dead Flesh" when you referred to "Changed"?

 

This sounds like a different event than the one depicted above...

 

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

 

This is further backed up by what our Lord Jesus said in John 5:28-29 of who all is resurrected on the day of His return.

 

 

(John 5:28-29) " Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,  {29}  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

 

Can you point to the place where it says on "The Day" of HIS Return......?

 

Can you also reconcile this Passage please...

 

(Revelation 20:5) "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

 

This is post HIS Second Coming.  It appears not ALL of the dead are Resurrected, correct?    Who are they?

 

1.  Concerning God's Israel, that has always involved His promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (whom He named Israel), and the main Promise He gave Abraham was that of The Gospel (Gal.3).

2.  His Church from the beginning has always been about that Gospel Promise, even before Moses was given the law (Gen.14-17).

 

 

1. Everyone on the planet Earth =  The Children of Abraham.  The Children of Jacob = "The Jews".

 

2.  Christ's "Church" was born @ Pentecost......"The Jews"/Israel were born in Exodus.  See the difference?  They each have different Paths and Destinies.

 

 

Thus it is error to assign the label 'Israel' only to the unbelievers of the seed while disregarding the larger portion of the seed of Israel that made up the majority of Israelites (ten tribes) whom God separated apart from the "house of Judah" so The Gospel could also go to the Gentiles where they were scattered amongst. Christ's Church did not replace God's Israel.

 

 

Isn't the house of Judah, Israel also?

 

There is no "Replacement" they are just two different entities (SEE above)

 

"The Church" ='s Born Again Christians (They can be Jews and Gentiles).  

 

Please explain and provide Scripture for "The Church"/Born Again Christians speaking to them specifically------ before it was Paul's Honor to Reveal "The Church" here....

 

(Ephesians 3:2-6) "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:  {3} How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,  {4} Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)  {5} Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;  {6} That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"

 

 

The only difference when Jesus died on the cross is that His Church was made available to the believing Gentiles also per the New Covenant that was given to Israel which replaced the Old Covenant.

 

 

So essentially you're saying, "The Church" already existed prior to the Crucifixion?  How could HIS "Church"------"The Church"/Born Again Christians, exist Prior to HIS Death when:

 

1.  "The Church" wasn't revealed until Paul revealed it (See above, Ephesians) and...

 

2.  How could someone be "A Christian" before Christ's Death and Resurrection? 

 

 

Replacement Theology is just some counter-revolution idea certain men came up with to fight against God's Israel of Christ's Church of both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles.

 

 

It's sourced by satan.   GOD will fulfill every last promise HE made to Israel.  "The Church" is a separate entity and all the promises made to it will also be fulfilled.  It's not an either/or scenario.....both are in view. 

 

 

God blinded Israel in part, per Apostle Paul in Romans 11. That so The Gospel could also go to the Gentiles.

 

 

You're getting confused between Cause and Effect.  GOD blinded Israel "Corporately" because she rejected her Messiah.  This however, did and does not effect the "Unconditional Promises" GOD made to Israel.

 

Why did Jesus speak in Parables?

 

(Hosea 5:15) " I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early."

 

Please identify the players here in this passage and the message it is alluding to?

 

Since God Himself blinded the unbelieving portion of Israel to be outside The Gospel of Jesus Christ, how could He hold those accountable for not being giving to 'hear' and understand the Passion of Christ on the cross?

 

 

 

Woe Woe Woe here.  Say What?  You're conflating Cause and Effect again.  The same way HE holds these accountable...

 

(Romans 1:20-21) "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:  {21} Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

 

 

But per Ezek.44, those of them that erred will... stand in judgment throughout Christ's future thousand years reign. And those among believing Israel and believing Gentiles that will fall away to worship the coming Antichrist by mistake, will also stand in judgment during that time with them.

 

 

Say What?  The "Coming Antichrist" and the Millennium ?   How can the anti-christ "come" in the Millennium when he's burning in the lake of fire before the Millennium begins, here... 

 

(Revelation 19:20) "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

 

Then Identified here @ the end of the Millennium as being in that same place he was for the entire Millennium, here...

 

(Revelation 20:10) "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

 

??

 

...which can place one's soul in danger of being cast to the "outer darkness" along with the wicked when Jesus returns.

 

 

Where/What is this "outer darkness" referring to?  Where does it say that this is where the "wicked" are....and especially when Christ Returns?  Please......?

