Revelation 10 - the Q'uran?

[Guest shiloh357]

I am not running with logic.   You  don't just grab verses and string them together like lights on a Christmas tree and call that "interpretation.   You are taking verses unrelated to each other and mishandling them.   Similar words and phrases don't equal parallel subject matter.

 

An angel is an angel when the Bible says it is an angel.  I am going off of what the Bible says and you are relying on sloppy methods that lead to theological heresy.  If you were being led by the Lord, you would not keep trying promote nonsense.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Shiloh357,

 

So, as I said before your logic(?) says that an angel is an angel when God`s word says that it is, therefore a lamb is a lamb when God`s word says it is?

 

`And I looked & behold,...a lamb....` (Rev. 5: 6)

 

Marilyn.

[Guest shiloh357]

Again, you are comparing two different things.    Rev. 10:1 says that the angel mentioned there is of the same exact kind as the angels in Revelation 9.   That means the angel CANNOT be Jesus.   It  is not a divine entity. 

 

I am not talking about the times when the Bible metaphorically refers to Jesus a lamb.   If you  had any real skills in interpretation, you would know the difference.

[Marilyn C]

Again, you are comparing two different things.    Rev. 10:1 says that the angel mentioned there is of the same exact kind as the angels in Revelation 9.   That means the angel CANNOT be Jesus.   It  is not a divine entity. 

 

I am not talking about the times when the Bible metaphorically refers to Jesus a lamb.   If you  had any real skills in interpretation, you would know the difference.

Hi Shiloh357,

 

The word `another,` as I have already said means - `not the same,` (Dr. Young`s Concordance). I would remind you dear bro, that we are here to discuss & to build up the Body of Christ. Thus to continually be trying to pull some one down is not beneficial to you, the hearers or the person you are discussing with. Thus I think it is time we prayed -

 

`Dear Heavenly Father, I thank you for the gifting of a teacher I see in my brother, Shiloh. And I know that with that comes the refining of the character. So I pray that your Holy Spirit will reveal to Shiloh & myself the areas we need to address & humble ourselves in you. We thank you that you are making us more like unto your precious Son, Jesus.`

 

Marilyn.

[Guest shiloh357]

Actually, you don't know Greek and what you don't seem to grasp and I have been trying to explain is the lovely concept of "context."   That means that word usage trumps word meaning.   The way the word is used, particularly when it  the angel is being identified in the text as being just like the angels previously mentioned, demonstrates that the angel is an angel.  

 

And even if you could make the case that it means a different kind of angel, it still would not mean that the angel is Jesus.    When Jesus is being referenced the Bible always tells us when Jesus is referenced.   Jesus is never symbolized as an angel anywhere in the Bible, and there is no case to be made that the angel in this chapter is Jesus.   No competent Bible scholar would argue such.

 

Don't bother praying for me.   You need to pray that God gives you some discernment so that you can avoid continuing to promote heresy.   I am not trying to pull you down, but I have no respect for this nonsense  where you try to make a reference to an angel into a reference to Jesus.    If you really did go to some Bible college, you need to ask for your money back, because they clearly did not teach you much when it comes to basic principles of biblical interpretation.

[Kan]

We know that an angel signifies a message from God in Revelation.

 

If Jesus or the message of Jesus is presented in symbol as an angel, then it denotes that He identifies Himself with the message and in the message.

 

We also understand that a message is not just a note or letter given to read, in Revelation it is a movement created by the influence of the Holy Spirit on the hearts of men. For example, the seven churches receiving strength through the guidance of Christ, in a specific manner for each.

 

So then if we find an angel - a message - a movement - an affirmation by the Holy Spirit -with characteristics that resemble God or Christ in His Glory - we know that the angel fitly represents the close connection of Christ through the message.

 

Now what we may find interesting, is that these churches represent real times in the Christian era, and that real people true to God were experiencing trials which are taken care of by God as described in the messages.

 

With the message in chapter 10, the experience of God's people at that time, shows the connection to Daniel the little book, how it came to the understanding of the world at that time, which proves that the Lord was in the message, or in the angel.

