The 4 Spirits / Winds of Heaven.

[Marilyn C]

Hi inChrist,

Great teaching as per usual. Very interesting to know those details & adds a lot to our discussion. Thank you.

Marilyn.
 

[Marilyn C]

Hi LastDaze,

Yes, the 4 spirits would be behind the different rulers & powers. Maybe when I compare Dan. 7 & Rev. 6 you may get more insight as to the contemporary picture.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Enoch2021,

You have made some errors, bro.

 

 

1. The `beasts` described in Dan. 7 are the `lion, bear & leopard & terrible beast` not the 10 horns as you are trying to say.

`Daniel spoke & said, “I saw in my vision by night, &, behold the 4 winds of the heavens strove upon the great sea. And 4 great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion.... a second, like to a bear... another, like a leopard...& behold a fourth beast dreadful & terrible... ` (Dan. 7: 2 – 7)

...the beast was slain, & his body destroyed, & given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season & time.` (Dan. 7: 11 & 12)

Reading in context we clearly see that Daniel by the Holy Spirit is referring to the beasts `the rest of the beasts,` that were just described – lion, bear & leopard. Thus they have to be contemporary powers.



2. The `10 horns` are on the final beast & rule with him. The `10 horns` are not `beasts` as you try to say.

`..the fourth beast ...was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; & it had 10 horns.` (Da. 7: 7)

`The 10 horns ...receive power as kings one hour with the beast.` (Rev. 17: 12)




3. The Final beast treads down the other beasts, controlling them but they are not destroyed as you tried to suggest.

`..behold a fourth beast, dreadful & terrible, & strong exceedingly; & it had great iron teeth; it devoured & break it in pieces, & stamped the residue with the feet of it;...` (Dan. 7: 7)

`As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season.` (Dan. 7: 12)



4. Then it is the beast (& his 10 horns) that will be judged by the court & finally destroyed.

`But the judgment shall sit & they shall take away his (final beast) dominion, to consume & destroy it unto the end.` (Dan. 7: 26)


`And I saw the beast, & the kings of the earth, & their armies gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, & against His army. And the beast was taken, & the false prophet ...These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse....` (Rev. 19: 19 – 21)

 

 

Marilyn.




 

Edited December 19, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

 

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You have made some errors, bro.

 

 

Well lets take a look....

 

 

1. The `beasts` described in Dan. 7 are the `lion, bear & leopard & terrible beast` not the 10 horns as you are trying to say.

 

`Daniel spoke & said, “I saw in my vision by night, &, behold the 4 winds of the heavens strove upon the great sea. And 4 great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion.... a second, like to a bear... another, like a leopard...& behold a fourth beast dreadful & terrible... ` (Dan. 7: 2 – 7)

 

...the beast was slain, & his body destroyed, & given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season & time.` (Dan. 7: 11 & 12)

 

Reading in context we clearly see that Daniel by the Holy Spirit is referring to the beasts `the rest of the beasts,` that were just described – lion, bear & leopard. Thus they have to be contemporary powers.

 

 

 

Yes, I know this is your claim....and for the last 15 posts or so I have, in "some" detail, systematically refuted each of them.   Are you starting over again?  

 

Is this your "new evidence"..... "Reading in context we clearly see" ?  Well "The Context" comes in a Two-Fold motif; Especially when were dealing with Eschatological Prophecies:

 

1. The Local

2. The Whole Counsel of GOD

 

In this particular case, a cursory reading of the passages "locally" would appear to hint that the "rest of the beasts" would be alluding to the Lion, Bear, and Leopard; However, a more detailed exegesis of said passages in connection with and In Light of "The Whole Counsel of GOD" (The Book of Revelation in this Specific Case), reveals a much different Scenario as explained in "some" detail alluded to above.

 

To refute or "prove" otherwise, you need to focus on the Explanation (the detailed exegesis) and provide evidence against that....as requested in my last post. Which stated verbatim.... "Please refute my explanation....?"

 

 

2. The `10 horns` are on the final beast & rule with him. The `10 horns` are not `beasts` as you try to say.

 

`..the fourth beast ...was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; & it had 10 horns.` (Da. 7: 7)

 

`The 10 horns ...receive power as kings one hour with the beast.` (Rev. 17: 12)

 

 

I've brought up the fact of providing "Partial" Scriptures was a not so good habit to undertake then showed you personally how that can lead to "Quote Mining".  I then requested that you "Cease and Desist" but alas, it shows up again.

 

I do enjoy our exchanges....in some cases, it forces me to look into areas more closely than I would have otherwise undertaken; However, this is my last request....Please when posting to me: Show The Entire Scripture or Scriptures....IN TOTO.  This request is in no way unreasonable and is standard practice even in "The World" when CITING References.   Even more so when studying and applying GOD'S WORD: 

 

(Deuteronomy 8:3) "And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live."

 

As for your "claim" here, please see "Explanation" spoken of directly above and in my last post(s).