 

 

Isaiah 25 is where Apostle Paul was pulling from when he was teaching about the resurrection in 1 Cor.15, about death being swallowed up in victory; he directly quoted that from Isaiah 25. Sorry that you don't see the connection.

 

In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul explained in detail, with what kind of body the resurrection comes. He showed it is a "spiritual body" or "image of the heavenly", not a new flesh body. He even said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. And the thing about the resurrection, it's not just about Christ's elect, for there is to be a "resurrection of damnation" for the wicked also. Jesus revealed in John 5:28-29 that both resurrection types occur on the day of His coming, for that is what that "hour" is when all in the graves hear His voice and come forth to their particular resurrection type.

 

 

Concerning the Rev.20:5 passage about the "dead", many forget to note the timing that is given in, (even when they still are able notice it's given for after our Lord Jesus' return). In other words, what 'kind'... of death still remains in that time after Christ's second coming?

 

In the following, is our Lord Jesus giving us only a symbolic metaphor about the corrupt Pharisees He rebuked, or is there a greater literal Truth involved with His idea of their insides being full of "dead men's bones"?

 

Matthew 23

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

 

How is that symbolic concept of their being alive on earth yet inside they were like sepulchres with dead men's bones, compare with what He said to Nicodemus in John 3 that one must be "born again" to see the Kingdom of God?

 

There must be something inside each person that can be "born again" by The Spirit, because our Lord Jesus was emphatic that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit (John 3:6).

 

Thusly, whatever it is that's inside that is "born again", it must be our 'spirit' born of The Spirit. If one's spirit is NOT "born again", then in what kind of condition is it? and can the idea of liable to perish be applied to a spirit that is not "born again"? Obviously per our Lord Jesus' Own teaching by His rebuke to those Pharisees, one's spirit can still be walking and living upon this earth while it is still yet in a dead, liable to perish condition by not being "born again" by The Spirit through Faith on Jesus Christ.

 

Luke 9

60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God

 

Let "the dead" bury their "dead"? Our Lord Jesus said that about living persons on this earth as being "dead", but what did He mean? How can a person that is already 'dead' bury another dead carcase? That was simply another example of His idea about those who reject Him, their spirit inside their flesh body not "born again" of The Spirit through Him, with their spirit already assigned to 'death' in a liable to perish condition, unless they convert to Christ Jesus.

 

After Christ's coming, the only type of death remaning is the "second death" also mentioned there in Revelation 20. We are told the "second death" is the casting into the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's "thousand years" reign. Only those of the "first resurrection" are not subject to that "second death". Everyone else will be subject to it during that time, but it does not occur until after the end of the thousand years like the Rev.20 Scripture states.

 

A Scripture example of the "dead" of Rev.20:5 during the "thousand years" reign:

 

Rev.3

⁹ Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

 

That "synagogue of Satan" does not simply represent unbelievers of the seed of Israel. It represents the "workers of iniquity", Paul's "mystery of iniquity", the "children of darkness", the "many antichrists" already at work, those who knowingly serve Lucifer, their "rock" (lower case). Those are an example of those "dead" of Rev.20:5, along with the peoples of Rev.22:15 cast to an area outside the holy city that our Lord Jesus referred to as the "outer darkness". They will be made to 'bow' in front of Christ's elect when coming to worship Christ in that time.

 

But will 'some' of those "dead" convert to Christ Jesus during His Millennium reign? Yes. That is how some... of them will 'live again' at the end when they are judged. To live in that time means one's spirit is born again through Christ, just like it means today. And that actually is what the second inferred resurrection is about.

 

All knees must bow to Christ in that Millennial time per 1 Cor.15:23-28, for He must reign until all the wicked are put under His feet. That is why He showed in John 5:28-29 that the wicked who had already died during this world will be resurrected on the day of His return also, in order to bow to Him during His reign.

[Salty]

 

1.  Concerning God's Israel, that has always involved His promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (whom He named Israel), and the main Promise He gave Abraham was that of The Gospel (Gal.3).

2.  His Church from the beginning has always been about that Gospel Promise, even before Moses was given the law (Gen.14-17).

 

 

1. Everyone on the planet Earth =  The Children of Abraham.  The Children of Jacob = "The Jews".

 

2.  Christ's "Church" was born @ Pentecost......"The Jews"/Israel were born in Exodus.  See the difference?  They each have different Paths and Destinies.

