The thousand years

Retrobyter · May 1, 2015

Shalom, Sister.

Hi George

Yes the resurrection will be amazing. We know there are two resurrections. The first one consists of all those "in Christ" who will be changed in a twinkling of the eye at the coming, and the second resurrection is a thousand years later (white throne judgement) where the goats are separated from the sheep, ..then the earth will be melted and death will be no more.

..so in between the coming, and the white throne judgement we have a thousand years of Christ ruling.

We understand that Christ's kingdom will be set up in Jerusalem as it's headquarters and this kingdom area has boundaries.

The purpose of this kingdom ruling on earth is to bring back Israel to God. We know there will be survivors of Armageddon of all nations, who did not take part in the 1st resurrection simply because they did not know the lamb,

but God's purpose is to bring the remnants of Israel that survived into the kingdom and teach them Christ. ....but the remnants are not only the last day survivors of Israel, but the ones from the past also.

This amazing thing that I can see in Ezekiel of the bones coming together tied with scriptures here and there is that during the millennium, these ones who are in the grave (of Israel only) will be "revived" back into their flesh and brought into the kingdom. They will not be raised to spirit, but flesh, and they do not consist of "all Israel", but only the ones of Israel God has chosen to bring back. Together, from all generations, these will make up the whole house of Israel.

Remember when Jesus brought Lazarus back to life? Well Lazarus was not "resurrected" into spirit but brought back to life. There is a difference. Lazarus died again for he was still flesh. The Jews were scheming to kill him.

I think God is showing us something in Ezekiel that he can do the same with the dead, and nothing is too hard for him, even if it has been thousands of years and their flesh has decayed. It will be the same, Christ will raise them, and bring them back from the dead again into the kingdom, so that they get the opportunity to know Christ and have the holy spirit put in them. But only Israel, not gentiles, for the promise was to them concerning the promised land, and the spiritual promises all who will later follow Christ (gentiles). Two promises, one to them and one to us.

Job said in his flesh he shall see God. This is one of the clues.

The saints will be spirit of course, and those of Israel who followed Christ will be in that first resurrection and turned to spirit. The rest who did not know him will be brought back to flesh. They can die again, and in the kingdom, they will live a ripe old age of 100. They die again because they are flesh, but they die with the full spirit of God in them because the Lamb has fed them this time. They will be in the second resurrection when they get their "changed bodies" and their salvation is secured.

Can you see this?

First of all, the goats and sheep separation is not done at the end of the Millennium but at its beginning!

Matthew 25:31-46

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

KJV

Notice that the angels are NOT throwing the goats into the fire AT THIS TIME! He is just consigning them to their fate! I believe that this is a WAR TRIBUNAL following the battles involved in Israel’s rescue.

At the end of the Millennium is the parable of the tares among the wheat:

Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

...

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father (God the Father). Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

KJV

Some think this parable is about THIS time period in which we live, but since this is talking about His KINGDOM and since His Kingdom doesn’t start until He returns, then it is talking about the FIRST 1000 years of His Kingdom, the World Empire, before it becomes the Kingdom of God the Father.

I am in TOTAL agreement with your assessment of resurrection; however, you need to understand that ALL of Israel is Yeshua`s FAMILY! You don’t disown FAMILY! You said, “only the ones of Israel God has chosen to bring back”? I don’t agree with that. I believe that they will ALL be given a chance with FULL understanding of the Messiah and the Kingdom that God has planned through His leadership BEFORE they are judged. If they are "sons of Belial,” that is, if they are bound and determined to reject God and His plans for Israel, then they will suffer the consequences.

Luke 19:27

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

KJV

The difference between resurrection before Yeshua`s resurrection and the resurrection after His resurrection is in the transformation that Paul described in 1 Corinthians 15:

1 Corinthians 15:51-54

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

KJV

This “change” - this transformation - from decay to incorruption, from mortal to immortality - is what the Resurrection of the Messiah Yeshua` provided for us. We already in the Messiah shall be transformed immediately. Those in the Mishpachah (the Family) may be transformed after they’ve made their choice to accept God’s Messiah as better than Mosheh (Moses).