 

This is not saying that God or Jesus is a created angel, but the language combines Jesus in the message or angel.

If we understood the message to the world at that time, we would fully understand that the angel represents Christ.

 

This shows us that if truth comes to the people of God and they reject it, they are rejecting God in Christ.

[MorningGlory]

This is not a game of chess, so that analogy doesn't fit   He is not glorifying an angel.   This is an angel of the same kind as the ones mentioned in chapter nine.  None of them were Jesus, either.

 

You are grabbing one verse from one context, and using it to define the same thing in a totally different context.   The rainbow around the throne of God is not the same rainbow around the head of the angel.   Your just putting forth nonsense.

 

The Bible identifies that angel as an angel and YOU are trying impose something on the text that is not there.   YOU are the one without evidence.  

 

Angels, do reflect to a limited degree, the glory of God..   Every time someone sees an angel, they are terrified.    Angels are to our eyes, being surrounded by the glory of God.  

 

But the Bible nowhere in the OT or the New Testament, ever picture Jesus as an angel.  Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus ever appear to anyone as an angel and you are helpless to provide one example, including Revelation 10.

 

An angel might resemble Jesus based on what we see, but angels themselves are always, in Scripture, very quick to distinguish themselves separately from God.  

 

You have little to no discernment in the Scriptures and are not qualified to teach given that you promote such gross heresy.

Shiloh, I know how passionate you are about Scripture and I highly respect you for that.  But I have to tell you this; speaking harshly to other believers because they disagree with you and maybe believe wrongly on some things will not win over anyone nor will it stimulate discussion.  If you come out swinging  and trampling on others you will only harden their positions.  It's just how we humans are.  

[missmuffet]

 

This is not a game of chess, so that analogy doesn't fit   He is not glorifying an angel.   This is an angel of the same kind as the ones mentioned in chapter nine.  None of them were Jesus, either.

 

You are grabbing one verse from one context, and using it to define the same thing in a totally different context.   The rainbow around the throne of God is not the same rainbow around the head of the angel.   Your just putting forth nonsense.

 

The Bible identifies that angel as an angel and YOU are trying impose something on the text that is not there.   YOU are the one without evidence.  

 

Angels, do reflect to a limited degree, the glory of God..   Every time someone sees an angel, they are terrified.    Angels are to our eyes, being surrounded by the glory of God.  

 

But the Bible nowhere in the OT or the New Testament, ever picture Jesus as an angel.  Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus ever appear to anyone as an angel and you are helpless to provide one example, including Revelation 10.

 

An angel might resemble Jesus based on what we see, but angels themselves are always, in Scripture, very quick to distinguish themselves separately from God.  

 

You have little to no discernment in the Scriptures and are not qualified to teach given that you promote such gross heresy.

Shiloh, I know how passionate you are about Scripture and I highly respect you for that.  But I have to tell you this; speaking harshly to other believers because they disagree with you and maybe believe wrongly on some things will not win over anyone nor will it stimulate discussion.  If you come out swinging  and trampling on others you will only harden their positions.  It's just how we humans are.  

 

One of the things that I like about shiloh is that he is honest and tells it like it is.We can not be wishy washy about people who are posting false doctrine.We need to let them know in a firm way that we just will not buy that garbage.Actually I respect someone who is going to stand up firm for the true literal word of God.

[MorningGlory]

 

 

This is not a game of chess, so that analogy doesn't fit   He is not glorifying an angel.   This is an angel of the same kind as the ones mentioned in chapter nine.  None of them were Jesus, either.

 

You are grabbing one verse from one context, and using it to define the same thing in a totally different context.   The rainbow around the throne of God is not the same rainbow around the head of the angel.   Your just putting forth nonsense.

 

The Bible identifies that angel as an angel and YOU are trying impose something on the text that is not there.   YOU are the one without evidence.  

 

Angels, do reflect to a limited degree, the glory of God..   Every time someone sees an angel, they are terrified.    Angels are to our eyes, being surrounded by the glory of God.  

 

But the Bible nowhere in the OT or the New Testament, ever picture Jesus as an angel.  Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus ever appear to anyone as an angel and you are helpless to provide one example, including Revelation 10.