 

 

3. The Final beast treads down the other beasts, controlling them but they are not destroyed as you tried to suggest.

 

`..behold a fourth beast, dreadful & terrible, & strong exceedingly; & it had great iron teeth; it devoured & break it in pieces, & stamped the residue with the feet of it;...` (Dan. 7: 7)

 

`As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season.` (Dan. 7: 12)

 

 

As shown and refuted previously, Please show "Specifically" who....

 

1. The Final Beast is?

 

2. "Treading down" the "other" beasts"?

 

3. "Controlling Them" (The lion, bear, leopard)?

 

4. Where the Beasts (lion, bear, leopard)...are not destroyed? 

 

5. Are the beasts (lion, bear, leopard) Kingdoms or Individuals?

 

6. The lion, bear, leopard are Idioms for......who, respectively? 

 

 

4. Then it is the beast (& his 10 horns) that will be judged by the court & finally destroyed.

 

`But the judgment shall sit & they shall take away his (final beast) dominion, to consume & destroy it unto the end.` (Dan. 7: 26)

 

`And I saw the beast, & the kings of the earth, & their armies gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, & against His army. And the beast was taken, & the false prophet ...These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse....` (Rev. 19: 19 – 21)

 

 

 

You said I made some errors....with this being one, correct?  This is a Red Herring (Fallacy) because I never posted an exegesis of this specific passage (Dan 7:26).  Where is my "error" Specifically, If I never spoke to it??      Please Quote me....?

 

Since you brought it up....

 

You said:  `But the judgment shall sit & they shall take away his (final beast) dominion, to consume & destroy it unto the end.` (Dan. 7: 26)

 

My Bible says: (Daniel 7:26) "But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end."

 

It has no (Final Beast) .  Please CITE the Specific Translation that you referenced?

 

1. Who are "they"?

 

2. Who is the "Final Beast"..... Kingdom or Individual?

 

3. Define "Dominion"....?

 

4. Who is the "His"?

 

 

What is your point with yet more "Partial" Scriptures...

 

`And I saw the beast, & the kings of the earth, & their armies gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, & against His army. And the beast was taken, & the false prophet ...These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse....` (Rev. 19: 19 – 21)

 

??

[Marilyn C]

I`m going to have a break over Christmas from our discussion, but will look forward to resuming after that.

 

Blessings & Christmas greetings to all, Marilyn.

[Spock]

Hi Enoch2021,

 

Yes, we`ll be here. But China is not a super power, only a middle power. Probably need to discuss what makes a super power.

 

Much to discuss, see you,

 

Back to my homework, (How, when, where, why...in triplicate.)

 

 

Marilyn.

 

 

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How can you conclude China is a "middle power" (whatever that means) if we ...."need to discuss what makes a super power" ??  Sounds like you have the answer "before" the analysis.... 

 

That ='s "a priori" adherence.

 

 

So we already know Economically/Financially <------- this is "a biggie", who the Top Dog is........China.

 

The next category is obviously Military Strength:  Based on a 10 or so Metrics, a Power Index was created, these are the Top 10 as of April 2014: http://www.globalfirepower.com/

 

1. US

2. Russia

3. China

4. India

5. United Kingdom

6. France

7. Germany

8. Turkey

9. South Korea

10. Japan

 

Human Resources/Population: 1.  China. 2. India......................................the rest aren't in the remote Zip Code.

 

Natural Resources Rank:  http://247wallst.com/special-report/2012/04/18/the-worlds-most-resource-rich-countries/2/

 

1. Russia

2. US

3. Saudi Arabia

4. Canada

5. Iran

6. China

7. Brazil

8. Australia

9. Iraq

10. Venezuela  

 

The Number 1 Exporter in 2013:  China with 2.21 Trillion $$ Worth of Goods.  #2. European Union

 

* Rice Production:  in a Land Slide:  China

 

* Personal Computer Production:  Another Land Slide; over 90% of the World's Computers are made in China.

 

* Walmart = China  

 

 

When you say "middle power" does that mean between 1 and 1.5?

 

And where is this "Islamic Federation" Super Power?

 

 

* setehreaowlgginnahutriftthauyoiwllttkcaaurppelsoydddeaotemkaanptoi

Good stuff here Enoch. I just started this thread but it seems to me China is a wee bit more than a middle power.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

 

So who is on China`s team, if you know what I mean -  to have clout in the world. They have a big bunch of America`s IOU`s, & a lot of people. But power, real power behind the world`s scene is run by people who have made the rules & set the financial institutions in place. China has only recently been involved & is just beginning to understand the `big boys` & how they play - dirty. Thus Russia & China & Brazil etc are trying to put together a counter to the IMF, but they are having trouble as you see the whole system has been set up & is run by certain powers & power blocs.

 

Natural resources & population are fine, but the real power is in the hands of those who run the show. 

 

Marilyn. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by Marilyn C