HOWEVER, you need to understand that this is NOT a difference between physical and non-physical! The word “spiritual,” “pneumatikos” in Greek, is contrasted with the adjective form of “psuchee,” “psuchikos.” “Psuchikos" was unfortunately translated as “natural,” but the word simply means that it is a body that “breathes,” just as that body of our ancestor Adam. The word “pneumatikos” refers to a body that can “BLAST,” not that it is made out of “spirit!” They are BOTH bodies that are physical. One, however, is weak and only barely survives by “breathing.” The other is strong, incorruptible, immortal, and does FAR MORE than just “survive!” It can deliver a BLAST of air - a WIND - a RUACH in Hebrew - that can raise the dead to life! It is a GLORIFIED body; that is, it SHINES in God’s Presence (Shekiynah)! I believe that it is a body that utilizes God’s energy directly and no longer needs to convey life-supporting oxygen from the breath in the lungs to the cells of the body through the hemoglobin in the red corpuscles of the blood. (“The life of the flesh is in the blood.”)

Lastly, you need to know that there is another interpretation of Isaiah 65:

Isaiah 65:19-23

19 I will rejoice in Yerushalayim

and take joy in my people.

The sound of weeping will no longer be heard in it,

no longer the sound of crying.

20 No more will babies die in infancy,

no more will an old man die short of his days —

he who dies at a hundred will be thought young,

and at less than a hundred thought cursed.

21 They will build houses and live in them,

they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

22 They will not build and others live there,

they will not plant and others eat;

for the days of my people

will be like the days of a tree,

and my chosen will themselves enjoy

the use of what they make.

23 They will not toil in vain

or raise children to be destroyed,

for they are the seed blessed by Adonai;

and their offspring with them.

CJB

And, someone else has said (who?) that it is childhood itself that “dies” at 100, referring to the NEW age of puberty!

Hope this all helps in your quest for God’s truth.

Sister · May 2, 2015

First of all, the goats and sheep separation is not done at the end of the Millennium but at its beginning!

Shalom Retrobyter.

There are two judgements. When Christ returns of course he will separate the goats from the sheep.

We know the enemy has infiltrated the kingdom of God, pretending to belong, but Christ will decide who belongs and will sift out the goats. They will not be in this first resurrection.

...but we have all the dead not in Christ, they stay in their graves and will be dealt with at the 2nd resurrection.

So anyone not resurrected at the coming, has judgement awaiting them 1000 years later when they will be judged from the books. This will be the second judgement, another separation of the goats from the sheep.

Except.....for the house of Israel or of Israel's bloodline. Many were born before Christ and did not get that chance to know him. They only knew the old covenant, and some were even born before that.

This is now another separate thing. An election of mercy, now the house of Israel will be sifted. A separate sifting.

What I can see in the scriptures is this;

The millennium is a special time of rest from the oppressor. It's a time of change, a different system. The world will be governed by Christ, according to God's system. God's ways, his rules, his laws, and not according to men now.

The reason for this thousand years, is to bring Israel back to God. To update them, fill them in on the whole truth. If they never knew Christ, then they can't acknowledge or glorify him. They cannot attest that what he speaks or spoke is truth, and that he is the only way to the Father. They did not know this back then that there is no other way to God. It wasn't for them to know in their time. The law was only the schoolmaster leading to Christ. So it will make sense to them when they are brought back what their sacrifices represented and what their whole history led to.

So God, full of mercy, gives them that opportunity during the millennium. Now they can learn Christ, and be filled with truth, ...the whole truth, to be true witnesses also of Christ knowing the "whole plan of God" from start to finish. Their worship will not be according to animal sacrifices any more, but of the heart. Just like we now have all the scriptures, and the holy spirit showing us truth, they will get to experience this wonderful thing now too. Only Christ will be there, and will guide them. There will be no confusion, no enemy to distort the truth.

So in order for this "election of grace" to take part in this wonderful plan God has for Israel's healing, ...they have to be brought out of their graves, brought back from the dead.

And this is what makes up the whole house of Israel during the millennium. All the generations except for the generation that came out of Egypt. They will not be chosen to take part in this wonderful thing to come.

So Israel will be placed in the kingdom area, situated in Jerusalem on earth. It's borders will be enlarged.

The saints will be there ruling with Christ. The saints have already inherited all that belongs to Christ, in heaven and on earth...everything... and will be Christ's helpers for Israel's restoration, and Israel will help with the healing of the nations. They are chosen now to spread truth, and their testimony will be great.

