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I look at things a bit differently.  Since I am not guaranteed another minute of life, I believe I should always be ready to pass onto the next life.  IF He chooses for me to live another day, it is a blessing to me.  If not, it is also a blessing to me, so being ready is a constant thought of mine.

 

If I happen to live to the day when we cannot buy or sell without the mark, I also have faith that God will provide, just as He provided the forty years in the desert for Moses and the Hebrews.  We are just as much a child of God as they are.

 

while I'm willing to starve to death rather than take a mark my fear is my unwillingness to watch my family starve to death, certainly I agree God has it in His power to feed His people just as He fed the Isrealites in the desert

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

best scenario is escaping from the land he will control

 

You are assuming that God wants you to run for your life!  How do you know He will not want you to stand and be a witness of His love toward His children?  That said, I will go if He tells me to go and stay if He tells me to stay.  Either way, His will be done!

 

:thumbsup:

 

Be

 

He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity:

 

he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.

 

Here is the patience and the faith

 

of the saints. Revelation 18:10

 

Still

 

Be still, and know that I am God:

 

I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. Psalms 46:10


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Posted

 

I look at things a bit differently.  Since I am not guaranteed another minute of life, I believe I should always be ready to pass onto the next life.  IF He chooses for me to live another day, it is a blessing to me.  If not, it is also a blessing to me, so being ready is a constant thought of mine.

 

If I happen to live to the day when we cannot buy or sell without the mark, I also have faith that God will provide, just as He provided the forty years in the desert for Moses and the Hebrews.  We are just as much a child of God as they are.

while I'm willing to starve to death rather than take a mark my fear is my unwillingness to watch my family starve to death, certainly I agree God has it in His power to feed His people just as He fed the Isrealites in the desert

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

best scenario is escaping from the land he will control

 

 

 

 

==============================================================================================================

 

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

 

 

It actually says it plainly here...

 

 

(Daniel 7:21) "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"

 

But there's a MAJOR problem;  If you consider "the saints" as "The Church" <------ Born Again Christians, there's a glaring contradiction in Scripture ....

 

(Matthew 16:18) " And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

 

 

Only 2 Choices Here:

 

1.  GOD contradicted Himself

2. "The Saints" don't  = "The Church"

 

Which one do you think is TRUE?

 

regards


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Posted

 

 

I look at things a bit differently.  Since I am not guaranteed another minute of life, I believe I should always be ready to pass onto the next life.  IF He chooses for me to live another day, it is a blessing to me.  If not, it is also a blessing to me, so being ready is a constant thought of mine.

 

If I happen to live to the day when we cannot buy or sell without the mark, I also have faith that God will provide, just as He provided the forty years in the desert for Moses and the Hebrews.  We are just as much a child of God as they are.

while I'm willing to starve to death rather than take a mark my fear is my unwillingness to watch my family starve to death, certainly I agree God has it in His power to feed His people just as He fed the Isrealites in the desert

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

best scenario is escaping from the land he will control

 

 

 

 

==============================================================================================================

 

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

 

 

It actually says it plainly here...

 

 

(Daniel 7:21) "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"

 

But there's a MAJOR problem;  If you consider "the saints" as "The Church" <------ Born Again Christians, there's a glaring contradiction in Scripture ....

 

(Matthew 16:18) " And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

 

 

Only 2 Choices Here:

 

1.  GOD contradicted Himself

2. "The Saints" don't  = "The Church"

 

Which one do you think is TRUE?

 

regards

 

 

Looking at the context:

 

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”  And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.  I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.  Matthew 16:16-18

 

What is "this rock" that the church is built on?  Its described in the preceding passage.  It's the divine revelation that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.  This is what builds the church.  The gates of hell can not stop this divine revelation from going forth.  Prevailing against people who receive that truth is not the same as prevailing against the revelation of that truth itself.

 

At the very least, the church is a subset of "the saints":

 

To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:  1 Corinthians 1:2

 
There are many other passages that refer to born again believers (the church) as saints.  To say that born again believers (the church) are not called saints is wrong.  There are also saints that preceded the church.
 
The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;  Matthew 27:52

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Posted

 

 

 

I look at things a bit differently.  Since I am not guaranteed another minute of life, I believe I should always be ready to pass onto the next life.  IF He chooses for me to live another day, it is a blessing to me.  If not, it is also a blessing to me, so being ready is a constant thought of mine.

