Divine Healing

[Pamelasv]

Ok. This has been my own personal experience some years ago. I didn't ask for it either. A couple of times the Holy Spirit moved me to lay hands and pray for two people in my church and they got healed. These people also believed in that stuff and had no qualms. Of course being around other people that needed healing, did God move me? No. Did I ever try just to test it out? Yes. IMO God is sovereign in all this. People go to healing ministries and not everyone gets healed. Why? Don't know. Some don t really want it. Some people heart isn't right ( I hear that unforgivenss is a biggie). This is all I really am aware of on the subject. In other countries rather than america, like in third world countries, they see much more of healing and miracles. Some people are only half hearted following God. I was on a state of bedridden 15 years ago which made me seek out the Lord. He certainly used it for me to seek for Him.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Pamelasv

[Guest shiloh357]

Retro,

 

Your use of I John 2 and its description of the anointing we have is demonstrates the need for better hermeneutics.   Your response to the fact that we do not have the prophetic anointing like Elijah is to counter with a passage that is describes the anointing  we have that brings us the assurance that we are indeed in Christ.

 

John's point in the passage you cited is, among other things, to show the difference between false believers who were "antichrists"  according to John vs. the true believers who have the "unction" or inner anointing that assures them they belong to God.

 

I John was written so that the early church would be able to know the difference between false professors who were wolves in sheep's clothing vs. the authentic followers of Jesus.

Edited June 22, 2015 by shiloh357
Removed personal attack -- this isn't about "winning" a debate, but about sharpening each other as Iron sharpens Iron.

[FresnoJoe]

You need to apply the Scriptures in a way that isn't so sloppy.... 

 

 

Beloved

 

Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise. Jeremiah 17:14

 

Believing That Believe

 

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. John 14:10

 

Means Just That, Believe

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

 

I Maintain That The Power Of God

 

For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness? 1 Corinthians 4:20-21

 

Still Flows Through HIS Disciples, Especially In These Wicked Times

 

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. Mark 16:17-20

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.

Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.

For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh. Proverbs 4:20-22

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

Joe, this has been made clear to you more than once:   No one is discounting that God heals and does so miraculously.   You keep trying to refute me on something that I am not disputing with anyone about.

 

The issue is whether or not God will heal 100% of the time.

 

Try to address the issue at hand.

[FresnoJoe]

address the issue at hand....

 

 

The Issue At Hand Clearly Still Remains, Does The Same Holy Spirit

With The Same Mandate The Apostles Had From Christ

Still Live And Work In And Through Believers

Around The World And In The Church

With Divine Healing,

Even Today?

 

Get It?

 

~

 

You need to apply the Scriptures in a way that isn't so sloppy.... 

 

 

Beloved

 

Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise. Jeremiah 17:14

 

Believing That Believe

 

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. John 14:10

 

Means Just That, Believe

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

 

I Maintain That The Power Of God

 

For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness? 1 Corinthians 4:20-21

 

Still Flows Through HIS Disciples, Especially In These Wicked Times

 

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. Mark 16:17-20

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.

Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.

For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh. Proverbs 4:20-22

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

The answer to your question is, "no." At least not in the way it was in the ministry of Jesus and the aposltes.  The ministry of Jesus and the apostles were unique due to the fact that the supernatural activity in their ministry was meant to confirm that they were in fact apostles chosen by the Lord.  That is why they were able to do many of the same miracles that Jesus did. 

 

If the argument is that this for all believers, then why weren't the masses of believers in Acts running around performing these miracles.  The argument that ALL of us are to be experiencing the same supernatural ministry results as the apostles is first of all refuted by the book of Acts which shows that only the apostles and those set apart for special ministries like Stephen and Phillip were empowered by God and then only at certain times.   Paul didn't heal everyone he knew was sick.

 

Just as in Acts, so today, we don't see the masses running around raising the dead and healing every one.    What we see a lot of today is a lot tom foolery and false teachers and fake "healers"  making false claims.   For every one person God genuinely heals there are many believers that he doesn't heal and they die without being healed.

[FresnoJoe]

The answer to your question is, "no." 

At least not in the way it was in the ministry of Jesus and the apostles.