Those dry bones spoken of in Ezekiel, having their bones put together, and flesh back on them is revealing to us that God will bring them back from the grave "in the flesh". It's not a resurrection, for when one is resurrected, he will be spirit and can never die again, it's a little different, it's like a "reviving", being raised from the dead and having breath put back in them. Being whole again, but in the flesh. They will die again, but after a ripe old age, and this time they will die with the full holy spirit in them.

These dead that will be brought back will join the last day remnants of Israel that survived Armageddon. Together, all the dead generations of "Israel" brought back, with all the living remnants will make up the whole house of Israel. These will be representing Israel now. And all these having had mercy, and especially chosen/hand picked by God will be taught Christ, and will in turn teach the outside nations. Not one of them will be lost, as their salvation is guaranteed.

They will receive their transformed spiritual bodies in the 2nd Resurrection. The Great White Throne Judgement. This is when they will truly inherit the kingdom of God. This is what it all leads to, the final outcome.

They will have their names written in the Lambs book of life. They will be the sheep, and those not written in the Lambs book of life will be the goats all the dead that died from the past, and during the millennium.

This is the final sifting.

This is what I can see, and what I have trouble trying to convey, this precious little insight given to us from God. A little glimpse of the kingdom, and one of the amazing things that will be performed before our eyes.

I am a witness to this truth, and attest that what God has shown will be fulfilled.

If I seem a little off beat, then so be it, I will wear it, but I just at least want brothers to really look into it, and pray about this, and find out what the spirit can show you. If we think we know it all, then we are wrong, there is so much more truth we have yet to find, all of us. We should never stop seeking.

God bless.

Retrobyter · May 31, 2015

Shabbat shalom, Sister.

First of all, the goats and sheep separation is not done at the end of the Millennium but at its beginning!

Shalom Retrobyter.

There are two judgements. When Christ returns of course he will separate the goats from the sheep.

We know the enemy has infiltrated the kingdom of God, pretending to belong, but Christ will decide who belongs and will sift out the goats. They will not be in this first resurrection.

...but we have all the dead not in Christ, they stay in their graves and will be dealt with at the 2nd resurrection.

So anyone not resurrected at the coming, has judgement awaiting them 1000 years later when they will be judged from the books. This will be the second judgement, another separation of the goats from the sheep.

Except.....for the house of Israel or of Israel's bloodline. Many were born before Christ and did not get that chance to know him. They only knew the old covenant, and some were even born before that.

This is now another separate thing. An election of mercy, now the house of Israel will be sifted. A separate sifting.

What I can see in the scriptures is this;

The millennium is a special time of rest from the oppressor. It's a time of change, a different system. The world will be governed by Christ, according to God's system. God's ways, his rules, his laws, and not according to men now.

The reason for this thousand years, is to bring Israel back to God. To update them, fill them in on the whole truth. If they never knew Christ, then they can't acknowledge or glorify him. They cannot attest that what he speaks or spoke is truth, and that he is the only way to the Father. They did not know this back then that there is no other way to God. It wasn't for them to know in their time. The law was only the schoolmaster leading to Christ. So it will make sense to them when they are brought back what their sacrifices represented and what their whole history led to.

So God, full of mercy, gives them that opportunity during the millennium. Now they can learn Christ, and be filled with truth, ...the whole truth, to be true witnesses also of Christ knowing the "whole plan of God" from start to finish. Their worship will not be according to animal sacrifices any more, but of the heart. Just like we now have all the scriptures, and the holy spirit showing us truth, they will get to experience this wonderful thing now too. Only Christ will be there, and will guide them. There will be no confusion, no enemy to distort the truth.

So in order for this "election of grace" to take part in this wonderful plan God has for Israel's healing, ...they have to be brought out of their graves, brought back from the dead.

And this is what makes up the whole house of Israel during the millennium. All the generations except for the generation that came out of Egypt. They will not be chosen to take part in this wonderful thing to come.

So Israel will be placed in the kingdom area, situated in Jerusalem on earth. It's borders will be enlarged.

The saints will be there ruling with Christ. The saints have already inherited all that belongs to Christ, in heaven and on earth...everything... and will be Christ's helpers for Israel's restoration, and Israel will help with the healing of the nations. They are chosen now to spread truth, and their testimony will be great.