 

If I happen to live to the day when we cannot buy or sell without the mark, I also have faith that God will provide, just as He provided the forty years in the desert for Moses and the Hebrews.  We are just as much a child of God as they are.

while I'm willing to starve to death rather than take a mark my fear is my unwillingness to watch my family starve to death, certainly I agree God has it in His power to feed His people just as He fed the Isrealites in the desert

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

best scenario is escaping from the land he will control

 

 

 

 

==============================================================================================================

 

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

 

 

It actually says it plainly here...

 

 

(Daniel 7:21) "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"

 

But there's a MAJOR problem;  If you consider "the saints" as "The Church" <------ Born Again Christians, there's a glaring contradiction in Scripture ....

 

(Matthew 16:18) " And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

 

 

Only 2 Choices Here:

 

1.  GOD contradicted Himself

2. "The Saints" don't  = "The Church"

 

Which one do you think is TRUE?

 

regards

 

 

Looking at the context:

 

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”  And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.  I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.  Matthew 16:16-18

 

What is "this rock" that the church is built on?  Its described in the preceding passage.  It's the divine revelation that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.  This is what builds the church.  The gates of hell can not stop this divine revelation from going forth.  Prevailing against people who receive that truth is not the same as prevailing against the revelation of that truth itself.

 

At the very least, the church is a subset of "the saints":

 

To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:  1 Corinthians 1:2

 
There are many other passages that refer to born again believers (the church) as saints.  To say that born again believers (the church) are not called saints is wrong.  There are also saints that preceded the church.
 
The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;  Matthew 27:52

 

 

 

 

 

==================================================================================

 

 

There is no Context that changes the meaning of the passage.

 

Christ is the Rock it's built on and the Gates of Hell shall not Prevail Against It.

 

The concept I was trying to relay in my reply was not that "The Church" are not "Saints"; the meaning/concept I was speaking to was you have to be careful when "Saints" are mentioned in Scripture, and that "Saints" are not exclusively any group in particular....unless it's specifically delineated.

 

Many people call these "Saints" and "The Church".....

 

(Revelation 7:14-16) "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.  {15} Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.  {16} They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat."

 

And of Course, the passage in question....

 

(Daniel 7:21) "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"

 

These were both Prevailed Against;  Juxtaposed with "The Church" which shall not be Prevailed Against; ERGO....these are not speaking to "The Church".

 

regards


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Posted

 

 

 

 

I look at things a bit differently.  Since I am not guaranteed another minute of life, I believe I should always be ready to pass onto the next life.  IF He chooses for me to live another day, it is a blessing to me.  If not, it is also a blessing to me, so being ready is a constant thought of mine.

 

If I happen to live to the day when we cannot buy or sell without the mark, I also have faith that God will provide, just as He provided the forty years in the desert for Moses and the Hebrews.  We are just as much a child of God as they are.

while I'm willing to starve to death rather than take a mark my fear is my unwillingness to watch my family starve to death, certainly I agree God has it in His power to feed His people just as He fed the Isrealites in the desert

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

best scenario is escaping from the land he will control

 

 

 

 

==============================================================================================================

 

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

 

 

It actually says it plainly here...

 

 

(Daniel 7:21) "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"

 

But there's a MAJOR problem;  If you consider "the saints" as "The Church" <------ Born Again Christians, there's a glaring contradiction in Scripture ....

 

(Matthew 16:18) " And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

 

 

Only 2 Choices Here:

 

1.  GOD contradicted Himself

2. "The Saints" don't  = "The Church"

 

Which one do you think is TRUE?

 

regards

 

 

Looking at the context:

 

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”  And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.  I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.  Matthew 16:16-18

 

What is "this rock" that the church is built on?  Its described in the preceding passage.  It's the divine revelation that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.  This is what builds the church.  The gates of hell can not stop this divine revelation from going forth.  Prevailing against people who receive that truth is not the same as prevailing against the revelation of that truth itself.

 

At the very least, the church is a subset of "the saints":

 

To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:  1 Corinthians 1:2

 
There are many other passages that refer to born again believers (the church) as saints.  To say that born again believers (the church) are not called saints is wrong.  There are also saints that preceded the church.
 
The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;  Matthew 27:52

 

 

 

 

 

==================================================================================

 

 

There is no Context that changes the meaning of the passage.

 

Christ is the Rock it's built on and the Gates of Hell shall not Prevail Against It.

 

The concept I was trying to relay in my reply was not that "The Church" are not "Saints"; the meaning/concept I was speaking to was you have to be careful when "Saints" are mentioned in Scripture, and that "Saints" are not exclusively any group in particular....unless it's specifically delineated.

 

Many people call these "Saints" and "The Church".....