 

 

Thus it is error to assign the label 'Israel' only to the unbelievers of the seed while disregarding the larger portion of the seed of Israel that made up the majority of Israelites (ten tribes) whom God separated apart from the "house of Judah" so The Gospel could also go to the Gentiles where they were scattered amongst. Christ's Church did not replace God's Israel.

 

 

Isn't the house of Judah, Israel also?

 

There is no "Replacement" they are just two different entities (SEE above)

 

"The Church" ='s Born Again Christians (They can be Jews and Gentiles).  

 

Please explain and provide Scripture for "The Church"/Born Again Christians speaking to them specifically------ before it was Paul's Honor to Reveal "The Church" here....

 

(Ephesians 3:2-6) "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:  {3} How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,  {4} Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)  {5} Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;  {6} That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"

 

 

The only difference when Jesus died on the cross is that His Church was made available to the believing Gentiles also per the New Covenant that was given to Israel which replaced the Old Covenant.

 

 

So essentially you're saying, "The Church" already existed prior to the Crucifixion?  How could HIS "Church"------"The Church"/Born Again Christians, exist Prior to HIS Death when:

 

1.  "The Church" wasn't revealed until Paul revealed it (See above, Ephesians) and...

 

2.  How could someone be "A Christian" before Christ's Death and Resurrection? 

 

 

Replacement Theology is just some counter-revolution idea certain men came up with to fight against God's Israel of Christ's Church of both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles.

 

 

It's sourced by satan.   GOD will fulfill every last promise HE made to Israel.  "The Church" is a separate entity and all the promises made to it will also be fulfilled.  It's not an either/or scenario.....both are in view. 

 

 

God blinded Israel in part, per Apostle Paul in Romans 11. That so The Gospel could also go to the Gentiles.

 

 

You're getting confused between Cause and Effect.  GOD blinded Israel "Corporately" because she rejected her Messiah.  This however, did and does not effect the "Unconditional Promises" GOD made to Israel.

 

Why did Jesus speak in Parables?

 

(Hosea 5:15) " I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early."

 

Please identify the players here in this passage and the message it is alluding to?

 

Since God Himself blinded the unbelieving portion of Israel to be outside The Gospel of Jesus Christ, how could He hold those accountable for not being giving to 'hear' and understand the Passion of Christ on the cross?

 

 

 

Woe Woe Woe here.  Say What?  You're conflating Cause and Effect again.  The same way HE holds these accountable...

 

(Romans 1:20-21) "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:  {21} Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

 

 

But per Ezek.44, those of them that erred will... stand in judgment throughout Christ's future thousand years reign. And those among believing Israel and believing Gentiles that will fall away to worship the coming Antichrist by mistake, will also stand in judgment during that time with them.

 

 

Say What?  The "Coming Antichrist" and the Millennium ?   How can the anti-christ "come" in the Millennium when he's burning in the lake of fire before the Millennium begins, here... 

 

(Revelation 19:20) "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

 

Then Identified here @ the end of the Millennium as being in that same place he was for the entire Millennium, here...

 

(Revelation 20:10) "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

 

??

 

...which can place one's soul in danger of being cast to the "outer darkness" along with the wicked when Jesus returns.

 

 

Where/What is this "outer darkness" referring to?  Where does it say that this is where the "wicked" are....and especially when Christ Returns?  Please......?

 

 

Not everyone on the planet is flesh descended from Abraham. Don't know where you're going with that idea. But through Faith on Christ Jesus according to Apostle Paul in Galatians 3, all those of Faith like faithful Abraham have become the (spiritual) children of Abraham. It is no longer only about the flesh seed of Abraham.

 

How can this be so? Paul explains that in Gal.3 and Romans also about Abraham. The Promise which God gave Abraham, which was then later sealed by the 'token' of circumcision, was by Faith and not by the law. It was given 430 years PRIOR to God giving His law through Moses. Thus the Gospel Promise by Faith was ALWAYS... given first.

 

The law was given to point... the way to the Promise with Christ coming to die on the cross to fulfill it. The law showed us how it is impossible for those born flesh to be perfect in keeping God's law, thus the righteousness by Faith through Christ's Blood shed on the cross was to give us a better way, for only Christ Jesus was born in the flesh and able to be perfect in God's law, His becoming the Perfect Sacrificial Lamb to remit our sins. None other but Jesus Christ can redeem us to The Father.