Those dry bones spoken of in Ezekiel, having their bones put together, and flesh back on them is revealing to us that God will bring them back from the grave "in the flesh". It's not a resurrection, for when one is resurrected, he will be spirit and can never die again, it's a little different, it's like a "reviving", being raised from the dead and having breath put back in them. Being whole again, but in the flesh. They will die again, but after a ripe old age, and this time they will die with the full holy spirit in them.

These dead that will be brought back will join the last day remnants of Israel that survived Armageddon. Together, all the dead generations of "Israel" brought back, with all the living remnants will make up the whole house of Israel. These will be representing Israel now. And all these having had mercy, and especially chosen/hand picked by God will be taught Christ, and will in turn teach the outside nations. Not one of them will be lost, as their salvation is guaranteed.

They will receive their transformed spiritual bodies in the 2nd Resurrection. The Great White Throne Judgement. This is when they will truly inherit the kingdom of God. This is what it all leads to, the final outcome.

They will have their names written in the Lambs book of life. They will be the sheep, and those not written in the Lambs book of life will be the goats all the dead that died from the past, and during the millennium.

This is the final sifting.

This is what I can see, and what I have trouble trying to convey, this precious little insight given to us from God. A little glimpse of the kingdom, and one of the amazing things that will be performed before our eyes.

I am a witness to this truth, and attest that what God has shown will be fulfilled.

If I seem a little off beat, then so be it, I will wear it, but I just at least want brothers to really look into it, and pray about this, and find out what the spirit can show you. If we think we know it all, then we are wrong, there is so much more truth we have yet to find, all of us. We should never stop seeking.

God bless.

Well, while that all SOUNDS good, it’s simply not true. First of all, you need to be current in world events. The Jews are coming to the Messiah Yeshua` BY THE THOUSANDS! They are ALREADY learning that Yeshua` from Natsaret (Nazareth) was and is the Messiah of God. There are hundreds of Messianic Synagogues being started in Israel and some are within the city of Yerushalayim (Jerusalem). Orthodox Jews may not like it, but that’s the way it is.

When Yeshua` said,

Matthew 23:37-39

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

KJV

it is implied that Israel will ALREADY be saying “Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the LORD” BEFORE He returns! Once again, this is a QUOTATION from Psalm 118:26:

Psalm 118:22-26

22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.

23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.

24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.

26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

KJV

The Hebrew of verse 26 is...

26 Baruwkh haba’ b-shem YHWH: beerakhnukhem mibeeyt YHWH.

(Isn’t it amazing how 7 Hebrew words turned into 22 English words?!)

Literally, this translates to ...

26 Welcome the-Comer in-name of-YHWH: we-have-welcomed from-house of-YHWH.

This tells us two things: One, the "Comer in-name of-YHWH” (God’s Messiah) will be welcomed BEFORE Yeshua` returns, and Two, the "house of-YHWH” must already have been built BEFORE Yeshua` returns.

Now, the separation of the sheep NATIONS from the goat NATIONS is NOT a personal judgment. It’s a NATIONAL separation, AND they are both quite alive! It’s just nonsense to say that this judgment occurs ... WHERE EXACTLY? ... such that some are resurrected and the rest are not! The sheep/goat separation mentions NOTHING about a resurrection! Look at it again:

Matthew 25:31-46

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

KJV

There’s NOTHING there about a resurrection! I don’t mean this to be unkind; I’m trying to get you to look carefully at the Scriptures! The assumptions that you’ve made about this tribunal are unsupported.

wingnut- · June 1, 2015

What I can see in the scriptures is this;
The millennium is a special time of rest from the oppressor. It's a time of change, a different system. The world will be governed by Christ, according to God's system. God's ways, his rules, his laws, and not according to men now.

Hello sister,

I just wanted to ask you a couple of things specifically, which I find difficult to reconcile with my understanding. Ok, so we have a thousand years of Jesus reigning, and at the end of that His reign ends in a revolt? Doesn't that reduce His reign to being as unsuccessful as the previous reigns? Either He is reigning and it is His system or it isn't.

The reason for this thousand years, is to bring Israel back to God. To update them, fill them in on the whole truth. If they never knew Christ, then they can't acknowledge or glorify him. They cannot attest that what he speaks or spoke is truth, and that he is the only way to the Father.

Ok, so if the reason for the thousand years is to bring Israel back to God, then what was going on for the previous 3 1/2 years.

