the bride of Christ

[Marilyn C]

I agree Shiloh,

 

There are different promises to Israel & other promises to the Body of Christ. For example -

 

`And these all (OT ), having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us (B/C) that they without us should not be made perfect.` (Heb. 11: 39 & 40)

 

Marilyn.

[Openly Curious]

What you are saying is that there are two classes of members in one body and these two will never be equal.

Also that...

Jesus is not the Gentile believers Messiah.

You are also saying that when people claim that the ground is level at the foot of the cross that they are wrong.

[Guest shiloh357]

I never said there was two classes of people in one body.   And yes, Jesus is not the Messiah of the Gentiles.    The Bible never says that Jesus is the Messiah of the Church.  "Messiah" is only ever used in connection with Israel.   It is never used in connection to the Church.

[Openly Curious]

I never said there was two classes of people in one body.

When you claim that certain promises only apply to certain members in this one body it makes no sense. You have to divide the body to divide the promises.

[Guest shiloh357]

Well, the land promises don't belong to the Gentiles...   and the promises about scattering the Jews to the four corners of the earth for disobedience don't apply to the Gentles

[Openly Curious]

And yes, Jesus is not the Messiah of the Gentiles.    The Bible never says that Jesus is the Messiah of the Church.  "Messiah" is only ever used in connection with Israel.   It is never used in connection to the Church.

Can you tell me what is your difinition of "Messiah"...?

[Guest shiloh357]

"Messiah" simply means, "anointed one", and pertains to Jesus reign on the throne of David in Israel.  "Messiah" doesn't mean "savior" and it isn't redemptive term.  It is far more poltical.

[Openly Curious]

Well, the land promises don't belong to the Gentiles...   and the promises about scattering the Jews to the four corners of the earth for disobedience don't apply to the Gentles

According to Romans there is one spiritual tree with natural branches and wild branches that were grafted in. The natural branches are Israel (Jews, circumcism) and the wild branches are Gentile (all other nations, uncircumcism) but they all make up one tree.

If a promise is given of an inheritance to Israel and it happens to be a peice of "land" wherever that tree goes the branches go with it. If the tree inherits the land then all the branches share in the inheritance. Or they will have to be broken or cut off then they will not be "one" tree any longer.

In your position that there is only "one body" and certain promises that only applies to certain members of that one body. That makes no more sense than to say you can have one tree where certain promises can only apply to some of the branches.

What are you suppose to have some of the branches in the "land" of Israel and the rest cut off and outside of Israel. If you cut branches off the tree trunk they will die and they are no more part of that one tree.

Is it possible that you are trying to say there is "One Body" today and it will be split into two different bodies later. If this then is your position do you have scripture to back up that position?

[Guest shiloh357]

Actually that is not true.   The Land was given ONLY to the physical descendants of Abraham.   The church is not included in that promise.    the promises made to Israel are worldly promises.   The promises made to the Church are spiritual. 

 

You are pushing the olive tree metaphor further than what it is intended to show.   You are misapplying that text.

[Openly Curious]

"Messiah" simply means, "anointed one", and pertains to Jesus reign on the throne of David in Israel.  "Messiah" doesn't mean "savior" and it isn't redemptive term.  It is far more poltical.

So in other words whenever I say He is my King I am wrong. Because Jesus is not King of all but just King of the Jews (Israel) and not Gentiles (non Jews).