 

(Revelation 7:14-16) "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.  {15} Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.  {16} They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat."

 

And of Course, the passage in question....

 

(Daniel 7:21) "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"

 

These were both Prevailed Against;  Juxtaposed with "The Church" which shall not be Prevailed Against; ERGO....these are not speaking to "The Church".

 

regards

 

 

I agree that Christ is the Rock and the reason that the gates of hell will not prevail against.  The "prevailing against the saints" is referring to a time of martyrdom.  There have been rulers that have prevailed against the saints of the church before (martyrdom) but that does not mean that the church was prevailed against or we wouldn't be having this discussion.  The Antichrist will be another of those rulers albeit at a magnitude not yet before seen.  I see it as completely plausible that the reference to prevailing against "the saints" can mean those of the church.  That still won't mean that the "church" was prevailed against.

 

Anyway, I'd rather stay on topic as much as possible.  What do you think it means to "be ready"?


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Posted

 

I agree that Christ is the Rock and the reason that the gates of hell will not prevail against.  The "prevailing against the saints" is referring to a time of martyrdom.  There have been rulers that have prevailed against the saints of the church before (martyrdom) but that does not mean that the church was prevailed against or we wouldn't be having this discussion.  The Antichrist will be another of those rulers albeit at a magnitude not yet before seen.  I see it as completely plausible that the reference to prevailing against "the saints" can mean those of the church.  That still won't mean that the "church" was prevailed against.

 

Anyway, I'd rather stay on topic as much as possible.  What do you think it means to "be ready"?

 

 

 

===============================================================================================================

 

The "prevailing against the saints" is referring to a time of martyrdom.

 

 

Well Yes, Inherently.

 

 

There have been rulers that have prevailed against the saints of the church before (martyrdom) but that does not mean that the church was prevailed against or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

 

Well yea.

 

 

I see it as completely plausible that the reference to prevailing against "the saints" can mean those of the church.  That still won't mean that the "church" was prevailed against.

 

 

Not if it's these you are referring to...

 

(Revelation 7:14-16) "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.  {15} Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.  {16} They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat."

 

Unless you're postulating 2 or more Raptures.  ??

 

 

What do you think it means to "be ready"?

 

 

This speaks to the Doctrine of Imminence.  That is, there is no proceeding event that will clue you to when you will be Raptured.  That means HE could come in the next second....and we should live our lives, accordingly.

 

Of course, this Doctrine is taken to the Woodshed and Bludgeoned Senseless the moment the ac Confirms the Covenant with the many (or the Abomination of Desolation occurs) and "The Church" is still here.  Why, well you can more or less Mark your Calender and Set your Watch to the Second Coming.  Which also dis-annuls these....

 

(Matthew 24:36) " But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

 

(Mark 13:32) " But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

 

(Luke 12:40) " Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

 

(2 Peter 3:10) "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

 

and about 20 others I could post.

 

ERGO, I am in the Pre-70th Week of Daniel Rapture Camp.


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Posted

I look at things a bit differently.  Since I am not guaranteed another minute of life, I believe I should always be ready to pass onto the next life.  IF He chooses for me to live another day, it is a blessing to me.  If not, it is also a blessing to me, so being ready is a constant thought of mine.

 

If I happen to live to the day when we cannot buy or sell without the mark, I also have faith that God will provide, just as He provided the forty years in the desert for Moses and the Hebrews.  We are just as much a child of God as they are.

while I'm willing to starve to death rather than take a mark my fear is my unwillingness to watch my family starve to death, certainly I agree God has it in His power to feed His people just as He fed the Isrealites in the desert

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

best scenario is escaping from the land he will control

 

 

 

==============================================================================================================

 

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

 

It actually says it plainly here...

 

 

(Daniel 7:21) "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"

 

But there's a MAJOR problem;  If you consider "the saints" as "The Church" <------ Born Again Christians, there's a glaring contradiction in Scripture ....

 

(Matthew 16:18) " And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

 

 

Only 2 Choices Here:

 

1.  GOD contradicted Himself

2. "The Saints" don't  = "The Church"

 

Which one do you think is TRUE?

 

regards

There is one more choice you are not providing. The idea that we will be here until the last trumpet as what Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:52, and not taken away before then. This is what I believe and scripture is very clear about this.


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Posted

 

 

 

I look at things a bit differently.  Since I am not guaranteed another minute of life, I believe I should always be ready to pass onto the next life.  IF He chooses for me to live another day, it is a blessing to me.  If not, it is also a blessing to me, so being ready is a constant thought of mine.