 

This Promise, which involved The Gospel of Jesus Christ, Salvation by Faith, our Heavenly Father gave through Abraham by inheritance, and it was passed on to Abraham's flesh seed (Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim & Manasseh). God telling Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac as a test pointed to Christ Jesus Who would come to die on the cross. David was given to write the prophecy of the events of Christ's crucifixion a thousand years before it came to pass (Psalms 22). Isaiah was given to prophesy of Christ Who would come to redeem the believers of Israel, and His being as a light to the Gentiles. So did those in Old Testament times not know? Some of them did... know, and were shown by God as stated, and were made caretakers of the Promise until Jesus came to fulfill. Even Enoch, the 7th from Adam, prophesied of Christ's second coming when he said, "Behod, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints" (Jude 1:14).

 

So did Israel become the caretakers of The Gospel of Jesus Christ? Yes, but not the majority of them, for God preserved a remnant of them in The Gospel and the rest were blinded (Romans 11). Likewise as caretaker and defender of the Faith, The Gospel Promise first given through Abraham did not come into the possession of all the seed of Israel. It went from Abraham, then to his son Isaac, and then Isaac's son Jacob, and from there it continued with Jacob's son Joseph...

 

Gen.37

³ Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours.

⁴ And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him.

⁵ And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.

⁶ And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:

⁷ For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.

⁸ And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.

⁹ And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

¹⁰ And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

¹¹ And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.

 

In Joseph's first dream, the center sheaf represented him, and the sheaves about him making obeisance to his sheaf represented his 11 brothers that would become 11 of the tribes of Israel, including Judah. The dream was from God, and it was not only about Joseph's trials and deliverance in Egypt, for Joseph received God's Birthright blessing that included The Gospel Promise first given through Abraham (1 Chronicles 5).

 

This obeisance by the other 11 tribes has continued throughout history. That Birthright involves great national wealth, great resources of land, the mightiest armies over the nations, blessing of literal seed as many as the stars and sands, ruling the gates (going and coming) of one's enemies, the throne of David manifested among them unto all... generations, and of course defender of the Faith, The Gospel of Jesus Christ. All that is still... manifested today on earth involving The Gospel of Jesus Christ, but NOT in the holy land today.

 

Gen.35

¹⁰ And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.

¹¹ And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

 

A nation AND a company of nations shall be of Jacob? When and where was Israel (Jacob) ever manifested as a company of nations? (that means two or more than one nation lest some cannot count).

 

Gen.48

¹⁶ The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

¹⁷ And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

¹⁸ And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

¹⁹ And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

 

The Birthright wound upon Ephraim and Manasseh per 1 Chron.5. And Jacob's name of 'Israel' was to be upon them. So this prophecy is about Ephraim's seed becoming literally "a multitude of nations" in the earth, becoming "a multitude in the midst of the earth".

 

That did not manifest with Judah, nor Benjamin, nor Levi, nor any of the other tribes of Israel, but they would become part of it, like the dream Joseph had with his brother's as sheaves around his sheaf making obeisance to Joseph's sheaf.

 

In Genesis 49, Jacob told his 12 sons to gather around for a prophesy of what would befall them in the last days (Gen.49:1). Notice all those things transferred through God's Birthright first given through Abraham still rests with Joseph in this Jacob prophecy for the last days...

 

Gen.49

²² Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:

²³ The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:

²⁴ But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the Shepherd, the stone of Israel:)

²⁵ Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

²⁶ The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

 

Remember, Jacob was giving this prophecy about the seed of Joseph for the "last days", not for the time back in Genesis.

 

But Judah would have an important part of the blessings also, i.e., the rule of God's law, and the royal sceptre throne, all the way up to Christ's return (Gen.49:10).

 

This is what God's Word points directly to for the time after God separated the ten tribed house of Israel apart from the Jews of the house of Judah (1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17). God did not lose the ten tribes, but Judah did, and still does not recognize that God fulfilled these prophecies about Joseph and his seed becoming "a multitude of nations" under care of those of the tribe of Ephraim.

 

Could the Jews become jealous about God using Joseph and his seed to accomplish the above prophecies? Yes, just as Joseph's eleven brethren were also jealous of him for the dream he had from God that would outline this prophecy, even for the "last days".

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

 

=====================================================================================================================

 

Not everyone on the planet is flesh descended from Abraham. Don't know where you're going with that idea.

