another_poster Posted March 19, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 129 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2015 I am of the view that those involved in leading worship should not just be believers but also regular attenders of the service they are leading at. One off occasions is fine to have others but they should be believers. While God is talented beyond what I can imagine and does use anyone including unbelievers worship leaders are responsible for ensuring worship is possible. They should also be open to promptings from God which an unbeliever won't recognise. There is also the risk they could turn it into a performance although some churches seem to do that as well. By promptings from God I include the time when a minister stopped the church service part way through communion and told us our attitude and response was not acceptable. Having read through a few other responses after writing my reply I can see others have said it far better than I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Letting unbelievers lead a church is worship is disastrous and unbiblical. It will not bring unbelievers to Christ. Unbelievers need to shown their sinfulness and their need for Jesus through the preaching of the Word of God. That is the ONLY method God has chosen to reach unbelievers. We know exactly what God will use to reach unbelievers, and He has told us what He will use. He uses the message of the Gospel. Not only that, but when we allow unbelievers to lead in worship, we are placing them in a ministry role for which they are not suited. They cannot worship a Savior they have rejected. And when we put them in a role of ministry, we are telling them that they are okay just the way they are. The unintended effect is that sinners are made comfortable in their sin and see no reason to change. There is church in my town, Northpoint Church (not affiliated with Northpoint which is pastored by Andy Stanley), which allows sinners to be door greeters, ushers, allows them to pass out communion, and to be up on stage in the worship service. This is a church that thinks that "worship" can include pop/rock songs that include 'keepin the fath" by Billy Joel and "Don't stop Believin' by Journey. This a church that mangaged to work ACDC's "Highway to Hell" into their Sunday morning worship service the Sunday before Halloween over a year ago. Its a church that is caught up in a huge deception. That's what you get when you place unbelievers on stage leading in worship. They have no concept of what worship is. These unbelievers that serve in this church do not see themselves as sinners needing a Savior. They see themselves as good people and just as deserving of heaven and their position in the church is a stamp of approval from God. And let me tell you something.... Religious unbelievers like that are the hardest people in the world to witness to because they think they're good. And there are a lot of religious unbelievers out there. They see no reason to change and their sinful lifestyle isn't any big deal. They interpret their involvement in the ministry of the church as a stamp of approval from God and they don't need the Gospel. So, if you put an unbeliever in charge of leading worship or any aspect of worship and ministry, you are ensuring that they will remain unsaved and going to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted March 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2015 But an unbeliever may walk the walk and talk the talk yet not have a heart for God or be truly born again ....an unbeliever may be in the worship team and God opens his ears and he turns his heart to God. Who of us attended church and may have been in the choir or played an instrument and was touched by the message or by a single phrase and turned our heart to accept Jesus. I dare say there are hypocrites sitting in the pews all pious yet are no judged as one of the unbelievers. Let them come let them hear and let them accept our Lord as their Saviour. We tend to be very judgemental when we should be welcoming the sinner even if he/she sings the main anthem during the service.. Do not turn them away you may be their hope of eternity and the last one Jesus is waiting for before He calls us home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 No, that doesn't happen, littlelamb. Unbelievers reject Christ and have no place leading believers to worship the very same Jesus they have rejected as unbelievers. Leading in worship is a holy thing and unbelievers have no business leading in worship.... ever. Worship is not an evangelistic tool. Sinners are certainly welcome to the service are welcome to participate in congregational singing, but they are not to be in any place of leadership or ministry participation. Worship is a calling from God. It is not just a matter of getting up and singing and only those who are called and anointed by God to lead in worship should be in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted March 19, 2015 No, that doesn't happen, littlelamb. Unbelievers reject Christ and have no place leading believers to worship the very same Jesus they have rejected as unbelievers. Leading in worship is a holy thing and unbelievers have no business leading in worship.... ever. Worship is not an evangelistic tool. Sinners are certainly welcome to the service are welcome to participate, but they are not to be in any place of leadership. Worship is a calling from God. It is not just a matter of getting up and singing and only those who are called and anointed by God to lead in worship should be in that position. No, that doesn't happen, littlelamb. Unbelievers reject Christ and have no place leading believers to worship the very same Jesus they have rejected as unbelievers. Leading in worship is a holy thing and unbelievers have no business leading in worship.... ever. Worship is not an evangelistic tool. Amen to that! We have had worship sessions (supposed to be before a sermon), that have just carried on through the entire service because the Holy Spirit invaded our hearts to worship! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted March 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2015 Fez who do you consider the "worship team" I am not referring to the ministerial staff. I am referring to a group that may come to play music, or sing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted March 19, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 508 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 216 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/09/1985 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I think most people here will say the musicians, when you say "Worship team". My personal belief is that it is unacceptable to have people who are unregenerate worship. It is very difficult to worship freely if those who are leading the worship are not worshiping themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Littlelamb, the worship team may not be paid ministerial staff, but they are still involved in ministry and that includes the leader, singers and the musicians and even the sound guy. Everything that is done is ministry in that context. They are aiding congregation in worshipping God, which is a holy ministry. Worship is not merely playing music and singing. It is an offering to the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted March 19, 2015 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2015 I agree with Shiloh, Jade, et al. Conversations like this elucidate the growing influence of postmodern philosophy in the church - inclusion at all costs even if there are clearly delineated biblical imperatives that are counter to the ideas. A poster earlier mentioned that church is not "only for those who believe." I don't totally disagree with this, but I think that it is important that it be understood that the local congregational church is a gathering of *believers* for the primary purposes of teaching, worship and fellowship. The arguments being made here revolve around using something such as a position on a church music worship team as an evangelical tool when it is simply not at all intended for that nor is that, at all, biblical. I would go a step further in saying that the focus you see now on being "seeker friendly" (specifically with regards to the sorts of sermons that are given) is significantly weakening the theological understanding of huge swaths of Christians. Simply put, there is a constant supply of milk in churches like this, but very rarely ever any meat to speak of. As Shiloh mentioned earlier with regards to the church that was doing the secular songs, I have known of places such as this as welll. A lot of churches at this point are basically an elaborate concert followed by a short sermon followed by more concert. This seems to be targeted at youth and seems to be used as some sort of a draw to get people into the door. What gets lost in all of this is that the purpose of music ministry is worship of our Lord, not something to fill the seats. The experience of Spirit led and Spirit filled musical and lyrical worship with other believers is an incredibly moving and powerful thing, but I have not ever experienced this at a concert church. There are people there with their hands up, people jumping up and down, etc., but I have never experienced the unity and fellowship in that situation that I have experienced in others. Perhaps this is a personal flaw on my part, but, nonetheless, it is my experience. My primary concern with all of this, as mentioned earlier, is that it is yet another indicator of the world seeping into the church, postmodern philosophical tenets of inclusion to a fault and an abject disregarding of what the scripture speaks to on issues such as this, basically falling back on a "well, the Lord works in mysterious ways" sort of argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted March 19, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,798 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 No, that doesn't happen, littlelamb. Unbelievers reject Christ and have no place leading believers to worship the very same Jesus they have rejected as unbelievers. Leading in worship is a holy thing and unbelievers have no business leading in worship.... ever. Worship is not an evangelistic tool. Sinners are certainly welcome to the service are welcome to participate in congregational singing, but they are not to be in any place of leadership or ministry participation. Worship is a calling from God. It is not just a matter of getting up and singing and only those who are called and anointed by God to lead in worship should be in that position. Amen and amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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