Revelation 12:⁵And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. ⁶Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

Revelation 12:³And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. ¹⁴But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

For 3 1/2 years Israel is out of the serpent's reach, so what will be going on during this time?

Sister · June 1, 2015

Hello sister,

I just wanted to ask you a couple of things specifically, which I find difficult to reconcile with my understanding. Ok, so we have a thousand years of Jesus reigning, and at the end of that His reign ends in a revolt? Doesn't that reduce His reign to being as unsuccessful as the previous reigns? Either He is reigning and it is His system or it isn't.

Greetings Wingnut

From reading the scriptures throughout I see it like this with my understanding;

The survivors who will witness Christ's Coming with all his power and glory will also witness that Christ has taken over all the kingdoms of the world.

The wicked leaders of the world have been removed and their power and leadership taken off them.

Christ will replace the earth with his laws, and the law will come forth out of Jerusalem.

Every knee shall bow to Christ, and it will be spectacular.

So all those who will see the coming will be witnesses, but their next generations will not be. Children will be born and the eye witness accounts will be passed down through word of mouth and teaching.

The new generations to be born have not known Babylon. They have not experienced it. We have, but they wont. It's all a story to them passed down. They have it easy.

So even though Satan is locked up, evil has not yet been completely destroyed in the hearts of men.

As the generations go on and on, the eye witness accounts are dating and there are some men who still have evil in their hearts despite hearing the truth.

These must be sifted out and they cannot act in rebellion or war just yet because Christ guarantees a thousand years of rest from wars and violence etc.

Christ is in charge now don't forget and keeps his Word.

Once the thousand years is complete, Christ will now do the final sifting between the good and the wicked, so he lets Satan loose.

Those who have evil in their hearts will be attracted to Satan's plan to stir up the righteous and cause war. War will be a new experience for them and they will find it exciting to rebel and express openly.

Satan is used as a magnet to draw the wicked to himself and he gives them courage to perform the will and intent of their hearts.

This is all God's plan wingnut, as the wicked have to be finally sifted out for the sake of the good.

And the world will witness war for the first time, after the thousand years.

They will see with their own eyes and understand why the destroyer was put away for a time, and they will learn by this and comprehend fully.

All of Israel living in the kingdom will be fully restored and they will produce many many children who will be born to them and taught to love to Christ and his holy ways...

.... so many children to come into the kingdom of God, not only their own, but of the gentiles also whom they are commissioned to teach.

...Millions and millions will be converted to Christ and will take part in the second resurrection.

The millennium was not a failure or a waste of time, but God's wonderful plan, perfectly orchestrated to produce more children for himself to raise in the 2nd resurrection in preparation to dwell in the new heavens and new earth.

Ok, so if the reason for the thousand years is to bring Israel back to God, then what was going on for the previous 3 1/2 years.

The 3 1/2 years is punishment on Israel and the world. It is not their restoration time, but a time of war and oppression from a horrible dictator who hates them because they are connected to God from old times.

But God has revealed that he will punish first then give mercy, because they are his children and children need discipline and correction when they don't listen..not just them but us too.

Jeremiah 25:29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.

Any Israelite who comes to Christ before this 3 1/2 year tribulation will be in the resurrection of the saints, and not "of Israel", but one in Christ with all the other saints.

Sister · June 1, 2015

Ok, so if the reason for the thousand years is to bring Israel back to God, then what was going on for the previous 3 1/2 years.

Revelation 12:⁵And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. ⁶Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

Wingnut,

To further comment on this scripture you have given please consider this one thing;

When Jesus was caught up to God the truth was preserved amongst the apostles and the new testament scriptures were being written and sent to the churches.

During this 3 1/2 year time, the truth was preserved in writing, and could not be touched by the enemy for the truth was protected.

We cannot take this verse and put it at the end for it happened after the child was caught up to God.

Revelation 12:³And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. ¹⁴But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

For 3 1/2 years Israel is out of the serpent's reach, so what will be going on during this time?

This verse clearly shows us that Satan the dragon was thrown out of heaven after the resurrection. He no longer has access to heaven and is very wroth. He went after the woman, who is "the doctrine" of God, and tried to destroy it, but the doctrine was protected for these 3 1/2 years and taught amongst the believers, and scriptures were being recorded.

It is not speaking of Israel, but the Woman. The woman is God's doctrine. The woman's name is Zion and we follow her teachings.