 

An angel might resemble Jesus based on what we see, but angels themselves are always, in Scripture, very quick to distinguish themselves separately from God.  

 

You have little to no discernment in the Scriptures and are not qualified to teach given that you promote such gross heresy.

Shiloh, I know how passionate you are about Scripture and I highly respect you for that.  But I have to tell you this; speaking harshly to other believers because they disagree with you and maybe believe wrongly on some things will not win over anyone nor will it stimulate discussion.  If you come out swinging  and trampling on others you will only harden their positions.  It's just how we humans are.  

 

One of the things that I like about shiloh is that he is honest and tells it like it is.We can not be wishy washy about people who are posting false doctrine.We need to let them know in a firm way that we just will not buy that garbage.Actually I respect someone who is going to stand up firm for the true literal word of God.

 

 

As I said, bopeep, I respect Shiloh as well.  And I have no problem if he wants to  throw brick bats at ME because I love a knock down/drag out. Not everyone feels that way though. My concern is that coming down too hard on other believers won't turn them from incorrect doctrine at all but, rather, push them to either keep defending their position or to leave this forum (which has happened many times before).  I'm not talking about Shiloh here but others who have been a part of Worthy in the past. I'm all for honesty and I, personally, will speak my mind and let the chips fall where they may but rudeness is not a Christian attribute. 

[missmuffet]

 

 

 

This is not a game of chess, so that analogy doesn't fit   He is not glorifying an angel.   This is an angel of the same kind as the ones mentioned in chapter nine.  None of them were Jesus, either.

 

You are grabbing one verse from one context, and using it to define the same thing in a totally different context.   The rainbow around the throne of God is not the same rainbow around the head of the angel.   Your just putting forth nonsense.

 

The Bible identifies that angel as an angel and YOU are trying impose something on the text that is not there.   YOU are the one without evidence.  

 

Angels, do reflect to a limited degree, the glory of God..   Every time someone sees an angel, they are terrified.    Angels are to our eyes, being surrounded by the glory of God.  

 

But the Bible nowhere in the OT or the New Testament, ever picture Jesus as an angel.  Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus ever appear to anyone as an angel and you are helpless to provide one example, including Revelation 10.

 

An angel might resemble Jesus based on what we see, but angels themselves are always, in Scripture, very quick to distinguish themselves separately from God.  

 

You have little to no discernment in the Scriptures and are not qualified to teach given that you promote such gross heresy.

Shiloh, I know how passionate you are about Scripture and I highly respect you for that.  But I have to tell you this; speaking harshly to other believers because they disagree with you and maybe believe wrongly on some things will not win over anyone nor will it stimulate discussion.  If you come out swinging  and trampling on others you will only harden their positions.  It's just how we humans are.  

 

One of the things that I like about shiloh is that he is honest and tells it like it is.We can not be wishy washy about people who are posting false doctrine.We need to let them know in a firm way that we just will not buy that garbage.Actually I respect someone who is going to stand up firm for the true literal word of God.

 

 

As I said, bopeep, I respect Shiloh as well.  And I have no problem if he wants to  throw brick bats at ME because I love a knock down/drag out. Not everyone feels that way though. My concern is that coming down too hard on other believers won't turn them from incorrect doctrine at all but, rather, push them to either keep defending their position or to leave this forum (which has happened many times before).  I'm not talking about Shiloh here but others who have been a part of Worthy in the past. I'm all for honesty and I, personally, will speak my mind and let the chips fall where they may but rudeness is not a Christian attribute. 

 

I do not think it is a knock down drag out.I have seen those on other boards and what shiloh says does not come near to that.I think that if someone is posting false doctrine you need to kick Satan right in the rear and not let it go on any farther.If someone is using harsh language and calling some a bad name...yes that is wrong.I have seen you definitely speak your mind to others Morning on here.If someone continues to post false doctrine I think we need to be all over it.There are some Christian message boards Morning that Satan has taken control.Very sad to see it.And the really sad part of it is the moderators have Satan in their back pocket.