the bride of Christ

[Openly Curious]

Yes, because the Bible says we are His body.

And just who do you believe can be and are included in His body (the Church) in this particular dispensation of grace?

1.) Jews only...

2.) Gentiles (all nation other than Jews) only...

Or..

3.) Both Jew and Gentile believers...

[Guest shiloh357]

Jews and Gentiles, of course.

[Openly Curious]

Ezra you are trying force an interpretation on to Gal. 6:16 that simply isn't there.   The Israel of God is not a reference to the church.   It is mentioned as a separate entity from, " those who walk according to this rule."    He refers to  'those who walk according to this rule'   AND Israel of God.   Those are two different group, not one and the same.   If he said, "those who walk according to this rule,  who are the Israel of God,"  you would have a case.  But you make a lot of fluffy theological rhetoric that doesn't really speak to who the Israel of God is. The Israel of God are Christian Jews and Paul makes that distinction namely because He is drawing line of demarcation between the Judaizers and Jews who are believers by faith, and are the "Israel of God."  They are true Israel cf. Rom. 9:6

 

Hi Shiloh, I know that this reply was for Ezra concerning the scripture that is in Galatians 6:16 which within it's context says...

 

Galatians 6:11-18 - Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand...As many as desire to make a fair show in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised:  only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ...For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh...But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world...For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature...(16) And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God...From henceforth let no man trouble me; for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus...Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.  Amen. 

 

In my understanding of what you have said concerning this scripture is that there are two seperate entities being mentioned in this verse  # 1) The Church and # 2) The Israel of God.    I would like for you if you would to please give me your personal difinitions in your use of the words two "groups" and two "entities" for clarification on my part in regards to your seperation of the two.  What is it that seperates the two?

 

It also mentions within the verse "And as many as walk according to this rule".  Can you tell me what that "rule" is that Apostle Paul is speaking of ?  Do you personally even know what that "rule" is ?

Hi Marilyn,

Seeing that Shiloh either overlooked my questions within this post or couldn't answer them. That being the case you have stated in this thread that you have the exact same doctrinal position as Shiloh does. Can you answer the questions I posed to Shiloh concerning the "rule".

oc

[Openly Curious]

Jews and Gentiles, of course.

Is that one Body of believers or two bodies of believers?

[Guest shiloh357]

One.  Your point?

[Openly Curious]

Is it a Jewish body or a Gentile body?

[Guest shiloh357]

It's Jesus Body.  Again, get to the point.

[Openly Curious]

Is Jesus's body a Jewish body or a Gentile body?

If it is "one" body are you acknowledging that all of the promises in scripture apply equally to "every member" of that one body?

[Marilyn C]

 

 

Ezra you are trying force an interpretation on to Gal. 6:16 that simply isn't there.   The Israel of God is not a reference to the church.   It is mentioned as a separate entity from, " those who walk according to this rule."    He refers to  'those who walk according to this rule'   AND Israel of God.   Those are two different group, not one and the same.   If he said, "those who walk according to this rule,  who are the Israel of God,"  you would have a case.  But you make a lot of fluffy theological rhetoric that doesn't really speak to who the Israel of God is. The Israel of God are Christian Jews and Paul makes that distinction namely because He is drawing line of demarcation between the Judaizers and Jews who are believers by faith, and are the "Israel of God."  They are true Israel cf. Rom. 9:6

 

Hi Shiloh, I know that this reply was for Ezra concerning the scripture that is in Galatians 6:16 which within it's context says...

 

Galatians 6:11-18 - Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand...As many as desire to make a fair show in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised:  only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ...For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh...But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world...For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature...(16) And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God...From henceforth let no man trouble me; for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus...Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.  Amen. 

 

In my understanding of what you have said concerning this scripture is that there are two seperate entities being mentioned in this verse  # 1) The Church and # 2) The Israel of God.    I would like for you if you would to please give me your personal difinitions in your use of the words two "groups" and two "entities" for clarification on my part in regards to your seperation of the two.  What is it that seperates the two?

 

It also mentions within the verse "And as many as walk according to this rule".  Can you tell me what that "rule" is that Apostle Paul is speaking of ?  Do you personally even know what that "rule" is ?

 

Hi Marilyn,

Seeing that Shiloh either overlooked my questions within this post or couldn't answer them. That being the case you have stated in this thread that you have the exact same doctrinal position as Shiloh does. Can you answer the questions I posed to Shiloh concerning the "rule".

oc

 

Hi Openly Curious,

 

I hope I don`t get `fluffy.`  I did have a chuckle at Shiloh`s expression. And as I`ve just done a few laps in the nice pool here (on holidays in Queensland)  I hope I am sharp.

 

So Gal. 6: 16 & context.

 

`But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, & I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be upon them, & mercy, & upon the Israel of God.` (Gal. 6: 14 - 16)

 

Now to me, that is speaking of two groups.

 

1. The Body of Christ - `glory in the cross...crucified to the world.`

2. The Israel of God - Those pre-cross (& overlap) who trusted, had faith for the promises that God told them. (Heb. 11) 

 

The `rule` to me is that `neither circumcision...nor uncircumcision...availeth anything.` but `glory in the cross....crucified to the world.`

 

Then Paul says to them, who walk by this rule, (B / C) `peace & mercy on them,` & then Paul adds, (in understanding) `peace & mercy..` on the Israel of God.

 

Marilyn. 

Edited March 29, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Guest shiloh357]

Jewish believers and Gentile believers are one body in Christ and all of the promises to the Church belong equally to all members of the Body.   But Jews have a unique relationship to Jesus as their Messiah that Gentiles do not possess.  Jesus' role as Messiah speaks to a unique relationship with Jesus that is not shared by Gentiles.  While Jews and Gentiles can both know Jesus as Savior,  He is Israel's Messiah. 

 

Not all promises in Scripture include Gentile believers. In fact, I can think of a lot of promises that God made to Israel that Gentile Christians probably would not want to have.