Retrobyter · June 2, 2015

Shalom, wingnut- and George.

If you read the entire passage of Isaiah 24, it's referring to the Day of the Lord and when He comes to defend Jerusalem. You can read about it in Zechariah 14.

Hello again George,

I agree with your thoughts on the time Isaiah 24 is addressing, which if I am understanding you correctly we both see as taking place at the end of the millenial period. This brings us to the second major hurdle I have with the thousand years as being literal. That being, the condition of the planet at the time in question, particularly concerning the sun and the moon. So I want to start with what occurs just prior to Jesus returning and go from there.

Revelation 6:¹²I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; ¹³and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. ¹⁴The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. ¹⁵Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; ¹⁶and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; ¹⁷for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Isaiah 24:²¹So it will happen in that day,
That the Lord will punish the host of heaven on high,
And the kings of the earth on earth.
²²They will be gathered together
Like prisoners in the dungeon,
And will be confined in prison;
And after many days they will be punished.
²³Then the moon will be abashed and the sun ashamed,
For the Lord of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem,
And His glory will be before His elders.

Comparing the two passages, the Revelation incident appears to be preceding what Isaiah describes here. The sun and the moon are darkened and the stars fall in Revelation, in Isaiah the sun and moon are dark, no mention of the stars because they have already fallen. Both passages reference the kings of the earth, Revelation shows them hiding and Isaiah discusses their punishment.

Now, you mentioned that you see Isaiah 24 as the Day of the Lord, and we see in Revelation that the kings cry out that the great day of their wrath has come, do you see these as different days? I am unable to separate the two by what I read, because what Isaiah describes in this chapter sounds like wrath to me. And one of the key points in the chapter from Isaiah is the verse below, which definitely puts us at the end.

Isaiah 24:²⁰The earth reels to and fro like a drunkard
And it totters like a shack,
For its transgression is heavy upon it,
And it will fall, never to rise again.

So what I am looking at here, or questioning, is how we can go a thousand years without the sun or moon. You had also touched on Zechariah 14, which also speaks of the same conditions concerning the sun and moon. Is there scripture that says anything about them coming back?

I am familiar with this passage from Isaiah, which addresses the sun and moon on a very specific day. Also, Zechariah in chapter 14 states, in the evening their will be light. From what I read, Zechariah is talking about what Isaiah describes below.

Isaiah 30:²⁵On every lofty mountain and on every high hill there will be streams running with water on the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall. ²⁶The light of the moon will be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun will be seven times brighter, like the light of seven days, on the day the Lord binds up the fracture of His people and heals the bruise He has inflicted.

When we consider the strength of the sun today, it already has the power to kill a person if they stay out in it too long without covering themselves from it. On this day of slaughter, it is magnified times seven, which to me offers a pretty scientific explanation as to how the Lord chooses to burn up the earth and everything on it. This sounds like a supernova type event to me, and also would explain some of the descriptions Zechariah offers in regards to the flesh rotting off of people.

There is one other verse from Isaiah 24 that I think is important in regards to all of this as well, and it speaks to the sounding of the 6th and 7th trumpets, also discussed in Revelation 18 and the fall of Babylon.

Isaiah 24: ¹⁶From the ends of the earth we hear songs, “Glory to the Righteous One,”
But I say, “Woe to me! Woe to me! Alas for me!
The treacherous deal treacherously,
And the treacherous deal very treacherously.”

I look forward to your response, God bless you.

The Day of the Lord begins at the beginning of the Millennium. It ends at the end of the Millennium! Thus, the Day will begin with the Messiah’s Coming and His rescue of Israel and the defeat of her foes.

Regarding the sun and moon, there are different reasons for the sun and moon going dark. The first reason, which is disclosed in Jeremiah, is being obscured by THICK SMOKE!

Another reason is a normal eclipse. The problem with this reason is that it cannot do both; it can’t obscure the sun and the moon at the same time. A normal eclipse is either a solar eclipse (the moon obscuring the sun from the earth’s view) or a lunar eclipse (the earth’s shadow from the sun’s light obscuring the moon from the earth’s view). Lunar eclipses ALWAYS occur during a new moon. Solar eclipses ALWAYS occur during a full moon!

Another reason is a unique, abnormal eclipse. This potentially CAN obscure both the sun and the moon if they and the eclipsing agent (such as a close, passing asteroid or comet) are at just the right angles to our view of these bodies.

