Guest shiloh357 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 God heals based solely on his sovereign will to do so. My faith doesn't impact that. My faith relates to this solely on the basis that my faith in God resides in the knowledge that he wants the best for me and that he has a greater purpose in not healing me. He sees the big picture and there are sick people God uses to show his power through in ways that healing them never would have shown. Real faith is seen when you can still love and trust God when he doesn't fix everything, when the healing never comes, when you have to walk through the dark times in life. Is Jesus enough without anything else? That's the real test of faith. It's walking in the knowledge that even if you don't get healed, Jesus is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted May 27, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2015 Just wanted to tell you my personal experience that's all. If God did it for me through my faith in Him He can do it for you too. Although true that sometimes the Lord uses sick people as a testimony to others, but if you are sick don't keep telling yourself that it's the way you have to remain. I know what you mean about hard times, I walked through them for 40 years trying to keep the faith and loving the Lord. and ever since I've surrendered to Him completely, these dark times are ove. I am healed and renewed through His Holy Spirit and blessed with a wonderful life. Thank you Lord Jesus for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 The worst thing anyone can do is base their theology on someone else's experience. God healing one person is no indication that he will heal someone else. We don't appeal to God on that basis. It's not a matter anyone claiming that if they are sick they have to remain that way. It is a matter of simply understanding that God is sovereign and if he chooses not to heal you, then He will give you the peace and joy to accept that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted May 27, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes, God allows things to happen according to his Will, but word of faith people believe that through their words, they have power over nature and can rebuke the weather conditions... I don't believe in "the power of healing." I believe in the power of God to heal if it is his will. The problem is that the healers claim it is always God's power to heal. I don't believe in healing the way the Charismatics do. God heals or not based on his sovereign will, not on the basis of our faith or lack thereof. One thing interesting, the disciples were given all power to heal the sick and over all the works of the enemy. They came across a boy who was epileptic and could not cast it out. Jesus rebuked their unbelief and healed the boy. Matthew 17:14 And when they had come to the multitude, a man came to Him, kneeling down to Him and saying, 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and suffers severely; for he often falls into the fire and often into the water. 16 So I brought him to Your disciples, but they could not cure him.” 17 Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me.” 18 And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?” 20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. 21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.” With this passage, was it God's will to heal the boy? Yes, could the disciples do it? no. Why? Unbelief. Then Jesus makes clear that faith speaks to the mountain and the mountain moves and says "nothing will be impossible for you." As far as the practice of praying for the sick, I found that the ones who usually see breakthrough with healing are the ones praying for healing. I also know that many people I've seen healed, if no one prayed for them, they wouldn't be healed. God reveals His will through His children. It's always God's power to heal and healing the sick is a practice in the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted May 27, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2015 The worst thing anyone can do is base their theology on someone else's experience. God healing one person is no indication that he will heal someone else. We don't appeal to God on that basis. It's not a matter anyone claiming that if they are sick they have to remain that way. It is a matter of simply understanding that God is sovereign and if he chooses not to heal you, then He will give you the peace and joy to accept that decision. It wasn't just me that He healed Shiloh, He also healed my mom from cancer the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I have seen people pray for years to get healed and it never happens. I have seen people who were not expecting to get healed suddenly get healed of diabetes, cancer... I have an uncle who was in stage IV liver cancer and within a week it was gone. He wasn't praying for it to get removed; he was just praying for the grace to endure it to the end. So God heals those who were not expecting it and he doesn't heal those who were believing for healing. So this stuff about people who don't get healed didn't ask for healing or believe for it is false. There are countless examples that disprove any such claims. It is not always God's will to heal people and I know a lot of folks who bought into that doctrinal clap trap who ended up losing family members to diseases when everyone was praying including the person needing the healing. The passage in Matt 17 is not doctrinal. To take a passage like that and try to make a doctrine and assume that Jesus did in the Bible is what he will do today is presumptuous at best. Narratives are stories and a recollection of recorded events. It is really, really bad when we start assuming that what happened then is what will happen now, if we just have enough faith. A lot of people have bought into that and a lot of people have been disappointed in the end when they didn't get healing they believed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 27, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,262 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,991 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2015 Shiloh, I do believe that the healing in the Bible was not for the sake of the sick, but to further the gospel..... The healing times I have seen in the world today are the same..... I don't say it can't happen, but it doesn't seem that God heals just as a personal favor to us.... I don't know why, but to me reality seems to be that way from what I personally have seen.... When I asked for my wife to be healed he said no..... and when I got ugly and demanded to know why he told me it was none of my business and to get over it.... She is functional after 25 years so he did do something to her, but complete healing...... no. And I still don't know why, but I have gotten over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted May 27, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 I have seen people pray for years to get healed and it never happens. I have seen people who were not expecting to get healed suddenly get healed of diabetes, cancer... I have an uncle who was in stage IV liver cancer and within a week it was gone. He wasn't praying for it to get removed; he was just praying for the grace to endure it to the end. So God heals those who were not expecting it and he doesn't heal those who were believing for healing. So this stuff about people who don't get healed didn't ask for healing or believe for it is false. There are countless examples that disprove any such claims. It is not always God's will to heal people and I know a lot of folks who bought into that doctrinal clap trap who ended up losing family members to diseases when everyone was praying including the person needing the healing. The passage in Matt 17 is not doctrinal. To take a passage like that and try to make a doctrine and assume that Jesus did in the Bible is what he will do today is presumptuous at best. Narratives are stories and a recollection of recorded events. It is really, really bad when we start assuming that what happened then is what will happen now, if we just have enough faith. A lot of people have bought into that and a lot of people have been disappointed in the end when they didn't get healing they believed for. "people who don't get healed didn't ask for healing" Never said that. The passage in Matt 17 is not doctrinal. So we shouldn't get our doctrine off of what Jesus taught? Your saying that because of your experience, that passage isn't relevant today. Shouldn't we judge our experiences with the bible? If the Red Letters contradicts our doctrine, may be it's our doctrine that needs to change. This passage shows a principle that fits with many things Jesus said and taught on faith. That is also the only account where prayer didn't see breakthrough in the Gospels. The problem is Jesus made some radical claims and it's a challenge to believe Him. He again, and again said that we can ask anything in His name and receive it. John 14:12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. John 15:7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. Luke 11:9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Mark 11:24 Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them. And so you don't think I'm saying name it claim it. 1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment James 4:2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. I've seen both sides of this, I know many who were healed without anyone praying over them and many more who were healed through the laying on of hands. I've also seen many who had great faith go down with sickness, but I've seen many more who were healed. I've prayed for many that didn't get healed, and many who have. There are also those cases that those who have been getting prayer for 40 years all of a sudden see breakthrough. This is something I wrestle with daily and those red letters are what I put my faith in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted May 27, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2015 Amen Joshua preach the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 No Joshua I didn't say we should not get out doctrine out of what Jesus taught. I am saying that Matt. 17 isn't a doctrinal passage. It is a narrative. It is telling us a sequence of events. People wrongly take passages like that make a doctrine out of it which is why we have people today thinking, "if Jesus did it for that person, He will do it for me." And then they end up shipwrecked and disappointed when Jesus doesn't heal them. Anyone can string a bunch of verses together like lights on a Christmas tree and make the Bible say what they want it to say. Many of those passages are saying what you appear to be assigning to them. Yes we can ask anything in Name and he will do it, but that is conditional. The operative phrase is, "in his name." It isn't a blank check. And it has to be according to his will, and it means we have to know his will in order to pray in agreement with it. Again, there is no promise from God that healing is always his will. Just like there is nothing in the Bible says we can speak to the weather and stop storms and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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