 

~

 

Beloved, Unless One Uses A Crayola On Their Bible To Scribble Out "Believeth"

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that Believeth On Me Is Me Or One Of The 12 Apostles + 1, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

 

And Adds In Apostles Plus Saul, Jesus Clearly Says Otherwise

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

 

And Although I Agree With You On Luther And His Abominable Hatred Of The Jew,

Not All Luther Said Was Wrong

 

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. James 5:14-15

 

In The Pagan Servitude of the Church, Luther dismisses Extreme Unction as a sacrament, but he does comment on the need to pray for the sick. He writes,

 

“But in Extreme Unction as practiced in our day, there is no prayer of faith. No one prays in faith over the sick, confidently expecting their restoration. Yet James describes that kind of faith in this passage (in James 5)…. There is no doubt at all that if, at the present day, this kind of prayer were offered over the sick, i.e., by the older and graver men, men saintlike and full of faith, as many as we desired would be healed. Nothing is impossible for faith.”  [Martin Luther: Selection from His Writings, John Dillenberger, ed. (New York: Anchor Books, 1962), 354.]

 

This passage from Luther almost reads like a prophecy of the healing revivals that would cover the globe from the late 19th century to the present day, as people full of faith pray for the physical recovery of the sick. Faith is limitless in its pursuit of the kingdom of God, as Luther himself proclaims, “nothing is impossible for faith.” May this encourage the weary and fainthearted not to allow their confidence in God to wane. Continue to pray with faith and expectant hope no matter what we see. Romans 5:5 says, “And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.” Hope does not disappoint because God’s will is true, no matter what the earthly facts may convey to us. http://hopefaithprayer.com/martin-luthers-call-for-the-faith-healer/

 

So Brother Preach The Word

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

 

And Forget The Teachings Of Those Unbelievers

 

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.

 

My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

 

My tears have been my meat day and night, while they continually say unto me, Where is thy God? Psalms 42:1-3

 

And Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

When I remember these things, I pour out my soul in me: for I had gone with the multitude,

 

I went with them to the house of God, with the voice of joy and praise, with a multitude that kept holyday.

 

Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God:

 

for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance. Psalms 42:4-5

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

Joe,

 

We do not see the average Christian in the book of Acts conducting healing ministries.  The only miracles that were performed in the book of Acts were either by the apostles or two of the deacons.   We simply don't see this ministry taking place with anyone else in the NT.

 

It's not a matter of taking a crayon to the Bible.   Some of Jesus ministry directives were just for the disciples/apostles and not for the church in general.  Not every verse is for all people for all time.  Not that it isn't relevant, but it's not always applicable.

 

there are many faithful Christians who pray for healing an don't receive it.   Joni Erikson Tada is a good example of someone the Lord has used in spite of being quadriplegic.

[FresnoJoe]

We do not see the average Christian in the book of Acts conducting healing ministries.

 

 

Beloved, Do Bible Believers Ever Look To The Actions Of Men

 

Fools because of their transgression, and because of their iniquities, are afflicted.

Their soul abhorreth all manner of meat; and they draw near unto the gates of death.

Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saveth them out of their distresses. Psalms 107:17-19

 

And Then Change The Words Of God

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John  14:12

 

Because Of Their

 

Quicken me after thy lovingkindness; so shall I keep the testimony of thy mouth. Psalms 119:88

 

Practices?

 

For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalms 119:89

 

Fool I May Be Yet,

 

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

 

I Think Not

 

~

 

Be Blessed

 

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11

 

Beloved Of The KING

 

Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. 1 Thessalonians 5:16-22

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

 

~

 

My Prayer Of Faith In The Words Of God (WoF)

 

Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die:

Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:

Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain. Proverbs 30:7-9

 

And Jesus Has Never Let Me Go So Far As To Remove All Hope In HIM, Never~!

 

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psalms 23:3

 

And I Love HIM So

 

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. Psalms 42:1

[Guest shiloh357]

Joe the point is that the apostles didn't teach the believers to have healing ministries in Acts.  I am not appealing to men, I am appealing to the record of Scripture.  The ONLY supernatural events took place at the hands of those chosen by God to perform them, not the general Christian populace.   Like it or not, none of the epistles admonish the believers to go around healing everyone, nor do they promise healing for everyone who wants.  

 

You can keep peppering me with the same old verses over and over, but the book of Acts demonstrates that your handling of those scriptures is incorrect.

 

If you are going after the WoF  camp, you are wallowing in false teaching.