However, some of these passages are NOT talking about the darkening of the sun and the moon! Isaiah 24:23 is one such passage. Yesha`yahu was NOT saying that the sun and moon would go dark; he was saying that they would be mixed up and outdone! The passage uses the commonly poetic technique of anthropomorphism. Instead of saying that the moon would be “mixed up,” the text said it would be “abashed." Instead of saying that the sun would be “outdone,” the text said it would be “ashamed.” But, if we peel away the anthropomorphism, this passage is saying that the moon would be confused in its phases; no longer would it be a simple “new moon,” “first quarter,” “full moon,” and “last quarter.” Now there would be OTHER phases involved, depending on the moon’s angle to Jerusalem from where the glory of God will shine!

If you peel away the anthropomorphism about the sun being “ashamed,” the text is not saying that the sun will fade at all; it’s saying that while the sun goes on shining as usual, compared to the brightness of the Sun of Righteousness, the Son of God, it will simply be outdone. We see this also in Revelation 1:16 and Acts 22:6-8.

wingnut- · June 2, 2015

Greetings Wingnut

From reading the scriptures throughout I see it like this with my understanding;

The survivors who will witness Christ's Coming with all his power and glory will also witness that Christ has taken over all the kingdoms of the world.

The wicked leaders of the world have been removed and their power and leadership taken off them.

Christ will replace the earth with his laws, and the law will come forth out of Jerusalem.

Every knee shall bow to Christ, and it will be spectacular.

So all those who will see the coming will be witnesses, but their next generations will not be. Children will be born and the eye witness accounts will be passed down through word of mouth and teaching.

The new generations to be born have not known Babylon. They have not experienced it. We have, but they wont. It's all a story to them passed down. They have it easy.

So even though Satan is locked up, evil has not yet been completely destroyed in the hearts of men.

As the generations go on and on, the eye witness accounts are dating and there are some men who still have evil in their hearts despite hearing the truth.

These must be sifted out and they cannot act in rebellion or war just yet because Christ guarantees a thousand years of rest from wars and violence etc.

Christ is in charge now don't forget and keeps his Word.

Hello again sister

I am unclear as to what you are saying in this segment, but it appears that you are insinuating that those born during the Millenium are ignorant of Christ? Is it not required for all the nations to come up to worship Him at the Feast of Tabernacles every year or plagues come on them? And let's not forget, if a person at 100 is thought to be a child, then it sounds like that first generation could, and should survive for the entire duration. And I say should because that first generation would have been witnesses, so according to your theory would hold fast to what they witnessed.

...Millions and millions will be converted to Christ and will take part in the second resurrection.

The millennium was not a failure or a waste of time, but God's wonderful plan, perfectly orchestrated to produce more children for himself to raise in the 2nd resurrection in preparation to dwell in the new heavens and new earth.

Where is this second resurrection found in Revelation? I only see the two mentioned below.

Revelation 20:⁴Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. ⁵The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. ⁶Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

According to what is written here, you have two resurrections in this time period. One at the beginning of the millenium, and the other at the end. Those in the first resurrection reign with Christ, those in the second do not come back to life until after the millenium. This is in opposition to your theory.

The 3 1/2 years is punishment on Israel and the world. It is not their restoration time, but a time of war and oppression from a horrible dictator who hates them because they are connected to God from old times.

But God has revealed that he will punish first then give mercy, because they are his children and children need discipline and correction when they don't listen..not just them but us too.

Jeremiah 25:29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.

I see this a bit differently from you, it appears to me that Israel has been suffering for quite some time. That took place so that a way was made for all to know Him and be His children. It appears to me that it culminates at the halfway point, which I see as the beginning of the great tribulation Jesus spoke of. This is when Jerusalem is lost, this is when the temple is defiled, this is when those in Judea that are His are told to flee. They all coincide and if you would like me to show you specific scriptures as to how I will happily oblige you. The Jeremiah passage is specific about the timing, when He begins to bring evil on the city, it is handed over to the gentiles here.

Revelation 11:²Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

wingnut- · June 2, 2015

Wingnut,

To further comment on this scripture you have given please consider this one thing;

When Jesus was caught up to God the truth was preserved amongst the apostles and the new testament scriptures were being written and sent to the churches.

During this 3 1/2 year time, the truth was preserved in writing, and could not be touched by the enemy for the truth was protected.