 

If I happen to live to the day when we cannot buy or sell without the mark, I also have faith that God will provide, just as He provided the forty years in the desert for Moses and the Hebrews.  We are just as much a child of God as they are.

while I'm willing to starve to death rather than take a mark my fear is my unwillingness to watch my family starve to death, certainly I agree God has it in His power to feed His people just as He fed the Isrealites in the desert

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

best scenario is escaping from the land he will control

 

 

 

 

==============================================================================================================

 

 

but according to the prophecy the antichrist succeeds in his war against the saints and overcomes them see Daniel 11:32-34

 

 

It actually says it plainly here...

 

 

(Daniel 7:21) "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"

 

But there's a MAJOR problem;  If you consider "the saints" as "The Church" <------ Born Again Christians, there's a glaring contradiction in Scripture ....

 

(Matthew 16:18) " And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

 

 

Only 2 Choices Here:

 

1.  GOD contradicted Himself

2. "The Saints" don't  = "The Church"

 

Which one do you think is TRUE?

 

regards

 

There is one more choice you are not providing. The idea that we will be here until the last trumpet as what Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:52, and not taken away before then. This is what I believe and scripture is very clear about this.

 

 

 

 

 

=======================================================================================================================

 

 

 

There is one more choice you are not providing. The idea that we will be here until the last trumpet as what Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:52, and not taken away before then. This is what I believe and scripture is very clear about this.

 

 

Hey OneLight,

 

There's a reason, your point here has nothing to do with the Tenets of the Postulate I made above. Ergo, I didn't list it.

 

To your general point, I agree....

 

(1 Corinthians 15:52) "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

 

So then we look here...

 

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

Then here...

 

(Revelation 11:15) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

 

This then Begs the Question... are these Equivalent Statements: "at the last trump", "trump of GOD", and "the seventh angel sounded" ??

 

 

I contend and can show (with numerous Proof Texts and Scripturally Sound Rationales) that: "at the last trump" and "trump of GOD" do not =  the "seventh angel sounded".


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Posted

There is one more choice you are not providing. The idea that we will be here until the last trumpet as what Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:52, and not taken away before then. This is what I believe and scripture is very clear about this.

 

Hey OneLight,

 

There's a reason, your point here has nothing to do with the Tenets of the Postulate I made above. Ergo, I didn't list it.

 

To your general point, I agree....

 

(1 Corinthians 15:52) "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

 

So then we look here...

 

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

Then here...

 

(Revelation 11:15) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

 

This then Begs the Question... are these Equivalent Statements: "at the last trump", "trump of GOD", and "the seventh angel sounded" ??

 

 

I contend and can show (with numerous Proof Texts and Scripturally Sound Rationales) that: "at the last trump" and "trump of GOD" do not =  the "seventh angel sounded".

I never said it was the seventh trumpet, though I lean that way. At any point, it will be "at the last trumpet" as scripture tells us, despite how many verses you show that use the term "trumpet".

As for your "Tenets of the Postulate", I must say, I know nothing of these tenets.


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Posted

 

 

There is one more choice you are not providing. The idea that we will be here until the last trumpet as what Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:52, and not taken away before then. This is what I believe and scripture is very clear about this.

 

Hey OneLight,

 

There's a reason, your point here has nothing to do with the Tenets of the Postulate I made above. Ergo, I didn't list it.

 

To your general point, I agree....

 

(1 Corinthians 15:52) "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

 

So then we look here...

 

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

Then here...

 

(Revelation 11:15) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

 

This then Begs the Question... are these Equivalent Statements: "at the last trump", "trump of GOD", and "the seventh angel sounded" ??

 

 

I contend and can show (with numerous Proof Texts and Scripturally Sound Rationales) that: "at the last trump" and "trump of GOD" do not =  the "seventh angel sounded".

 

I never said it was the seventh trumpet, though I lean that way. At any point, it will be "at the last trumpet" as scripture tells us, despite how many verses you show that use the term "trumpet".

As for your "Tenets of the Postulate", I must say, I know nothing of these tenets.

 

 

 

=====================================================================================================

 

I never said it was the seventh trumpet, though I lean that way.

 

 

I thought you might.

 

 

At any point, it will be "at the last trumpet" as scripture tells us, despite how many verses you show that use the term "trumpet".

 

 

None of my proofs concern "Trumpets".

 

 

As for your "Tenets of the Postulate", I must say, I know nothing of these tenets.

 

 

I'm confused....if you know nothing about any of the Tenets of my Previous Postulate, then how did you reckon I failed to list all the choices?

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