 

 

Because Abraham was not Jewish....the promises made to him cover Gentiles.  My intent wasn't to portray gentiles as literal descendants, so I could have said it better. 

 

 

But through Faith on Christ Jesus according to Apostle Paul in Galatians 3, all those of Faith like faithful Abraham have become the (spiritual) children of Abraham. It is no longer only about the flesh seed of Abraham.

 

 

Go ahead and post The Specific Scriptures in Galatians 3 that support what you say and show.

 

 

How can this be so? Paul explains that in Gal.3 and Romans also about Abraham.  Thus the Gospel Promise by Faith was ALWAYS... given first.

 

 

How can what be so?

 

The Gospel is:  (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;  {2} By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.  {3} For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;  {4} And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

 

How can the "Gospel Promise" be given ~ 3000 years before Christ's Birth.  Or is the "Gospel Promise" that the Messiah will come?  If so, what is your point?

 

 

The Promise which God gave Abraham, which was then later sealed by the 'token' of circumcision, was by Faith and not by the law. It was given 430 years PRIOR to God giving His law through Moses. 

 

 

What was "The Promise"?

 

Ergo..... Abraham was not Jewish.

 

 

The law was given to point... the way to the Promise with Christ coming to die on the cross to fulfill it. The law showed us how it is impossible for those born flesh to be perfect in keeping God's law, thus the righteousness by Faith through Christ's Blood shed on the cross was to give us a better way, for only Christ Jesus was born in the flesh and able to be perfect in God's law, His becoming the Perfect Sacrificial Lamb to remit our sins. None other but Jesus Christ can redeem us to The Father.

 

 

Looks right.  What was this in response to?

 

 

This Promise, which involved The Gospel of Jesus Christ, Salvation by Faith, our Heavenly Father gave through Abraham by inheritance, and it was passed on to Abraham's flesh seed (Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim & Manasseh). God telling Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac as a test pointed to Christ Jesus Who would come to die on the cross.

 

 

The Entire OT speaks to Jesus Christ.  Yes, the sacrifice of Isaac was most assuredly "A Type".  

 

Define "The Promise of the Gospel of Jesus Christ".....?

 

Again what is this in response to?

 

 

David was given to write the prophecy of the events of Christ's crucifixion a thousand years before it came to pass (Psalms 22). Isaiah was given to prophesy of Christ Who would come to redeem the believers of Israel, and His being as a light to the Gentiles. So did those in Old Testament times not know?

 

 

Yes, And....?  There are over 300 prophecies of the events of the crucifixion alone in the OT.  That doesn't make the OT Saints...... "The Church"/Born Again Christians.

 

 

So did Israel become the caretakers of The Gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

 

Define Caretakers?

 

 

In Joseph's first dream, the center sheaf represented him, and the sheaves about him making obeisance to his sheaf represented his 11 brothers that would become 11 of the tribes of Israel, including Judah. The dream was from God, and it was not only about Joseph's trials and deliverance in Egypt, for Joseph received God's Birthright blessing that included The Gospel Promise first given through Abraham (1 Chronicles 5).

This obeisance by the other 11 tribes has continued throughout history. That Birthright involves great national wealth, great resources of land, the mightiest armies over the nations, blessing of literal seed as many as the stars and sands, ruling the gates (going and coming) of one's enemies, the throne of David manifested among them unto all... generations, and of course defender of the Faith, The Gospel of Jesus Christ. All that is still... manifested today on earth involving The Gospel of Jesus Christ, but NOT in the holy land today.

 

 

You must be responding to another post, can you please answer my rebuttals specifically:

 

 

Here....

 

1. Christ's "Church" was born @ Pentecost......"The Jews"/Israel were born in Exodus.  See the difference?  They each have different Paths and Destinies.

 

2. Isn't the house of Judah, Israel also?

 

3. There is no "Replacement" they are just two different entities (SEE above)

4. "The Church" ='s Born Again Christians (They can be Jews and Gentiles). 

 

5. Please explain and provide Scripture for "The Church"/Born Again Christians speaking to them specifically------ before it was Paul's Honor to Reveal "The Church" here....