We cannot take this verse and put it at the end for it happened after the child was caught up to God.

Revelation 12:³And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. ¹⁴But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

For 3 1/2 years Israel is out of the serpent's reach, so what will be going on during this time?

This verse clearly shows us that Satan the dragon was thrown out of heaven after the resurrection. He no longer has access to heaven and is very wroth. He went after the woman, who is "the doctrine" of God, and tried to destroy it, but the doctrine was protected for these 3 1/2 years and taught amongst the believers, and scriptures were being recorded.

It is not speaking of Israel, but the Woman. The woman is God's doctrine. The woman's name is Zion and we follow her teachings.

Ok, well, we disagree on the identity of the woman. I am honestly at a loss here and have no idea where you are coming from, I follow Jesus' teachings. I don't know where you are getting this from in scripture at all, this female whose teachings you are following?

As for when Satan is cast out of heaven I would offer you this scripture for consideration.

Revelation 9 Then the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven which had fallen to the earth; and the key of the bottomless pit was given to him. ²He opened the bottomless pit, and smoke went up out of the pit, like the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke of the pit. ³Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power. ⁴They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. ⁵And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man. ⁶And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them.

⁷The appearance of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle; and on their heads appeared to be crowns like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. ⁸They had hair like the hair of women, and their teeth were like the teeth of lions. ⁹They had breastplates like breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots, of many horses rushing to battle. ¹⁰They have tails like scorpions, and stings; and in their tails is their power to hurt men for five months. ¹¹They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon.

¹²The first woe is past; behold, two woes are still coming after these things.

Satan is identified within this passage as being cast out of heaven here, and note that it takes place at the first woe.

Revelation 12:¹²For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.”

This chapter is not dealing with the past, this Revelation is dealing with and telling about future events.

wingnut- · June 2, 2015

Shalom, wingnut- and George.

The Day of the Lord begins at the beginning of the Millennium. It ends at the end of the Millennium! Thus, the Day will begin with the Messiah’s Coming and His rescue of Israel and the defeat of her foes.

Regarding the sun and moon, there are different reasons for the sun and moon going dark. The first reason, which is disclosed in Jeremiah, is being obscured by THICK SMOKE!

Another reason is a normal eclipse. The problem with this reason is that it cannot do both; it can’t obscure the sun and the moon at the same time. A normal eclipse is either a solar eclipse (the moon obscuring the sun from the earth’s view) or a lunar eclipse (the earth’s shadow from the sun’s light obscuring the moon from the earth’s view). Lunar eclipses ALWAYS occur during a new moon. Solar eclipses ALWAYS occur during a full moon!

Another reason is a unique, abnormal eclipse. This potentially CAN obscure both the sun and the moon if they and the eclipsing agent (such as a close, passing asteroid or comet) are at just the right angles to our view of these bodies.

However, some of these passages are NOT talking about the darkening of the sun and the moon! Isaiah 24:23 is one such passage. Yesha`yahu was NOT saying that the sun and moon would go dark; he was saying that they would be mixed up and outdone! The passage uses the commonly poetic technique of anthropomorphism. Instead of saying that the moon would be “mixed up,” the text said it would be “abashed." Instead of saying that the sun would be “outdone,” the text said it would be “ashamed.” But, if we peel away the anthropomorphism, this passage is saying that the moon would be confused in its phases; no longer would it be a simple “new moon,” “first quarter,” “full moon,” and “last quarter.” Now there would be OTHER phases involved, depending on the moon’s angle to Jerusalem from where the glory of God will shine!

If you peel away the anthropomorphism about the sun being “ashamed,” the text is not saying that the sun will fade at all; it’s saying that while the sun goes on shining as usual, compared to the brightness of the Sun of Righteousness, the Son of God, it will simply be outdone. We see this also in Revelation 1:16 and Acts 22:6-8.

Shalom retrobyter,

I don't disagree with your argument because it is unreasonable, but more because of the other information provided in the text. Such as the previous verses.

Isaiah 24:¹⁹The earth is broken asunder,

The earth is split through,

The earth is shaken violently.

²⁰The earth reels to and fro like a drunkard

And it totters like a shack,

For its transgression is heavy upon it,

And it will fall, never to rise again.

If the earth is to fall and never rise again in that day, then it must be talking about the end of the millenium, correct?

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The thousand years