 

(Ephesians 3:2-6) "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:  {3} How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,  {4} Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)  {5} Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;  {6} That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"

 

6. You're conflating Cause and Effect again.  The same way HE holds these accountable...

 

(Romans 1:20-21) "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:  {21} Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

 

7. So essentially you're saying, "The Church" already existed prior to the Crucifixion?  How could HIS "Church"------"The Church"/Born Again Christians, exist Prior to HIS Death when:

a.  "The Church" wasn't revealed until Paul revealed it (See above, Ephesians) and...

b.  How could someone be "A Christian" before Christ's Death and Resurrection?

 

8.  In response to "Replacement Theology".....It's sourced by satan.   GOD will fulfill every last promise HE made to Israel.  "The Church" is a separate entity and all the promises made to it will also be fulfilled.  It's not an either/or scenario.....both are in view.

 

9. You're getting confused between Cause and Effect.  GOD blinded Israel "Corporately" because she rejected her Messiah.  This however, did and does not effect the "Unconditional Promises" GOD made to Israel.

a.  Why did Jesus speak in Parables?

(Hosea 5:15) " I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early."

b.  Please identify the players here in this passage and the message it is alluding to? 

 

10.  The "Coming Antichrist" and the Millennium ?   How can the anti-christ "come" in the Millennium when he's burning in the lake of fire before the Millennium begins, here...

 

(Revelation 19:20) "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

 

Then Identified here @ the end of the Millennium as being in that same place he was for the entire Millennium, here...

 

(Revelation 20:10) "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

??

 

11. Where/What is this "outer darkness" referring to?  Where does it say that this is where the "wicked" are....and especially when Christ Returns?  Please......? 

 

 

Go ahead and "quote" each and speak specifically to my responses, if you would be so kind.  Thanks

[seandavids]

 

Hi William L,

 

As to the question of wherefrom the saints will reign, (one of the) heaven(s) or earth...why not both? (According to the Hebraic sages, each level of heaven has its own throne.)

 

 

 

I believe the saints will reign on the earth for the millennium period because of this : Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Ah, but the one does not necessarily exclude the other! Those 24 elders speaking these things were sitting on 24 heavenly thrones in the Presence. I see no reason why they would totally abandon them. I picture it being more like the scenario in Job 1:

 

1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

 

From this passage, it seems likely that heavenly tribunals are intermittent, the same as earthly ones. Thus, opportunity for the saints to rule both above and below.

 

I agree ruling and reigning on earth with Christ could easily be done from a heavenly realm just as the angels work in both realms

[WilliamL]

 

 

Hi William L,

 

As to the question of wherefrom the saints will reign, (one of the) heaven(s) or earth...why not both? (According to the Hebraic sages, each level of heaven has its own throne.)

 

 

 

I believe the saints will reign on the earth for the millennium period because of this : Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Ah, but the one does not necessarily exclude the other! Those 24 elders speaking these things were sitting on 24 heavenly thrones in the Presence. I see no reason why they would totally abandon them. I picture it being more like the scenario in Job 1:

 

1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

 

From this passage, it seems likely that heavenly tribunals are intermittent, the same as earthly ones. Thus, opportunity for the saints to rule both above and below.

 

 

Hi William L,

 

I do see where you are coming from .. but .. since the resurrected saints are to be equal with the angels, and the angels are in heaven (yet also working here on earth) .. then who could the resurrected saints be reigning over when in heaven, if all are equal therein? (obviously excluding the hierarchical system God already has in place.) 

 

... The angels are sons of God  .. and since they are sons .. then they are royal too .. royal because they, just like the resurrected saints, both share the same Father .. who ..  is a King.

 

So no matter where the resurrected saints go during that 1000 year reign, they will always be kings & priests for that duration .. kings and priests over those being taught and ruled.

 

And that group being taught and ruled over is only down here on earth.

 

William .. if you want greater authority, all you need to do is become your brothers servant .. just as Christ demonstrated .. lol.

Reply to seandavids and Serving:

 

"...the hierarchical system God already has in place [in the heavens]." That is the catch, of course. There are levels of the heavens, as well as levels within each heaven; just as there are various levels of government on earth within the same country. For example, in the United States we are all (theoretically) equal under the law, but nevertheless judges have authority over their fellow citizens under certain circumstances, and church elders have authority over the members of their congregations. A truly wise and righteous human, such as Enoch, therefore may even receive authority over a lesser ministering angel. (This is actually taught by some Hebraic scholars, who believe Enoch ascended into the close presence of the Most High, becoming a high heavenly official known as the Metatron.)